Deca Nandrolone As A Bio Identical Form Of Trt

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Cameron

Cameron

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The anabolic index is typically used to refer to the anabolic/androgenic ratio and favors muscles more than anything else. However, androgenic steroid tend to have organ-anabolic effects as well and since drostanolone is a DHT isomer it may also have the kidney, heart, spleen, liver, etc benefits seen with DHT/androsterone.
Does Mexico have a pure dht powder product? I recall Danny saying he may have legal access to such a powder and used in tocopherol would be safe. Safe to see how bloods levels and tissue levels could increase with a bio identical powder of dht.
 
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TheBeard

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Ester based testosterone has many issues. Dose at one time 100-200 mgs in a shot 20 or more times the amount a body produces a day. aromatizing effects at the dose. Esters and roller coaster of blood levels . Toxic oil. Toxic additives oh and lastly is not bio identical. test e being closest with availability of 70% useable. If dhea can be absorbed and converted to necessary hormones testosterone from what I’ve seen would do very much the same. What mechanism is there to actually break down any oral hormone if enough is ingested. Even 2 mgs of dhea has been seen in blood levels of oral supplementing. Oral dosing may not be a one size fits all just like thyroid or anything else depending on current blood levels or metabolism. If shbg is high in someone of course they wouldn’t notice as much extra t as someone using more oral t with lower shbg

Good luck taking testosterone base 3 times a day to achieve stable levels.

Propionate once a day is a good compromise and totally fine healthwise.

The problem are the oils used in the injectable forms, not the esters
 

haidut

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Does Mexico have a pure dht powder product? I recall Danny saying he may have legal access to such a powder and used in tocopherol would be safe. Safe to see how bloods levels and tissue levels could increase with a bio identical powder of dht.

I have no idea, maybe you should ask him as he lives there.
 
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Cameron

Cameron

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Good luck taking testosterone base 3 times a day to achieve stable levels.

Propionate once a day is a good compromise and totally fine healthwise
You could agree that with taking t3 throughout the day I don’t see it being a huge inconvenience if that was e
I have no idea, maybe you should ask him as he lives there.
i tried just seeing.
 

Nigluva

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Beyond testosterone cypionate: evidence behind the use of nandrolone in male health and wellness

the body also produces trace amount of nandrolone. Anyone have experience in use of this drug for hormone replacement. Also deca is a very strong anti serotonin

@Hans @haidut

There are studies easily accessible which show much more cardiovascular damage with nandrolone than testosterone, for example. There are also issues with how it alters neurotransmitters with relatively lasting changes to brain function. That paper you linked I remember reading and thinking how shilly it comes off, it isn't much on research but more of a marketing thing for their form of hrt.
 

Nigluva

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Nandrolone solo is given to HIV/AIDs patients and is tremendously effective with virtually no side effects. It aromatises at a rate of 1/5 of testosterone. It lowers prolactin, while testosterone increases it. It’s incredibly dry, unlike testosterone which tends to cause water retention. Libido is insatiable and commonly complained about by wife’s/partners of deca solo users.
I’ve been taking nandrolone solo many years. It’s not well understood in the bodybuilding community because they tend to want to run testosterone alongside due to outdated broscience, which leads to issues as they potentiate each other’s estrogenic side effects which gives rise to prolactin and hence the deca-**** described above.

However sans testosterone, nandrolone is no doubt the greatest steroid in existence and as described above was what the golden era bodybuilders ran almost exclusively. Compare them to bodybuilders of today and notice the difference in hair/skin quality. No acne, no hairloss, no wrinkles, etc.
Nandrolone is pro-collagen, testosterone/trenbolone/all the other garbage bodybuilders are running today ruin collagen hence why they look 40 by their mid twenties and injuries are so common.

It does though have some issues:
1) dopamine modulation - unsure how to remedy effectively
2) cortisol inhibition - remedied with periods of lower doses/coming off
3) calcium deposits - remedied with 400-800mcg vitamin k mk7

Do you have kidney function checked, among other things?
For point #3 I see taeian clark also said same thing,but it is a big leap to say just taking k2 form you reccomend will prevent issues. Iirc there is more to cardiovascular damage than just calcium deposits.
In any case i would be interested to hear your dose and cycle length. Alot of ppl talked about the nandrolone only protocols since taeian pushed it but at the same time i saw many claims but only a handful of really impressive transformations.
 

Nigluva

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It doesn’t aromatize much by itself which requires high doses to get enough E2 and that will lead to Androgenic side effects wherever there’s little 5ar activity, doesn’t form DHT which is bad news for the brain, disrupts dopamine/serotonin ratio way too much, destroys LH genes (in case someone wants to cycle off... good luck), the list goes on. A month only of Deca at 900 mg/wk halved my eGFR, prolactin and e2 (and libido) were alright but still a bit too low, sleep was awful, PCT was a nightmare.

Primobolan was a much better and safer steroid widely used by golden era BBers. Derek from moreplatemoredates recently discussed on his YouTube channel that women have been trialing 1200mg of primo only for up to 16 weeks and didn’t report crazy sides (for the doses used). Even better, Primo is the least disruptive steroid regarding Cortisol proper metabolism and clearance which is crucial at the glucoreceptor+mineraloreceptor levels - think no electrolyte imbalance and no cardiac sides at least from that angle.

Look at table 1 here: Anabolic Androgenic Steroid Fluoxymesterone Inhibits 11β-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase 2–Dependent Glucocorticoid Inactivation

Test Primo is a much more reasonable stack for blasting and cruising.

