Datis Kharrazian - Worth Reading?

Beebop

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Hi,

I came across 'Dr. K' shortly before finding Peat. Initially I was excited that there may be other 'natural' ways of resolving Hashi's, eg, the herbs and Vit.d. However I decided not to bother buying the book, because on closer inspection, the impression I got was that he was a quack using bad science. Maybe not the quackiest of quacks, but still.

I was then surprised to see many people on these forums, and also Danny Roddy on his website mentioning and quoting him in an uncritical way.

Having read Peat on autoimmunity, it seems that Peat describes it in a completely different way than Dr. K.

Am I missing something? Why do Peat readers like his work? Do some of you dislike his work and if so why?

Some of my (half-formed) thoughts on Dr.K:
TH1 and TH2 - sounds like bad science.
He says that nearly all people with Hashi's have a Vit D absorption problem. I have Hashi's but do not have a Vit D absorption problem (doesn't discount this theory being a good one).
How do gluten antibodies become thyroid antibodies? If gluten is always (always/often?) the cause of thyroid autoimmunity, how to explain people with Hashimoto's who are not also Celiac?

Reasons why I wouldn't instantly trust him: First, many of his qualifications are based on Chiropractic/Applied Kinesiology, or Nutrition. For example, one of his qualifications - "Master of Science degree in Human Nutrition from the University of Bridgeport" could have been this online course:
http://www.bridgeport.edu/academics/gra ... ons/online

And secondly, he sells his own potions.

Why is Dr.K welcomed round these parts?
 

charlie

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I think people come here desperate with health issues, and not knowing which way to go. And while trying to grab onto Peats work they are also still "searching" at the same time. Confused on what to do. Whom to trust. So this is why Dr. K is being sprinkled into the mix. People need to walk out their own journey. If it is meant for them to find the truth, they will. All we can do is try to support each other as best as we can.

I do think we should try to keep the Dr. K stuff in this section, and not promote it in the Ray Peat section. So thanks for posting this over here.
 

Beebop

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Hi Charlie, yes you're right, everyone needs to have space to walk their own path.

I have had negative experiences in the past trusting sources that turned out to be unhelpful to say the least.

(For example, a small story: I once recommended Spirulina to someone who had liver cancer. Then found out Spirulina destroys liver cells. - I told them immediately within a day of the initial recommendation, and thankfully none had passed their lips.)

I find it helpful when others are clear and open about bad science. Then I can be free to be continually baffled by good science ;)

But, yeah, I am one of the relative newbies to Peat who is confused by the Dr K talk.
 

charlie

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I appreciate you bringing this up. Because, we definitely do not want confusion. I had felt uneasy with all the Dr K talk. Obviously you did too. Which means, many others at the same time.

In the very near future(if not tonight then will try to get it done tomorrow) I will be extracting all the Dr K talk and moving it down to this section.
 

Beebop

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Hmm, that's interesting Charlie.

What about Danny Roddy?
http://www.dannyroddy.com/2012/3/12/has ... guise.html

"The wildly popular book, Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms When My Lab Tests Are Normal, by Dr Datis Kharrazian states that up to 90% of all people with hypothyroidism is actually undiagnosed Hashimoto's disease."

It's not a huge endorsement of Kharrazian's theories, but it threw me when I first read it.
Maybe we should ask Danny! :)

I would genuinely be interested to hear what some of you think about Dr. K's work.
 

jnhermann

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I read his book. It's definitely worth the read and he is successful at treating hashimotos. Very few doctors are. Yes, 90% of hypothyroid people have thyroid antibodies. Almost nobody gets thyroid antibodies tested thanks to clueless doctors, so most hypothyroid people have no idea they have Hashimotos.

But thanks to a poster on here "Isadora"...she just turned me on to Dr. Haskell at http://www.HelpForHashimotos.com. He is a naturopathic doctor and a Hashimotos expert.

Read this article called "People with Hashimotos. Dont believe the Lies!"

http://ezinearticles.com/?People-With-Hashimotos!-Dont-Believe-the-Lies&id=6110892 . Haskell

Haskell is Peat-like in his treatment of the thyroid (except for diet which he recoomends the typical Paleo-type diet which isn't good if you believe Peat, which I do).

