Dave from Oregon - Minimalist Diet

[DaveFoster]

My name's Dave, and I'm an 18-year old who is fascinated by all kinds of diets and eating plans for achieving optimal health. Most recently, I have been exploring the Raw Paleo community, especially those who advocate a diet exclusively composed of raw organ meats and raw suet. I came across Peat about a month ago and decided to take the plunge, and I'm glad that I did.

For the first time in my life, I feel like I have a stable energy profile, although I still experience some degree of fluctuation. At the moment, my goal is to design a diet that is affordable and optimal, while being very minimalist and effortless to maintain. Ideally, I would like to avoid supplements if at all possible, although ergogenics such as caffeine are permissible when needed. I also take 10,000 IU of Vitamin D every other day or so.

My current eating plan is as follows:

1% milk - 1 gallon (1500 calories)
OJ - 48 oz (660 calories)
a single carrot (30 calories)
maple syrup - 3 TBSP (150 calories)
coconut oil - 2 TBSP (230 calories)
gelatin - 2 TBSP (50 calories)

TOTAL: 149g P 383g C 65g F - approx. 2700 calories

Height: 5'9"
Weight: 170 lbs
Activity: Intense weight training x4/week + cardio x1/week

I hit all of the RDA's except for iron (ideal), Vitamin E (acceptable due to low PUFA), Vitamin K (acceptable as RDA is skewed in favor of K1), and niacin (not sure about this one). What is an affordable and easily consumable source of niacin and how does my food plan look like? Should I worry about the tryptophan content of the milk? I'm glad to be a member of the forum, and I hope I can be a resource and also learn from everybody here.

 

[XPlus]

Welcome.

Diet seems okay.
A little too liquidish but if doesn't hurt your metabolism, then you should be fine.
Feel free to eat more carbs if you feel like.
I'd add occasional shellfish for trace minerals and some liver for vitamins.
Coffee for niacin.

As for exercise, it isn't usually advisable to build stress over stress.
I'd make full recovery before exercising another day and that should offset any accumulated sleep and energy requirements, sore muscles, inflammation and pain.

There was a very recent post about tryptophan here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7219&hilit=tryptophan

You'll find your answer there.

 

[mt_dreams]

Liver & tuna will also work for niacin, though not sure how they would fit into your minimalist diet. If taking supplements orally is not your thing, you could always take niacinamide topically.

As it goes, the more protein you eat, the more tryptophan you will take in. Have you tried seeing how your body responds to a 20% reduction in protein, and an increase in carb intake? There a good quick read called 'how much protein' by brad pillion, that may change your mind on your current protein intake. If you don't want to lower your protein, but want to lower your trypt, switch in more gelatin for some of the dairy protein. The body protects against some of the trypt in milk, so if you're healthy & digest milk well, you might not be converting much of the trypt into serotonin.

 

[Brian]

Good choice not going on the raw organ meat and suet diet. Peat's principles get better results and are much more enjoyable to something that dogmatic.

Most people do not usually do well on that much liquid, but that is usually because they are hypothyroid to begin with and their lifestyle does not involve much sweating. I would guess that you are not at 18, but I would still pay attention to your pulse and temperature to make sure that this high volume of liquid is not lowering your metabolism.

There are lots of ways to apply Peat's suggestions. A high milk diet is not the only way. A minimalist diet is also not necessary, especially if you aren't trying to lose a lot of fat. Some people who are in good function do well with more fat in their diet from whole milk, cream, butter, meat, egg yolks etc. Some people also do well on potatoes or white rice for extra carbs. Supplementing magnesium is usually beneficial when one is consuming a lot of calcium.

But if you are in excellent health nothing will put muscle on you faster than drinking as much milk as your metabolism can handle while doing some strength training. So if that volume of milk works for you, by all means chug away if extreme muscle gain during your late teens and early 20's is something you'd like.

I would be more cautious about your vitamin D supplementation. It's a little controversial. Probably better to start with supplementing fat solubles in a little more balanced ratio like in Estroban (A: 5000 IU, D:1000 IU, E:100 IU, K2: 2mg). If you can get daily sun for at least 20 minutes, I would recommend that over vitamin D supplementation.

Throw in some raw or lightly cooked egg yolks into your diet for a very pro-hormone effect.

The point of Peat's ideas for me isn't to restrict my diet to just a few foods at all times, but to know how to turn the foods available or offered to me into something that will be the most pro-metabolic. So personally if I were in your position at 18 years old, I would just get familiar with the foods available to me that are pro-metabolic and just have fun eating them to taste in any way that's enjoyable without calculating too much how it all looks on cronometer. I would probably also be downing that gallon of milk. Cheers!

