DAIRY FREE

Discussion in 'iLoveSugar' started by iLoveSugar, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. Travis

    Travis Member

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    Just correcting my previous comment.

    Estrogen, although fat soluble, actually binds to the proteins in milk. There is little difference in estrogen concentrations between full-fat and skim milk.
     
  2. thms

    thms Member

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    I know this is an old post but WHY can milk cause mood problems/libido/motivational problems??? seems like i am experiencing something like this but i dont know if it is from the milk./icecream/cottagecheese i am consuming since just recently (didnt consume any dairy for over 10 years)
     
  3. Travis

    Travis Member

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    There are two more steroid hormones, 5α- pregnanedione and 5α-androstanedione, which exist at about 1 ppm. These are not generally tested for in studies.

    But the mood problems are most likely caused (in my opinion) from the opiate-like peptide fragments. Goat milk should have less of an effect because of it's different protein sequence (casein).
     
  4. thms

    thms Member

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    Thank you travis,

    ive recently read that A1 CAN be a problem (dont say it is a fact, didnt read up on it THAT much)

    since all goats milk is A2, this makes sense to me?

    Too ba d i cant find low/no fat goatmilk :(

    any other options?

    i FEEL like i have low motivation ./ itchy scalp when consuming dairy from cows
     
  5. Pompadour

    Pompadour Member

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    Can mineral water substitute milk for calcium and other minerals? I guess one should take vitamine K at the same time, because mineral water is lack of fats and fat soluble vitamins.
     
  6. tara

    tara Member

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    I've never seen a mineral water with anywhere near as much calcium as milk has (probably hard to get that much to dissolve), but you may be able to get one that provides a little of the useful minerals. You can read the labels to see. I've read people here who favour gerolsteiner (sp?) or make their own.
     
  7. thms

    thms Member

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    did try a2 milk yesterday and got severe lethargy

    also experience dandruff lately after not having it for years

    can this be due to suddenly increased dairy intake? I buy it at the supermarket, not organic or anything

    thanks
     
  8. Pompadour

    Pompadour Member

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    Some kinds of mineral water have as much as 200mg of calcium per 100ml or more. UPD: actually it is mg per liter!!! So you are right.
    But i wonder if this calcium is worse than milk calcium , because mineral water has no fat and no fat soluble vitamins in it. So how the body can use it? In milk it is like "bio-calcium" for me and in mineral water - it is like a stone-calcium.

    Or is calcium is always calcium no matter the source? I am perplexed...
     
  9. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    The calcium/phosphate ratio can be very high though.
     
  10. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    This sounds extremely familiar. Are you still dairy free?
     
  11. damngoodcoffee

    damngoodcoffee Member

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    I've done some experimenting with different dairy products but mostly yes.
     
  12. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    Pretty unquestionable how many people milk causes digestive stress for... I've observed that b-vitamins seem to decrease digestive stress of milk. For one riboflavin is present in much higher amounts in natural milk - this could be a factor.
     
  13. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    You are literally describing the symptoms of inflammation (perhaps from the depletion of magnesium and other anti inflammatory minerals to deal with the inflammation?). I have the same experiences as you from any pasteurised dairy - unhomogenised A2 milk included. Yogurt isn't quite so bad. I believe pasteurisation ***** with the protein structure of milk and those that have leaky gut will be decimated by the inflammatory/autoimmune response to the presence of these altered or improperly digested proteins in the bloodstream.

    Raw cheese is fine, but I (and I assume most people?) can't use it as a lone calcium source due to the amino acid profile, or more simply; I don't crave or enjoy it past a certain point, but I still crave milk beyond that point.

    I'm currently awaiting a raw milk delivery and will update with how I get on.
     
  14. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

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    So you think mega dosing magnesium is the way to fix this or whatever other minerals are being depleted?
     
  15. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    No because megadosing magnesium would drastically up your selenium needs along with calcium, zinc, all their cofactor. It might provide symptomatic relief but it'll hurt your overall balance and take you further from health..

    That's the point, the inflammation increases your anti inflammatory mineral needs to an impossibly high level so you remain depleted. You can't just megadose because the cascade of cofactors mean you'd have to megadose literally everything, along with taking in the calories to support it. You won't tolerate many calories in this state as your thyroid isn't strong due to said inflammation (it's a protective response).

    I'm hoping raw dairy will fix it. Else I'll revert to calcium citrate (not ideal aa causes dehydration and citrate potentially impedes copper metabolism according to Morley Robbins) or calcium carbonate with vinegar.

    I'm confident as raw cheese is just fine for me, and most raw milk advocates really rave about it. I expect some digestive distress as I adapt, though. I can deal with that. Inflammation I cannot!
     
  16. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    Figured I'd do an update.

    I'm essentially tolerating raw milk.

    I have to really salivate it properly to make sure it's warm (I either have it alone or with weetabix - oh my word I forgot what an earth shatteringly good combo this is!), which essentially just means keeping it in my mouth 10 seconds before swallowing (strictly in context!!!)