Watch the entire video series on his website. He goes into great detail about what to do, how to do it. He says he can get TSH down to normal levels in about 6 weeks using synthetic T4/T3 (Peat recommends the synthetic form too).

So between Haskell and Peat, Im hoping to cure Hashimotos in the next couple of months.
 

Beebop

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Thanks. Hmmm, without reading, I'm skeptical. Anyone can get TSH levels down to normal with synthetic T4 etc, nothing remarkable there. My GP would tell you it would be 4 weeks!

But will have a look and comment again.
 

Isadora

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It's about using those for a limited amount of time, after which your thyroid goes on on its own. An interesting protocol to restart it, practically. Otherwise, sure, it would be easy to keep on supplementing...
 

Beebop

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On Dr Haskell:

He believes that antibodies are a part of a clean-up process rather than an attack process.

However, he recommend taking PUFAs or 'EFAs'. He also recommends iron and taking lots of supplements. Peat's and Haskell's approaches seem incompatible to me.

Another concern of mine are the lab tests he sells. I don't know how easy it is to get lab tests in the States, but those prices for basic thyroid function tests are high. Maybe this is common? In the UK you can get all of those tests for free from a GP.

Also, how effective are saliva hormone tests? I thought estrogen and progesterone blood tests were fairly inconclusive. Anyone know about saliva tests?

About glutathione. I used to take this as a supplement years ago and found out recently that that was money down the drain because it is practically in-absorbable in pill form. From reading the wikipedia page on Glutathione, increasing it by eating more cheese (whey protein) and getting more sunlight (vit D) would work.

I'm unclear on the role of Glutathione from a Peat perspective, as a thyroid therapy. If anyone knows I would like to hear.

Sorry to not be enthused by your guy. Genuine wishes of good luck on your healing quest! :)
 

jyb

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jnhermann said:
I read his book. It's definitely worth the read and he is successful at treating hashimotos. Very few doctors are. Yes, 90% of hypothyroid people have thyroid antibodies. Almost nobody gets thyroid antibodies tested thanks to clueless doctors, so most hypothyroid people have no idea they have Hashimotos.

From the RP perspective, does it change anything if one has hashimotos?
 

Isadora

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Alexander Haskell -- Definitely Worth Reading!

Beebop said:
On Dr Haskell:

He believes that antibodies are a part of a clean-up process rather than an attack process.

And in that, he is very much like Peat. The rest, well, Dr. Haskell is free to believe in whichever diet he chooses, and so are we. One can follow Haskell's protocol while following Peat's dietary approach. I intend to do that.

Peat's dietary recommendations are not what I value him the most for. His thinking outside the box, his challenging mainstream assumptions make him valuable in my book.

Otherwise, I believe the recommendations go in the same general direction -- providing the necessary thyroid nutrients. I currently do both diet and some supplements -- because I cannot yet use huge quantities of food to extract the tons of stuff needed, like someone on a 3000 calories Peat diet could.

Beebop said:
Another concern of mine are the lab tests he sells. I don't know how easy it is to get lab tests in the States, but those prices for basic thyroid function tests are high. Maybe this is common? In the UK you can get all of those tests for free from a GP.

I wouldn't worry about that. Wait till you see Kharrazian's propositions, etc. That's how the system works in the States.

Beebop said:
About glutathione. I used to take this as a supplement years ago and found out recently that that was money down the drain because it is practically in-absorbable in pill form. From reading the wikipedia page on Glutathione, increasing it by eating more cheese (whey protein) and getting more sunlight (vit D) would work.

I'm unclear on the role of Glutathione from a Peat perspective, as a thyroid therapy. If anyone knows I would like to hear.

I took a bunch of glutathione precursors from myprotein.com. I thought those were an interesting find, but then I stopped when I read that Peat is against supplementation of this type (isolated amino acids -- it is my understanding that he prefers them in more natural combinations, as gelatin or particular foods).

Beebop said:
Sorry to not be enthused by your guy. Genuine wishes of good luck on your healing quest! :)
Thanks, you too, and when whatever you choose to do works, do let us know so we can follow! :)

@jyb I don't think so, just another interesting stats to evaluate how you're doing...

