• tca300: I understand this is off topic from what you typically teach, but I was wondering if you have run across any information or learned on your own, things that help people grieve over lost loved ones, and or fear of losing others to death? Thank you!

    Ray Peat: It activates the “helplessness” reactions in the body, stress weakening your own life, and I think it can help to get out of that if you think of your life as a continuation of theirs—the same life, though with fewer bodies.

    Rest in Paradise, Raymond Peat  October 12, 1936 - November 24 2022

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blob69

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Removing ovaries in humans is associated with a plethora of diseases (Wikipedia). Spaying dogs was shown to have negative effects in multiple studies (see here). However, for cats it is claimed that spaying hardly has any negative effects or even worse, that it's overall beneficial.

How is that possible? Isn't the biology of humans, dogs and cats similar enough that spaying should produce similar effects in these species? Is veterinary science really that stupid?
 

joaquin

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Bob Barker used to end the Price is Right telling everyone to help control the pet population , have your pet spayed or neutered.
This is a form of mental sickness.
Outdoor cats are not a threat to anyone. They keep down the mice. By keeping down the mice, the snakes are less abundant.
 

blob69

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I totally agree, it seems insane to me. In my country the mantra "spay as early as possible" has spread in last 10 years and the result is that cats have almost disappeared from all major towns. One is seen as a criminal if they leave their cat to reproduce, or let her outdoors if not on a leash.

I'm asking this question because of a horrific experience we just had with an animal shelter run by this kind of people. You can read more about it here: Animal Shelter Horrors
 
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blob69

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Bob Barker used to end the Price is Right telling everyone to help control the pet population , have your pet spayed or neutered.
This is a form of mental sickness.
Outdoor cats are not a threat to anyone. They keep down the mice. By keeping down the mice, the snakes are less abundant.
There seems to be no pet overpopulation in America:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-CwFaUsuTg
 

I'm.No.One

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As a person who lives somewhere where the feral cats are A HUGE issue I can say to think there's no overpopulation of wild domesticated animals is a willful delusion.

There were thousands of cats in my area, all half starved, loaded down with disease, & it got so bad the local health department said it was no longer safe to go to our rivers because the cats used the sand as a mega litter box.

It took years of spaying & feeding cat food that sterilized them to fix the issue.

There's also the real issue of how damaging they are to a fragile ecosystem, especially birds.

I'm not saying cats in an environment is automatically an issue, but there absolutely needs to be balance or damage is done.

But...maybe toxoplasmosis has taken over you & is controlling your brain because it always wants "mooooore cats" 👈 read that in zombie talk 😅
 

blob69

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As a person who lives somewhere where the feral cats are A HUGE issue

It took years of spaying & feeding cat food that sterilized them to fix the issue.
Decide, are they an issue or has the issue been fixed? Why are you so afraid of animals and diseases they supposedly carry, and on the other hand unaware of how horrific the consequences of removing ovaries can be for long-term health? Have you read Ray Peat's work at all?
 

Perry Staltic

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Life's full of trade offs. Cats get a good home and their caretakers don't have to deal with the hassles of cats in heat.
 

blob69

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Life's full of trade offs. Cats get a good home and their caretakers don't have to deal with the hassles of cats in heat.
I understand the convenience, but my question is different. How can spaying cats be seen as neutral or healthful if the same procedure was proven to be extremely harmful in humans and probably very harmful in dogs? Where's the logic?
 

blob69

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Here's a good summary for dogs: "It is becoming increasingly clear that removing a male dog’s testicles will have detrimental health effects throughout the dog’s life. He will never fully mature, he will be prone to hip and joint issues, he will likely have digestive issues, will likely be overweight, and will be prone to several types of cancer, just to name a few issues."
 

blob69

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As a person who lives somewhere where the feral cats are A HUGE issue I can say to think there's no overpopulation of wild domesticated animals is a willful delusion.

There were thousands of cats in my area, all half starved, loaded down with disease, & it got so bad the local health department said it was no longer safe to go to our rivers because the cats used the sand as a mega litter box.

It took years of spaying & feeding cat food that sterilized them to fix the issue.

There's also the real issue of how damaging they are to a fragile ecosystem, especially birds.

I'm not saying cats in an environment is automatically an issue, but there absolutely needs to be balance or damage is done.