 

[Zachs]

Good luck drinking a gallon of milk a day! A simpler alternative I would recommend is a half gallon of milk, 6-12oz of ruminent meat, a pack of oysters, 2-3oz of cheese and the 1-2 litre of juice. Add honey, salt, coffee as supplements, cook with butter and co.

 

[DaveFoster]

Welcome.

Diet seems okay.
A little too liquidish but if doesn't hurt your metabolism, then you should be fine.
Feel free to eat more carbs if you feel like.
I'd add occasional shellfish for trace minerals and some liver for vitamins.
Coffee for niacin.

As for exercise, it isn't usually advisable to build stress over stress.
I'd make full recovery before exercising another day and that should offset any accumulated sleep and energy requirements, sore muscles, inflammation and pain.

There was a very recent post about tryptophan here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7219&hilit=tryptophan

You'll find your answer there.

Thank you for the link. It was very helpful, and I think that if I mix milk and gelatin, then I will have absolutely no problem with the tryptophan, as the milk already offsets the effect as is. I did zero-carb for a while, so I'm reluctant to add in more sugars, but I've been reading Peat's writings concerning diabetes and I will definitely give it a shot.

Definitely going to use mussels for manganese instead of maple syrup, as I just found that the latter costs $20 for a small bottle. I do plan on adding liver, but I'm a bit concerned with the high levels of vitamin A, as I already get much from the fortified milk.

I keep my workouts short, so I usually don't have any problem recovering, but I definitely acknowledge the possibility of overtraining.

Liver & tuna will also work for niacin, though not sure how they would fit into your minimalist diet. If taking supplements orally is not your thing, you could always take niacinamide topically.

As it goes, the more protein you eat, the more tryptophan you will take in. Have you tried seeing how your body responds to a 20% reduction in protein, and an increase in carb intake? There a good quick read called 'how much protein' by brad pillion, that may change your mind on your current protein intake. If you don't want to lower your protein, but want to lower your trypt, switch in more gelatin for some of the dairy protein. The body protects against some of the trypt in milk, so if you're healthy & digest milk well, you might not be converting much of the trypt into serotonin.

Great advice, and I definitely am aware of the lower protein requirements than purported by the fitness community. 2 g/lb or 1.5 g/lb is far too high, and even 1g/lb is hardly necessary. I shoot for .82 g/lb of lean body mass. I might lower my milk to 3/4 gallon, as I still get my nutrients, but I can fit in more fat and carbs with less protein.

Good choice not going on the raw organ meat and suet diet. Peat's principles get better results and are much more enjoyable to something that dogmatic.

Most people do not usually do well on that much liquid, but that is usually because they are hypothyroid to begin with and their lifestyle does not involve much sweating. I would guess that you are not at 18, but I would still pay attention to your pulse and temperature to make sure that this high volume of liquid is not lowering your metabolism.

There are lots of ways to apply Peat's suggestions. A high milk diet is not the only way. A minimalist diet is also not necessary, especially if you aren't trying to lose a lot of fat. Some people who are in good function do well with more fat in their diet from whole milk, cream, butter, meat, egg yolks etc. Some people also do well on potatoes or white rice for extra carbs. Supplementing magnesium is usually beneficial when one is consuming a lot of calcium.

But if you are in excellent health nothing will put muscle on you faster than drinking as much milk as your metabolism can handle while doing some strength training. So if that volume of milk works for you, by all means chug away if extreme muscle gain during your late teens and early 20's is something you'd like.

I would be more cautious about your vitamin D supplementation. It's a little controversial. Probably better to start with supplementing fat solubles in a little more balanced ratio like in Estroban (A: 5000 IU, D:1000 IU, E:100 IU, K2: 2mg). If you can get daily sun for at least 20 minutes, I would recommend that over vitamin D supplementation.

Throw in some raw or lightly cooked egg yolks into your diet for a very pro-hormone effect.

The point of Peat's ideas for me isn't to restrict my diet to just a few foods at all times, but to know how to turn the foods available or offered to me into something that will be the most pro-metabolic. So personally if I were in your position at 18 years old, I would just get familiar with the foods available to me that are pro-metabolic and just have fun eating them to taste in any way that's enjoyable without calculating too much how it all looks on cronometer. I would probably also be downing that gallon of milk. Cheers!

I will admit that I get absolutely no pleasure from consuming raw meat, organs, and fat. It stands as a masochistic exercise more than anything, but it yields value in terms self-discipline.

One thing I noticed is that since starting this self-experiment, I have been sweating like a dog during my workouts, whereas I never sweated before now. It's fantastic to see such metabolic change in such a short window of time.

I appreciate your reference of magnesium in the presence of high amounts of calcium, as I just experienced an imbalance last night where I had a bout of insomnia and headaches likely due to high intake of the latter. I took some magnesium citrate and I fell asleep without a thought.