I don't understand why people don't talk more about thyroid ultrasounds, though... In my case, the endocrinologist first did an ultrasound, then muttered, "Yeah, Hashimoto's, clearly". She ordered Anti-TPO and Anti-TGA labs warning me that this was a mere formality and that she would be *very* surprised if they came back negative. Sure enough, they were sky-high.
 

narouz

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As I said over in another thread,
I bought the Kharrazian book a couple years before I discovered Peat
and it was my favorite of the many "alternative" books on thyroid I read at that time.
I tried a whole lot of his herbal and supplement and dietary recommendations.
Unfortunately, they didn't help me.
They may help others.

As I recall Kharrazian's dietary recommendation was
to "eat like a caveman."
That was one area of his book I thought was a little weak,
because of his vagueness and lack of explanation.

Depending upon which of the 21 possible categories one decides one falls into
Kharrazian recommends different vitamins and supplements.
I had a hard time pigeon-holing myself and that categorization method
was kinduv impressive, but at the same time it left me a little suspicious
because it seemed like a lot of fancy apparatus
which was hard to apply practically.
But it made his book seem very "scientific" and "methodical" and "protocol-ly."

He recommends high doses of glutamine for some,
which is not Peatish.
He eschews sugars--again, not Peatish.
As I recall he is fine with PUFA.

Peat and Kharrazian would overlap in some minor ways, I guess.
Eliminating gluten is one.
More generally, Kharrazian does seem very focused upon what Peat calls allergenicity--
Kharrazian, again, as I recall without digging out my book, has one eliminate a whole range
of foods which he thinks provoke antibodies to thyroid:
isn't milk a big one?
Peat says many will need vitamin D, and so does Kharrazian as I recall.

Overall though, you're in a very, very different world with Kharrazian than with Peat.

Kharrazian was attractive to me because his approach to hypothyroidism said
that if you eliminate allergens, fill deficiencies, and eat like a caveman,
your thyroid will start working again--
and you can stop being addicted to the unnatural dependency upon supplemental thyroid,
or you at least may lessen the degree of the addiction.
He never used that language--"addiction," but that to me was the implication,
and it was an implication which was very appealing to me.
Since being diagnosed, I was always sortuv bummed out that now I had
Something Irreversibly Defective in my body,
and I didn't want to accept it: intimations of mortality.
Kharrazian's book seemed to say to me:
You're fine! You're still whole!
With a few Natural supplements, some Natural Caveman Eating,
and some Natural herbal supplements,
you can return yourself to your Natural healthy state
without the Addictive and UnNatural Hormone Drug thyroid pill.

I remember being enthralled by that implied poetry and mythology,
by the promise of returning to my natural healthy state.
As I say though, unfortunately it didn't work.
Honestly, it may work for others--I don't know.
 

Isadora

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Can't wait to read your impressions on Dr. Haskell, narouz...:) Maybe we should do another thread in this area. And I definitely should watch his videos in full before I see my doctor again.

Just please don't get hung up on his dietary recommendations, it's understood here that we all follow Peat's advice, to the best of our abilities.
 

Mittir

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I am always skeptical about those naturopath and chiropractors. They really do not understand science and are full of absurb claims. I have been to his website in past . I thought his emphasis on Th1 and Th2 was to sell his supplements. .K over generalized many of the scientific results. I did find articles in pubmed that showed connection between Hashimoto , gluten and vitamin D. I did follow Dr Ayer before found Peat from his website . Dr Ayer ( a real scientist with PhD in cell biology) wrote some stuff on autoimmune, hashimoto , gluten and Vit D. http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com ... -galt.html All these are small part of whole picture. No one explains Hashimoto more comprehensively than Peat. Danny is not a science guy. It is not easy for him to distinguish between real and fakes.
 

Beebop

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Since being diagnosed, I was always sortuv bummed out that now I had
Something Irreversibly Defective in my body,
and I didn't want to accept it: intimations of mortality.

Yes, I have felt the same.
Thanks for your reply narouz.

Also, Mittir, you are echoing what I am thinking, thanks for your thoughts!
 
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