But...maybe toxoplasmosis has taken over you & is controlling your brain because it always wants "mooooore cats" 👈 read that in zombie talk 😅
Also, please explain to me - why do you not demand sterilization and castration for humans if you demand it for cats? Humans are also mainly miserable, loaded with disease, overcrowding this planet and completely destroying the fragile ecosystem. I honestly would like to know the answer to this question. Are animals less worthy than humans to you?
 

I'm.No.One

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Decide, are they an issue or has the issue been fixed? Why are you so afraid of animals and diseases they supposedly carry, and on the other hand unaware of how horrific the consequences of removing ovaries can be for long-term health? Have you read Ray Peat's work at all?
Lol at this point I'm honestly not so sure my joke about toxoplasmosis isn't factual.

You know that's a prion that cats ABSOLUTELY carry & that when it gets into mice it makes them lose fear of cats because ultimately it wants to get inside of cats.

It clearly has evolved into making humans come onto the internet to demand we allow the over population of cats.

Who cares if they're starving, covered in ring worm, decimating bio regions, freezing to death in the winter, we obviously NEED MORE CATS.

But hey man if you wana become a colony feeder and make sure they're getting their daily OJ, milk, & gummies go for it.
 

Perry Staltic

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Who cares if they're starving, covered in ring worm, decimating bio regions, freezing to death in the winter, we obviously NEED MORE CATS.

What gets me is certain people thinking that a short life from what you described is better for cats than being spayed and pampered for 15-18 years by subservient humans
 

Ippodrom47

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OP, what country are you from?
I know that sterilized cats tend to be much bigger in size compared to those retaining reproductive function.
 

I'm.No.One

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What gets me is certain people thinking that a short life from what you described is better for cats than being spayed and pampered for 15-18 years by subservient humans
Right?

Hey that cats just had it's like 15th litter of kittens & it's hair is falling out but thank God her ovaries are still intact...

What's funny is if the OP eats meat (doubtful) 99% of what they're consuming (especially red meat/pork) is from castrated males.

Trust me, eating intact beef/pork is horrendous both in flavor & in the case of beef toughness.
 

Don

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Bob Barker used to end the Price is Right telling everyone to help control the pet population , have your pet spayed or neutered.
This is a form of mental sickness.
Outdoor cats are not a threat to anyone. They keep down the mice. By keeping down the mice, the snakes are less abundant.
your an idiot. cats brutally destroy wildlife unnecessarily and in some countries they are causing extinctions. Australia and New Zealand the most obvious examples but there are many others. How does less snakes be a good thing. My god your the one with mental illness.
 

joaquin

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your an idiot. cats brutally destroy wildlife unnecessarily and in some countries they are causing extinctions. Australia and New Zealand the most obvious examples but there are many others. How does less snakes be a good thing. My god your the one with mental illness.
I prefer cats over snakes. If that makes me an idiot in your eyes then I'll just have to learn to live with your scorn.
 

Blossom

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We had 8 feral cats dumped off in our barn in May of last year. One was the mom and the rest were kittens from two back to back litters.
I never knew before but female cats can become pregnant the day they give birth because they are obligate ovulators.
I started taking care of them the best I could but by August or September it was obvious the momma cat was pregnant again. It was really out of control. I had a neighbor help me live trap them and I got them all spayed or neutered at the local low cost animal clinic. The momma had her last litter in October and we tamed them and got them in a foster program after they were weaned. Three of the six in the litter died though because she moved them from the barn. Apparently it is a normal instinct for the mom to do this at 2-3 weeks after delivery. I found two of the dead kittens and buried them. After that I confined them to a cat condo in the barn.
All in all I dealt with 14 cats that I didn’t ask for and I loved them but it was a lot of work. If I hadn’t had them fixed I’d be overrun with feral cats right now. I had 3 kittens placed through the foster program, 4 of the middle litter were relocated to another farm where there’s a stable neutered feral colony that gets fed daily and has a barn to live in & I kept 4 that I feed, care for and check on daily.
There’s no way I could have afforded to do anything different. I know the cats living here are happy and have a good life. I get updates periodically on the ones that were relocated and they are doing well too.
It was an ordeal but I was just simply making the best out of a really bad situation.
Edit: I have a female dog that still has her ovaries.
 

joaquin

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One day I'm going to have a place out in the rural area down a dirt road. I'm going to get some cats and get them to reproduce and multiply like nobody's business. The countryside will be overrun with cats.
 

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