Bottom line I think this publication was trash and stems from the dumb bias that DHT is bad and anything that doesn’t reduce into it is superior to test. Not how it works

Anabolic steroid associated to physical training induces deleterious cardiac effects. - PubMed - NCBI

It seems the heart hypertrophy effects for nandrolone can be at least partly prevented with blood pressure medication.

Can you give me the rundown on that table 1 and what it means in that halotestin study? I do not understand what the significance of the data is.

Do you have experience taking aas?
 
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Nandrolone is 19-nortestosterone and is an "estrane" (C18) steroid. It is on the pathway of T to estrogen. Not only is it aromatized more easily than T, but nandrolone itself has estrogenic properties at ER due to the C18 core. Nandrolone's "anabolic" effects are likely almost entirely anti-catabolic by blocking cortisol. It is also a progestin. So, you can achieve more safely the same (and likely better) effects by combining progesterone (an antiglucocorticoid progestin as a replacement of nandrolone) and some DHEA and T. Actually, you can probably get the same effects as nandrolone by using ONLY progesterone+DHEA and stay entirely in the OTC realm.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/structural-requirements-for-an-optimal-anti-catabolic-steroid.20108/

The only synthetic AAS I would ever consider using are the DHT derivatives drostanolone and maybe stenbolone. The former is one of the few AAS shown to have beneficial effects on the liver while nandrolone is considered problematic for liver even by bodybuilders.
Influence of nandrolone decanoate administration on serum lipids and liver enzymes in rats
The Anabolic Androgenic Steroid Nandrolone Decanoate Disrupts Redox Homeostasis in Liver, Heart and Kidney of Male Wistar Rats
[Experimental study of an antitumor preparation proloteston]. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Prolotestone [drostanolone] treatment in the dose of 14 mg once in two weeks produced a high antiblastogenic effect in rats with hormone-dependent cancer of the mammary gland induced by dimethylbenz(a)anthracene. It was shown in tests involving the use of a number of transplantable tumors that prolotestone potentiates the antitumor effect of sarcolysin and mitigates its untoward side-effects. It was shown in tests involving the use of a number of transplantable tumors that prolotestone potentiates the antitumor effect of sarcolysin and mitigates its untoward side-effects. The preparation is practically non-toxic, possesses a high anabolic index, has a beneficial effect on hepatic function and lowers the glucocorticoid function of the adrenals. It is thought that application of the drug should not be limited to the treatment of breast cancer."

but how much progesterone can you reasonably take? Nandrolone dose of say 500mg per week, how much progesterone + dhea do you need to match that?
 

golder

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For those of us on TRT, thus a shutdown HPTA axis, what are some peoples opinions on some of the safer compounds that we can add on for a short period a few times a year to help assist in a muscle/bone anabolism context?
 

Matestube

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For those of us on TRT, thus a shutdown HPTA axis, what are some peoples opinions on some of the safer compounds that we can add on for a short period a few times a year to help assist in a muscle/bone anabolism context?
Pure DHT, pure progesterone.
Anything else is playing russian roulette as they are synthetic and have no safety track record.

If you want to go the synthetic route, here are options in order from safest to unsafe:

- proviron
- masteron
- primobolan
- trestolone
- nandrolone
- trenbolone
 

golder

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Pure DHT, pure progesterone.
Anything else is playing russian roulette as they are synthetic and have no safety track record.

If you want to go the synthetic route, here are options in order from safest to unsafe:

- proviron
- masteron
- primobolan
- trestolone
- nandrolone
- trenbolone
Cheers.
DHT is already through the roof due to using cream and the 5ar presence in the skin, so not sure if DHT base would be beneficial here.
I sprinkle in progesterone/pregnenolone/DHEA in small amounts throughout the week.
No stenbolone?
 
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Cameron

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Cheers.
DHT is already through the roof due to using cream and the 5ar presence in the skin, so not sure if DHT base would be beneficial here.
I sprinkle in progesterone/pregnenolone/DHEA in small amounts throughout the week.
No stenbolone?
Where do you get dht cream?
 

golder

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Where do you get dht cream?
Test cream. Because it’s applied topically, the high presence of 5ar enzyme in the skin causes a large conversion into DHT.
There is a topical DHT cream called Andractim that I haven’t used.
 

Gerard1989

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It doesn’t aromatize much by itself which requires high doses to get enough E2 and that will lead to Androgenic side effects wherever there’s little 5ar activity, doesn’t form DHT which is bad news for the brain, disrupts dopamine/serotonin ratio way too much, destroys LH genes (in case someone wants to cycle off... good luck), the list goes on. A month only of Deca at 900 mg/wk halved my eGFR, prolactin and e2 (and libido) were alright but still a bit too low, sleep was awful, PCT was a nightmare.

Primobolan was a much better and safer steroid widely used by golden era BBers. Derek from moreplatemoredates recently discussed on his YouTube channel that women have been trialing 1200mg of primo only for up to 16 weeks and didn’t report crazy sides (for the doses used). Even better, Primo is the least disruptive steroid regarding Cortisol proper metabolism and clearance which is crucial at the glucoreceptor+mineraloreceptor levels - think no electrolyte imbalance and no cardiac sides at least from that angle.

Look at table 1 here: Anabolic Androgenic Steroid Fluoxymesterone Inhibits 11β-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase 2–Dependent Glucocorticoid Inactivation

Test Primo is a much more reasonable stack for blasting and cruising.

Bottom line I think this publication was trash and stems from the dumb bias that DHT is bad and anything that doesn’t reduce into it is superior to test. Not how it works

Anabolic steroid associated to physical training induces deleterious cardiac effects. - PubMed - NCBI
Any idea why deca messes with your sleep? I have the same experience. Can't stay asleep more than 3 hours at a time when I'm on it.
 

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