Cyproheptadine - Liquid Serotonin Antagonist For Lab/R&D

[Owen B]

Yes, I would say lisuride would pair best with cypro. Or using metergoline on its own if pure serotonin antagonism is what's needed.

Hey Haidut......I'm not sure what you mean by "...if pure serotonin antagonism is what's needed" ? And why not focus on "mental effects"?

I don't have high prolactin, but have a ton of brain fog. That's why I'm feeding my rat Metergoline. To get rid of the brain fog on a regular basis would be fantastic. But I don't know if that's a focus of the Cypro. Which I used for that purpose. And got enormous exhilaration. I'd say that's the serotonin antagonism. Unfortunately, it doesn't do that anymore.

 

[haidut]

Hey Haidut......I'm not sure what you mean by "...if pure serotonin antagonism is what's needed" ? And why not focus on "mental effects"?

I don't have high prolactin, but have a ton of brain fog. That's why I'm feeding my rat Metergoline. To get rid of the brain fog on a regular basis would be fantastic. But I don't know if that's a focus of the Cypro. Which I used for that purpose. And got enormous exhilaration. I'd say that's the serotonin antagonism. Unfortunately, it doesn't do that anymore.

I meant that lisuride is both a serotonin antagonist (mixed) and dopamine agonist. Metergoline is not know to have any direct dopamine agonism but achieves dopaminergic effects that through 5-HT1 antagonism (which raises dopamine). So, metergoline possibly avoids the dopamine receptor downregulation from direct dopamine agonists.

 

[DaveFoster]

I meant that lisuride is both a serotonin antagonist (mixed) and dopamine agonist. Metergoline is not know to have any direct dopamine agonism but achieves dopaminergic effects that through 5-HT1 antagonism (which raises dopamine). So, metergoline possibly avoids the dopamine receptor downregulation from direct dopamine agonists.

@charlie

This should go in the quote section.

 

[Owen B]

I meant that lisuride is both a serotonin antagonist (mixed) and dopamine agonist. Metergoline is not know to have any direct dopamine agonism but achieves dopaminergic effects that through 5-HT1 antagonism (which raises dopamine). So, metergoline possibly avoids the dopamine receptor downregulation from direct dopamine agonists.

Thanks very much for the reply.

So what you're saying is that Met increases dopamine indirectly while Lisuride, being a direct dopamine agonist, runs the risk of causing eventual dopamine downregulation?? That "pure serotonin antagonism" in Met means the dopamine bumpiness is avoided??

I know this is off-track, but is that bumpiness in Lisuride avoided by smaller doses??

 

[haidut]

Thanks very much for the reply.

So what you're saying is that Met increases dopamine indirectly while Lisuride, being a direct dopamine agonist, runs the risk of causing eventual dopamine downregulation?? That "pure serotonin antagonism" in Met means the dopamine bumpiness is avoided??

I know this is off-track, but is that bumpiness in Lisuride avoided by smaller doses??

This is discussed in many other threads. Please search for "dopamine agonist downregulation".

 

[jb116]

I was reading about the lack of info regarding using Cypro topically but I can attest to the fact that it does work topically.
Female rat used it for seasonal allergy and male rat for digestive disturbance with history of crohn's. Never going over Ray's recommendation,
.5mg was used each time (1 drop). Consequently there was no apparent dopamine down regulation or "zombification." Even after a week's worth of use.

 

[haidut]

I was reading about the lack of info regarding using Cypro topically but I can attest to the fact that it does work topically.
Female rat used it for seasonal allergy and male rat for digestive disturbance with history of crohn's. Never going over Ray's recommendation,
.5mg was used each time (1 drop). Consequently there was no apparent dopamine down regulation or "zombification." Even after a week's worth of use.

Amazing! Thanks so much for sharing!

 

[cyclops]

How long would this product last, sitting in a dark cupboard? Would it still be good after a year?

 

[haidut]

How long would this product last, sitting in a dark cupboard? Would it still be good after a year?

FDA regulations say all liquid products have to be advertised as having no more than 12 months of shelf life. So, up to year of proper storage should be good.

 

[cyclops]

FDA regulations say all liquid products have to be advertised as having no more than 12 months of shelf life

In practice, do you think this is about right as well? So one should probably discard liquid products if they've had them more then a year? Or do you think many products could actually last much longer and are worth experimenting with?

 

[haidut]

In practice, do you think this is about right as well? So one should probably discard liquid products if they've had them more then a year? Or do you think many products could actually last much longer and are worth experimenting with?

I think that if the material is stable like say saturated fat or its esters, or contains tocopherol or saturated steroids then the 12 month mark is probably too short. These chemicals have been known to survive in pristine condition for years, but I think the 12 month mark is a good start as mold or some other pathogen may begin to grow in bottles. In our case, all products contain either an antiseptic either in the ingredients or the solvents so probably not a concern. But still, it is probably a good idea to be examine a liquid product (that has been sitting for a year) before use.

