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Dairy Fat And Fatigue

Discussion in 'Cheese' started by Runenight201, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I've pinpointed as of late that dairy fat causes an immediate sense of fatigue, that is lifted after about 30 mins to an hour after ingestion of the fat.

    If I consume a high enough amount of this fat, the fatigue becomes bad enough for me to have to take a nap.

    It's a shame because I love how cheese tastes, and I definitely crave it about once a day, and I always feel satiated and a positive mood from eating the cheese, but the fatigue post consumption.... I've switched to skim milk about once/twice a day with coffee and I have noticed positive effects from this, but I'm not sure if I can get used to cottage cheese...although I may have to give it a try.

    Anyone else notice this from dairy fat?
     
  2. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    I'm about to try raw milk straight from the farmer this weekend. From what I have heard it is generally more agreeable than most commercial milk which I now believe to be junk food, I'll let you know how it goes for me. A2 milk I respond to better than A1 milk, but still have issues if I don't have a large amount of sugar with it. I don't react well to most dairy either. Goat cheese is amazing though, it is the only cheese I can tolerate. Hard cheeses are bad news for my digestive system so I never have cheddar, mozzarella, or any of that any more. Also most cheeses besides being A1 dairy also have toxic additives which help contribute to fatigue and brain fog. I had this one hard piece of mozzarella cheese on a business trip the other month, and the fatigue and brain fog afterwards was brutal. I think they had like half a dozen artificial ingredients added.

    Every day I am becoming more and more in tune with how important it is to eat REAL food, with zero additives of ANY kind. I'd actually argue that eating REAL foods is more important than eating one specific food of any kind or even avoiding a specific food like legumes. Plenty of people thrive on eating a wide variety of food and are very healthy, as long as its real food. For example I'm gonna read "Food Babe's" book soon, as she talks a lot about all the harmful additives in food. Her diet isn't one that I fully agree with (I think she eats fairly low sugar, and eats some PUFA laden foods like nuts and legumes) but all the food she eats is fully natural with no harmful additives and I think that's what ultimately makes her healthy. I mostly wanted her book to get an idea of what brands of foods to avoid and which are safe, because I'm really trying to clean up my food intake.
     
  3. Lee Simeon

    Lee Simeon Member

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    Yeah actually. I know Travis have talked positively of goat cheese and this have replaced my milk intake. I do however notice fatigue after this so perhaps it is the fat that does this. Not sure though...
     
  4. OP
    Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I had a similar experience with shredded mozerlla cheese that I bought packaged from the grocery store. Because the cheese is shredded, they have to add many ingredients in order to keep it from clumping together, which induced major inflammation and brain fog in me upon consumption.

    I seem to react fine to normal grocery store skim milk, probably because the milk isn't homogenized. One day I'll have to experiment with non-homogenized milk, but to be honest i've come to enjoy the taste of skim now, I'm not sure if I would like the fatty taste in milk.

    I had one type of goat cheese that I simply found unpalatable. It had a very odd taste to it and I didn't like it. I may have to try out harder cheeses and different types of goat cheeses, simply for experimentation purposes, as the soft, fatty cheese that I've been eating seems to be causing fatigue issues, even though I do enjoy the taste and it doesn't seem to inflame my body. It also positively builds up my nails and gums, so the cheese isn't absolutely terrible for my body, it could just be the fat content...

    I could also simply have an issue with fat, as yesterday I ate 3 hard boiled eggs with fruit and subsequently became overwhelmed with fatigue, laziness, and no desire to do anything.

    Then again they were the cheap grocery store eggs....

    But who knows, i'll keep experimenting for sure. I try and pay attention to my stomach, because I've noticed that whenever it is flat, non-bloated, and content, I am very sharp and energetic, but whenever it is bloated or upset, I usually feel bad as well.
     
  5. Lee Simeon

    Lee Simeon Member

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    Please share your experiences here. The thing I noticed with goat cheese is that it takes time to get used to. The first month I found it nasty, but after some time I find it more tolerable. I dont think it is very good though, but I can manage to eat together with orange juice :)
     
  6. Lee Simeon

    Lee Simeon Member

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    Please share your experiences here. The thing I noticed with goat cheese is that it takes time to get used to. The first month I found it nasty, but after some time I find it more tolerable. I dont think it is very good though, but I can manage to eat it with orange juice :)
     
  7. OP
    Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    haha I don't play that game. If something doesn't taste good to me, I interpret that as my body rejecting it as bad for me. I've forced food too many times in my past =P I will certainly share my cheese experiments here.
     
  8. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Yeah I mean dairy fat in too high of an amount relative to sugar could possibly cause a problem even from raw milk I suppose, since dietary fat is never superior to sugar for fuel, even if its saturated fats, but I've found being hypo requires a generous supply of saturated fats because we can't use sugar for fuel well so without the fats to buffer the sugar, at least for me, I run out of blood sugar fast.
     
