D3 Scrotal application

[Motorneuron]

Is it safe to apply 250-500ui of D3 in the scrotum? will i have an increase in androgen receptors or a temporary increase in testosterone?

 

[Hans]

Is it safe to apply 250-500ui of D3 in the scrotum? will i have an increase in androgen receptors or a temporary increase in testosterone?

Should be fine, but not needed. Topical K2, thyroid or DHEA and preg should have a much better effect on increasing T. Also, androgens potently increase AR, so I'd rather apply an androgen there if that's your goal. Something strong like T or DHT.

 

[golder]

Should be fine, but not needed. Topical K2, thyroid or DHEA and preg should have a much better effect on increasing T. Also, androgens potently increase AR, so I'd rather apply an androgen there if that's your goal. Something strong like T or DHT.

Wouldn’t a large portion of T convert to DHT anyway due to 5AR in the skin, so better to use T on the scrotum? What carriers do you deem amongst the safest, given that this is a very delicate/sensitive application site.

 

[Hans]

Wouldn’t a large portion of T convert to DHT anyway due to 5AR in the skin, so better to use T on the scrotum? What carriers do you deem amongst the safest, given that this is a very delicate/sensitive application site.

Yes there is a lot of 5AR on the scrotum so a lot of DHT is created. Higher doses of T does lead to higher E, but that might only really become a problem at around 50mg daily or if someone has inflammation or overexpresses aromatase.

 

[Motorneuron]

Should be fine, but not needed. Topical K2, thyroid or DHEA and preg should have a much better effect on increasing T. Also, androgens potently increase AR, so I'd rather apply an androgen there if that's your goal. Something strong like T or DHT.

Thanks Hans, do you think butter applied to the skin can protect against sunlight? does saturated fat penetrate or do you still need a carrier such as DSMO / alcohol?

 

[Motorneuron]

Wouldn’t a large portion of T convert to DHT anyway due to 5AR in the skin, so better to use T on the scrotum? What carriers do you deem amongst the safest, given that this is a very delicate/sensitive application site.

Could these applications partially block the HPA axis in the long run?

 

[Hans]

Thanks Hans, do you think butter applied to the skin can protect against sunlight? does saturated fat penetrate or do you still need a carrier such as DSMO / alcohol?

It might you can try. Saturated fat can be absorbed through the skin quite effectively. For me, I use topical niacinamide, aspirin and caffeine, like SolBan. Lanolin is also good.

 

[Nomane Euger]

It might you can try. Saturated fat can be absorbed through the skin quite effectively. For me, I use topical niacinamide, aspirin and caffeine, like SolBan. Lanolin is also good.

Hi,do you have any perspective on penis and testicules sun exposure,potential benefits,optimal duration?

 

[Hans]

Hi,do you have any perspective on penis and testicules sun exposure,potential benefits,optimal duration?

I don't think there is a downside to not getting light there, so adding light might not have additional benefits. Light will likely enhance blood flow when shown directly on the penis, which will give you the idea it's helping. Maybe for someone who has a broken penis, sunlight might be helpful.

 

[AgentCranberry]

Should be fine, but not needed. Topical K2, thyroid or DHEA and preg should have a much better effect on increasing T. Also, androgens potently increase AR, so I'd rather apply an androgen there if that's your goal. Something strong like T or DHT.

How did you come to the conclusion that the scrotal applications of substances is safe? IIrc, Peat is against that (maybe someone has the quote at hand).

To me, his stand makes sense as you potentially achieve a very high concentration in the parenchyma with unknown effects. Personally, I would only experiment with that if there is a sufficient medical reason and one's wife is definitely above child-bearing age.

 

[Santosh]

How did you come to the conclusion that the scrotal applications of substances is safe? IIrc, Peat is against that (maybe someone has the quote at hand).

To me, his stand makes sense as you potentially achieve a very high concentration in the parenchyma with unknown effects. Personally, I would only experiment with that if there is a sufficient medical reason and one's wife is definitely above child-bearing age.

There's nothing magical about scrotal skin aside from the fact that it's so thin that it allows for 8x the absorption that the abdomen skin allows.

It's not because it's close to testicles that the product you apply will have a direct testicular impact. The product has to go through the general circulation first just like it would if applied to any other skin part.

 

[AgentCranberry]

There's nothing magical about scrotal skin aside from the fact that it's so thin that it allows for 8x the absorption that the abdomen skin allows.

It's not because it's close to testicles that the product you apply will have a direct testicular impact. The product has to go through the general circulation first just like it would if applied to any other skin part.

Do you have any data whether it is really only entering the general circulation without achieving a higher local concentration in the testicle?

To me, the effect some men ascribe to scrotal application of certain substances raises the suspicion that it results in a higher local concentrations. Could of course be placebo for them or a simple bias by me (I just think I noticed this when reading).

 

[VitoScaletta]

Could these applications partially block the HPA axis in the long run?

Yep applying T or DHT would shut you down

 

[Hans]

How did you come to the conclusion that the scrotal applications of substances is safe? IIrc, Peat is against that (maybe someone has the quote at hand).