I mostly drink the gallon of milk for convenience and cost, as it smashes both categories. I usually put a splash of OJ concentrate in with a glass of milk, so I get all my macro- and micronutrients, hydrate, and it's just plain delicious.

I'll definitely look into Estroban, but I'm very wary of taking Vitamin E, as I'm familiar with the mortality risk. What is this pro-hormone effect you speak of from eggs? Is this from the high amounts of cholesterol, and is this worth the PUFA?

Good luck drinking a gallon of milk a day! A simpler alternative I would recommend is a half gallon of milk, 6-12oz of ruminent meat, a pack of oysters, 2-3oz of cheese and the 1-2 litre of juice. Add honey, salt, coffee as supplements, cook with butter and co.

Thanks for the tips. I'll look into some good ruminant cuts, but these are more expensive, as are the oysters. I cannot find cheese without enzymes for the life of me, so this is frustrating. I'm curious as to why you recommend honey and salt as supplements. Is it because honey contains trace minerals while table sugar does not? I'm still learning about why RP recommends salt, but I believe it's for its anti-stress effect, although I don't know what this entails.

 

[tara]

Dave

Some good suggestions above - a little liver and eggs now and then could be a good addition, as well as some gelatine regularly either from powder or gelatinous broths. Maybe consider the occasional broth from green veges for a few more minerals. I see no reason why you shouldn't drink a gallon of milk if you like it and if you are not peeing frequently and clear.

I tend to look out for ruminant soup bones and such like for cheap meat and broth.

I'll add that as an 18 yr old male, unless you are particularly small, underactive or hypothyroid, 2700 cals may be a bit low - consider increasing it a bit, esp. if you are hungry for more.

 

[schultz]

Your diet looks good. I would probably eat like that if I wasn't married and didn't have a child. My wife says we have to have dinners . I second Tara's advice on eating liver once in a while. One thing it would give you is vitamin K.

There is a lot of niacin in coffee. Making a strong coffee with 30g of beans gives nearly 50% of the daily niacin and roughly 45mg (11% on my cronometer) of magnesium. Coffee also has manganese but they don't list it on cronometer. I collected data from a bunch of coffee analysis studies and made my own cronometer "food" and called it strong coffee (30g). According to my cronometer, 1 strong coffee gives me 8% manganese. I drink about 5-7 of these a day in the form of latte's, so I get about 50% manganese and magnesium from this and an incredible amount of niacin (not to mention all the other vitamins and minerals it contains).

Parmesan is the cleanest cheese in the store. It is made with calf rennet and unpasteurized milk, the cows eat grass/hay, the only additive is salt and they even use copper lined vats! I have no comment on pasteurized vs unpasteurized; I merely mentioned it for interest.

 

[Brian]

I'll definitely look into Estroban, but I'm very wary of taking Vitamin E, as I'm familiar with the mortality risk. What is this pro-hormone effect you speak of from eggs? Is this from the high amounts of cholesterol, and is this worth the PUFA?

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that you should use Estroban or supplement vitamin E, just that the ratios in that supplement are probably a better starting place.

Yes, the cholesterol in eggs is easily utilized for hormone formation when your metabolism is working correctly. Just buy pastured eggs to get the least amount of PUFA and who knows what else from the industrial agriculture contaminants. I would only worry about the egg PUFA unless you are currently trying to PUFA detox. I think you can eat as many as gives you good results. You'll know the next day if you are metabolizing them well.

The choline in eggs is also very good for liver health and fat metabolism.

 

[JanW55]

@DaveFoster -- I'm all for minimalism (in everything really, including size of abode and number of possessions, etc.) and have tried to create 'minimal diets I myself could use, for over 40 years now.

The mostly all-liquid thing appealed to me tremendously, but the problem with that is, apparently, for a lot of OTHER physical aspects of health to kick in / be maintained properly one needs to CHEW solid food. Connects to digestion and assimilation of nutrients, etc.

Also as a very hypothyroid individual since birth, a superfluity of liquids overwhelms my system, so that was an issue too. (By the way, though, it's not because I cannot or do not sweat, that a lot of fluid consumption is an issue; rather, it is just retained all over the body, and I have been a 'cardigan' all my life -- early in my life, my mother's joking comment, because I was a 'heavy sweater' -- including hands, feet, back of knees -- all the time, regardless of environmental or exercise conditions, and if it was actually hot weather, or I was doing cardio, then all that kicked in tremendously much more so, BUT fluid was still retained, regardless.)

Wonder how all this is going for you around 3 years on, anyhow -- Peat principles, diet(s) tried, supplementation, etc.?