  9. OP
    Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I just had an incredible meal of sweet potatoes with a little bit of salt and lots of sugar to taste. Without the sugar, I find sweet potatoes unpalatable, but with a generous amount of sugar, the sweet potatoes were incredibly delicious and I ate my fill of them. I had about a cup of skim milk to drink and a couple mandarins for dessert =)

    While I was waiting for my sweet potatoes to cook, I got a nice little lower leg workout in. Did a decent amount of single leg squats, single leg RDL's, power skaters, and sumo squats with mini power pumps held at the bottom. Definitely felt the pump!

    I feel really good from this meal, definitely going to include it in my lineup of foods.
     
  10. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Yes. Sweet potatoes are one of natures' superfoods. I have them almost every day and swear by them.
     
  11. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    I'm tempted to see fatigue after a meal as a good sign that the body has lowered stress hormones and wants to rest since most hypo have sleep troubles that prevent fully restorative sleep. Does it make sense?

    Just a hunch, no scientific backing.
     
  12. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    I believe that's correct if your body temperature and pulse are both good. I've had my pulse up to 88 and body temp of 99F and been sleepy before. I do take that as a good sign. From what I understand, there are two ways to be in "Activation" or "Inhibition" mode.

    Activation - state of alertness, energy
    Inhibition - state of recharging, sleep

    If you're stressed out then:

    Activation - due to stress hormones
    Inhibition - due to torpor, melatonin, serotonin- does not result in restful sleep

    If you're healthy then:

    Activation - due to healthy energy (T3 from thyroid, kyrunenine pathway activated, niacin energy distribution)
    Inhibition - due to high GABA- results in restful sleep

    So, from that, if you're doing good (high pulse and temp) but sleepy then you probably have high GABA.
     
  13. OP
    Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I've seen that argument put forward before but I don't buy it, especially since I've had days when I've been awake and energetic the entire time.

    The dairy fat induced fatigue almost seems like I'm being drugged. Fatty milk is the worst, where I feel incredibly tired and almost forced asleep.

    When I eat good foods during the day I always feel energized from them. I view tiredness after a meal as the food being inappropriate to me. Especially since my sleep had been much improved after adding homemade chicken stock soup into my diet. That stuff really is magical for sleep.
     
  14. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    The argument is still valid I think. The lethargy seems ti be an hindrance to your daily activities though. In this case, you have to find a combination that promote activation instead of inhibition.
     
  15. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    If you notice torpor alongside of a low heart rate and/or temperature, then that is not a good sign, but if the sleepiness is accompanied by a good pulse and temperature I think you're OK. Usually when I get an adverse reaction to food it is accompanied by torpor (low heart rate & temperature). The reason why you might get sleepy after good food is for a couple reasons... one is it could be simply that your low metabolism is surfacing and shown its true nature after having run off stress hormones for a long time, secondly, it may be your body trying to get you to get some "Restful" sleep (seeing as how torpor does not result in restful sleep, so no matter much you sleep, it does no good, and now that your body can finally get some proper sleep, it wants you to do so, and you're correct, once you are healed you should not be getting sleepy in the middle of the day after food but I think to a degree it is necessary and can/will happen as you are still healing).
     
  16. OP
    Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I’ve had an awful experience with eating restaurant pizza while I was with friends on Saturday.

    I got 2 slices of xtra cheesy pizza with pepperoni, sausage, meatballs, bell pepper, and onions. Coca Cola to drink. I was very well satiated after the meal

    BUT I got hit with the worst allergy flare up that I’ve had in a while. It didn’t help that I was hanging out in a house with dogs as well. Usually dogs don’t flare up my allergies too bad, but the pizza + dogs completely congested my sinuses.

    I was pretty much blocked up for the next 24 hours, having to mouthbreathe many times. I’m sure I was sleeping with my mouth hanging wide open. I truly felt incapacitated. I think the combination of dense cheese with gluten created a terrible allergic reaction in me. I will no longer ever eat pizza again.

    My craving for dairy had completely disappeared, and for the past 24 hours I subsisted on sugar, fruit, broth, starch, and meat.

    However in a way, I’m happy this occurred, because 2 discoveries came from this.

    1) **** pizza =P
    2) Coffee greatly alleviated the congestion and allergies.

    In my state of frustration, thinking how I could get my congestion to go away, I decided I’d have a cup of coffee at 10PM.

    Like magic, my congestion and sneezing began clearing up, and I was able to sit in my dusty dog hair filled house without reacting terribly to everything.

    So I will now make sure to try and include coffee more frequently in my daily diet, especially around dairy, and completely avoid the catastrophy that was gluten + cheese for the rest of my life.
     
  17. chrismturner89

    chrismturner89 Member

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    Could it be too much vitamin a?
     
  18. OP
    Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    For the fatigue or the allergies?

    I'm not sure, but I'm not about to go on a vitamin A elimination crusade.

    My cheese appetite has reduced drastically, perhaps because of that allergic reaction, but I'm very careful with the amount I consume.

    I did have about 1.5 oz cows cheese with orange juice and apple sauce and I feel fine, no ensuing fatigue.

    The poison may be in the dosage.
     