    I had pretty heavy fatigue and stomach discomfort the first week. The fatigue mostly resolved through cardio interval exercise (necessary to aid digestion for me) and the stomach stuff just slowly got better, partly through exercise, partly time and partly salivation/warmth. Oh also i can't have too much milk with the weetabix at the moment so I only have two at a time and don't drown them.

    I have been supplementing 225mcg iodine which is important for stomach acid production and also craving fish fingers so I'm probably very iodine deficient after being off dairy a long while. Raw milk alone probably won't cover my iodine needs so I'm going to carefully play with 225 to 675 micrograms until I find balance. I reiterate carefully - the metabolic crash from getting iodine wrong is a truly awful state!

    The symptoms never felt inflammatory, only digestive. The fatigue was really unpleasant though so I'd recommend going incredibly slowly if you're unwilling to exercise.

    It's expensive but it truly feels like a relief - craving milk is so useful and it avoids all the guesswork of supplement dosages. Hopefully other people will give it a try.

    I'm sure I'll tolerate pasteurised milk again soon but I'm going to stick with this until I feel sufficiently content.
     
  17. Travis

    Travis Member

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    Milk is nearly always homogenized and so it yoghurt. Cheese can either be homogenized or not, but since it's not declared on the label it's harder to discern. The practice of pasteurization is government-mandated and so is its designation on food labels. Homogenization is not so legally defined, and its declaration on cheese labels is ostensibly foregone on the basis of word economy; 'pasteurized homogenized part-skim milk' is perhaps seen as a bit prolix by food manufacturers concerned more with energy values than with the micellar encapsulation of antigenic proteins.

    The homogenization of cow's milk reduces diameter of its lipid micelles from roughly 15·μm to ~2·μm, depending of course on pressure and screen size. This process also encapsulates proteins, protecting them both from digestion and bacterial proteolysis during cheesemaking. It's do not think that its irrational to suppose that a good percentage of cow's milk folate receptors could be hydrolyzed by certain strains of bacteria during cheesemaking, a practice that could occur as it ages yet is likely prevented by micellar encapsulation.

    Despite never being label-declared in the United States, homogenized milk is undoubtedly used in modern cheese production. This practice incorporates casein into the micellar membrane, a process that leads to disparate physical physical properties vs raw milk cheese. Cheese made with homogenized milk also exudes less oil in hot climates, and the increased protein crosslinking is a desirable property of mozzarella.

    Even though goat milk presents less of an immunological risk, its prior homogenization would still tend towards an enhanced absorption—or persorption—of high-molecular weight peptides. Although antibodies to goat and sheep folate receptor are most certainly formed by humans, these are not autoantibodies because they won't bind to those of our own. Since aged cheeses are exempt from pasteurization and are not always homogenized, I think eating cheese is safer than drinking milk. We have more options with cheese: My grocery store sells raw milk goat cheese—Mt. Sterling Cheddarand also two kinds of raw milk sheep cheese, both being pecorino romano (übersalty).
     
  18. cats

    cats Member

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    @Travis Do you think that having a high tendency to crumble, as parmigiano reggiano does, is a good indication of a cheese being non-homogenized? This should indicate low protein crosslinking, if I understand correctly.
    Also, do you think a paper coffee filter could be used to filter the micelles of homogenized milk?
     
  19. Travis

    Travis Member

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    I know that hard cheese I see are made from raw milk, such as the Bel Gioioso brand. Homogenized milk produces cheese with a lower melting point, perhaps the main reason why it's commonly done. Since it only takes one instance to raise autoantibodies against milk proteins, which have a half life titer decay rate on the order of months, I myself would make sure to buy just raw milk cheese. Even then, there is a still a chance of autoantibody formation with any cow's milk cheese.

    I think you're right about the crumbliness of cheese being correlated with raw milk, as the proteins should tend to polymerize in a stiffer configuration without going through 'lipid crosslinking nodes, ' or the protein∶micelle conglomerates. Having a protein crosslinked network form through lipid-based liposome intermediates should increase flexibility. The liposome size is reduced from about 15 microns down to about 2 microns after homogenization, so any inconsistency in cheese would probably argue for it being raw.

    You might think that a raw milk cheese would dry out quicker. It is commonly stated that homogenization reduces the 'sweating' of lipids you see on warm days, or what is perceived when short-chained fatty acid triglycerides melt and expand in warm temperatures.
     
  20. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    Another update.

    I really craved the raw milk for like a week but now I'm no longer craving it again. Raw organic absolutely causes less issue than pasterueised homogenised for me but I'm still not certain a high milk intake is a particularly good thing.

    A cup with well salivated and enjoyed food to prompt a good stomach acid response is likely fine. It's definitely one of the more difficult foods to digest, especially when facing metabolic dysfunction.
     
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