To me, his stand makes sense as you potentially achieve a very high concentration in the parenchyma with unknown effects. Personally, I would only experiment with that if there is a sufficient medical reason and one's wife is definitely above child-bearing age.

We definitely need long term studies on that, but short-term studies with scrotal TRT didn't find any sides. A few people have used scrotal K2, preg and DHEA and seen a massive increase in T.

 

[Santosh]

To me, the effect some men ascribe to scrotal application of certain substances raises the suspicion that it results in a higher local concentrations.

It only means that any hormone applied to the scrotum will get massively 5 alpha reduced before entering the general circulation, not necessarily that there are higher local concentrations.

If you think about it logically, how to you want such a thin skin to act as a reservoir like the abdomen skin does ...

 

[AgentCranberry]

We definitely need long term studies on that, but short-term studies with scrotal TRT didn't find any sides. A few people have used scrotal K2, preg and DHEA and seen a massive increase in T.

The increase in testosterone some report with non-steroidal substances is what leads me to the suspicion that there might be a higher concentration in the parenchyma compared to the one that would be reached by a purely systemic distribution.

My concern is that there might be e.g. mutagenic effects with certain substances if that is the case.

I think the principle "First do no harm" applies here before we have more data. I am totally fine with scrotal application of substances for medical reasons in men that have wives clearly above child-bearing age. However, to suggest it to young men seems irresponsible to me, especially as a lifestyle-modification.

Of course I don't rule out that effects can simply be caused by the high absportion capacity, I am just arguing that we are too unsure.

It only means that any hormone applied to the scrotum will get massively 5 alpha reduced before entering the general circulation, not necessarily that there are higher local concentrations.

If you think about it logically, how to you want such a thin skin to act as a reservoir like the abdomen skin does ...

(the answer above is for you, too)

Edit: As I said above, to the best of my knowledge Ray Peat was against scrotal application. The quote must be here on the forum, maybe someone can find it?

 

[Hans]

The increase in testosterone some report with non-steroidal substances is what leads me to the suspicion that there might be a higher concentration in the parenchyma compared to the one that would be reached by a purely systemic distribution.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Higher concentrations of steroids in the testes compared to the circulation with scrotal K2 for example?

My concern is that there might be e.g. mutagenic effects with certain substances if that is the case.

From what I've seen, the main mutagen is estrogen. And yes estrogen can go very high in free T goes very high. One guy who used scrotal K2 with DHEA and preg got very high free T and estradiol as a result in a matter of 1 week.

As I said above, to the best of my knowledge Ray Peat was against scrotal application. The quote must be here on the forum, maybe someone can find it?

IIRC Peat was mostly against doing so as it might change the lipids in the testes or something like that. I'm not sure what he meant, since dietary things also change the lipids in the testes. I haven't seen any research looking at it either.

 

[cremes]

At any given moment, there are probably a dozen threads active where people are rubbing various substances on their genitals. At some point one must just realize that the substance itself is merely the excuse for the application.

Enjoy!

 

[AgentCranberry]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Higher concentrations of steroids in the testes compared to the circulation with scrotal K2 for example?

No, a higher concentration of the applied substance than the one that would be reached by systemic application.

From what I've seen, the main mutagen is estrogen. And yes estrogen can go very high in free T goes very high. One guy who used scrotal K2 with DHEA and preg got very high free T and estradiol as a result in a matter of 1 week.

The concern is that we don't know whether the scrotal application of various substances is safe or not. Therefore, if the possibility of fathering children is given, I would say it is not appropriate to promote that route of administration.

IIRC Peat was mostly against doing so as it might change the lipids in the testes or something like that. I'm not sure what he meant, since dietary things also change the lipids in the testes. I haven't seen any research looking at it either.

Yes, I remember something like that, too. I think we can conclude that he shares my concern about scrotally applied substances possibly reaching a higher concentration in the parenchyma.
Well, I guess the body is (within limits) equipped to handle dietary changes and I assume there are regulatory mechanisms in place if necessary (I do not know anything specifically about the lipids in the testicle). That might not apply to a direct, unphysiological application.

 

[Hans]

The concern is that we don't know whether the scrotal application of various substances is safe or not. Therefore, if the possibility of fathering children is given, I would say it is not appropriate to promote that route of administration

I understand your concern, but it doesn't make sense that something like DHEA, preg or K2 would suddenly cause some sort of birth defect if the father applies it in his scrotum vs on his shoulders vs taking it orally. Finasteride has the same sides if take orally or applied topically. Another example is metformin. Babies born from fathers who use metformin have a 3x higher risk of getting genital defects compared to those who don't use it. I don't think metformin would suddenly become more toxic if applied on the scrotum.

I can understand that perhaps a substance is an anti-oxidant in small doses but then becomes a pro-oxidant in high doses. But that would just cause sperm damage (and not mutation) and not necessarily increase the risk of getting a deformed baby. Rather, you're just becoming more infertile.