  19. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    I don't think cheese is bad. But I don't doubt that the cheese that goes on top of most pizzas is bad. If they used goat cheese it probably would have been fine. But yeah, I haven't had a pizza in a long time lol

    Wheat is no bueno
     
  20. OP
    Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I've made great strides as of late in terms of eating correctly and energy, however for the life of me I can't figure this one point out.

    I no longer drink milk on its own, but only as chocolate milk (bitter chocolate, milk, sugar). This has been a game changer in terms of satiation, mood, and energy, and I feel as if I'm getting all the benefits of milk without any of the drawbacks (indigestion, fatigue, etc...)

    Since chocolate has some caffeine and can act as a stimulant, I've cut back my coffee drinking in the morning/lunch, as I'll drink chocolate milk ad libitum (around other solid foods, usually toast/potatoes, meat, eggs, etc....

    However, sometime between 3-5pm I'll have a strong coffee craving, but instead of the black coffee giving me energy, it actually fatigues me...after the first couple sips I start yawning and I feel de-energized. This goes on for about 30 mins until I power through more coffee and then I'm up with supernormal levels of energy.

    Perhaps I should try the coffee with some milk (like I do with hot chocolate) and it would mitigate this response. In fact I'm craving some nice plain yogurt mixed with cherry jam (dairy/sugar) after drinking coffee, and even though I'm tired, I feel as if this meal would shoot me straight back to 100%. Perhaps the coffee is increasing my GABA pathways as @Cirion stated and as such resulting in a state of inhibition. Too bad I don't have access to my yogurt/jam until I get off work :( Maybe I should mix my coffee with yogurt and sugar???? That would be an interesting concoction....

    Normal grocery store block cheese has been fine for me now, and I consume it usually with some crackers and either soda or OJ. There could be something to blood sugar regulation that I need to research more into, because I bet some dysregulation has been going on. I've been pretty good at incorporating most foods correctly to prevent fatigue, but just haven't figured out the coffee yet.
     
  21. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Coffee is a fickle mistress. Even Nate Hatch admits in his book that coffee may sometimes make you sleepy instead of wake you up. I have my own theories as to why. I say if you can't figure it out just ditch it like I've decided to do. I have determined its not worth any potential benefits. For me at least.

    Caffeine works in part by inhibiting adenosine receptors in the brain. Adenosine is normally responsible for making you sleepy when appropriate, to induce the inhibition phase (sleep). So basically it wakes you up when the body wants you to sleep. The body reacts by increasing its production of adenosine. This is what causes caffeine "tolerance" to develop, and why you have to take in more to get the same effect. This is also what causes caffeine hangover, especially upon quitting caffeine cold turkey after habitual intake for a long time. You have a ton of adenosine, which induces potent fatigue. Intaking a bunch of coffee could cause your body to spontaneously create a ton of adenosine which could instantly negate the energetic effects of caffeine. This is probably more likely to happen when you're already caffeine adapted and tends to happen in my experience. If I'm not caffeine adapted, I get a huge jolt of energy, but if I am, the caffeine barely does anything for me and may even make me sleepy. According to Nate it takes like 14 days of caffeine-free to restore proper GABA functioning, which means it must take those 14 days to purge excess adenosine from the brain.

    Caffeine also will increase the cortisol to testosterone ratio in the body unless you have rock solid 100% perfect nutrition, which most of us do not. So for me caffeine seems to be a net negative, and I've decided to cut it from my diet. There was a study done that showed something like 600 mg caffeine resulted in around a 20% increase in testosterone but almost a 50% increase in cortisol, so the net hit to your cortisol:testosterone ratio was negative, and I now believe C/T ratio is a fairly good marker of health bas. Granted, they probably weren't eating a peat friendly diet, but still. Excessive caffeine intake seems like a reasonable way to promote obesity, despite the research claiming that caffeine can clear fatty liver and whatnot. I don't believe that anymore based upon my experiences. The potential to increase cortisol by 50% in an already overstressed body just doesn't seem wise to me what soever.
    The advice that people will make is well intentioned but misguided. "Just eat more sugar/fat with the coffee". I already eat way too much food and have gained way too much weight, the last thing I need to do is eat even more. So no, that doesn't work. That's the final issue I have with caffeine - it does tend to have a potent effect on appetite, making you eat more, and thus getting fatter.

    Thus, in my opinion, caffeine is only MAYBE useful in someone who is already healthy, and its not useful for someone recovering from poor health. This jives from my personal experiences too. In some brief instances that I have been healthy, I believe caffeine was supported by good health, not the other way around. Others like @Janelle525 have had similar experiences with caffeine, and also Zachs (who no longer posts here).

    Finally, some people have a certain gene that prevent them from metabolizing caffeine effectively, so they'll never be able to use caffeine appropriately compared to others. In fact for both my brother, and my best male friend, caffeine doesn't even increase energy at all for them. For my brother, it even has the opposite effect -it puts him to sleep.

    I have determined that even chocolate is now no bueno for me due to the caffeine, sadly.
     
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