 

[cyclops]

I think that if the material is stable like say saturated fat or its esters, or contains tocopherol or saturated steroids then the 12 month mark is probably too short. These chemicals have been known to survive in pristine condition for years, but I think the 12 month mark is a good start as mold or some other pathogen may begin to grow in bottles. In our case, all products contain either an antiseptic either in the ingredients or the solvents so probably not a concern. But still, it is probably a good idea to be examine a liquid product (that has been sitting for a year) before use.

Interesting. So it seems the main concern is mold or some other pathogen could develop, before the the product would just lose potency. Maybe refrigeration would help with preserving many idea labs products then. Is there a place where specific storage is recommended for every idea labs product?

 

[haidut]

Interesting. So it seems the main concern is mold or some other pathogen could develop, before the the product would just lose potency. Maybe refrigeration would help with preserving many idea labs products then. Is there a place where specific storage is recommended for every idea labs product?

No need to refrigerate since as I mentioned our products all have either an ingredient or solvent that keeps such organisms from developing.

 

[Waynish]

Ideas for remedying vertigo side effects when a rat has taken too much?

 

[johnwester130]

Why did this man have a "spiritual" experience with cypro ?

How similar is this to LSD ?

 

[haidut]

Why did this man have a "spiritual" experience with cypro ?

How similar is this to LSD ?

Not similar at all. Bromocriptine, cabergoline, lisuride, etc are LSD derivatives. Cypro probably lowered cortisol and opposes serotonin to a point where his senses opened up and he was able to appreciate the world in its beauty. High serotonin/cortisol gives people "tunnel vision".

 

[Texon]

Not similar at all. Bromocriptine, cabergoline, lisuride, etc are LSD derivatives. Cypro probably lowered cortisol and opposes serotonin to a point where his senses opened up and he was able to appreciate the world in its beauty. High serotonin/cortisol gives people "tunnel vision".

@DaveFoster @Koveras
I wanted to post this here with links to frequent posters hoping this might help someone....here is the content of a recent string of emails between haidut and me about cyproheptadine, thyroid, etc. Since this is a cut/paste from email, must read from the bottom up.

I am only 2 days into this (only took 1 mg about an hour before bed last night), but I notice vast improvement in sleep and GI issues already. I forgot to add I have taken digestive enzymes every meal as well for years since I no longer have a gallbladder. I will try to post again in a few days. I don't use the word miracle in a frivolous way, but this comes close. Hopefully the benefits continue indefinitely.

On Friday, April 13, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:



I think you should definitely post this on the forum. Quite a few people there struggle with GI issues, usually related to stress, so they would be quite interested in hearing your experience.


From:
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 12:02:52 AM
To: IdeaLabs Customer Service
Subject: Re: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

Amazing. Thanks for the idea about relora and the link to cortisol. I have to say, I tried 1 mg cypro (Rx 4 mg tabs) last night having never taken more than a very small amount out of concern it would be a negative experience like benadryl. I can't remember when I had such a good nights sleep. Plus, some stomach discomfort after dinner went away, and I was able to eat some things today that would normally give me trouble. I also felt warmer all day but never took my temperature to confirm it. And, to top it off, my normal job stress did not impact me the way it usually does. So the idea about cyproheptadine antagonism of cortisol, serotonin, anti inflammatory and the like is making sense. I have to think also some regular methyl B12 has benefited also. But, in all it seems the cypro is helping somehow in numerous but very subway ways. Maybe I should post this on the forum.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Thursday, April 12, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:

Most gastric ulcers not due to H. pylori infection are due to excessive cortisol, hence the quote in that link that 93% of race horses have ulcers. So, in addition to this product you can also try another herbal one called Relora, which was also shown in animal models to rapidly heal ulcers. Google for "relora" for more info.


From:
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:42:07 AM
To: IdeaLabs Customer Service
Subject: Re: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

Good advice. They have more fear about thyroid than any of the killer drugs advertised all over the place these days.

If my latest attempts don't work, I am going to try this next no kidding.

Jeremiah's Ulcer Repulser™

Heck I may give it a try anyway since all the ingredients are very safe.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:

Wow, did not know about Armor. I guess the doctors would do just about anything before they consider thyroid dysfunction as an issue. PPI and SSRI pills seem to be the go to treatment for any malady.

I would stick with cypro for a week or two and take a break every 2 weeks or so but if it is helping then I would use it in lower doses (1mg-2mg) daily. A grain of NDT would likely not hurt even according to the paranoid medical standards but I would still let the doctor know, just in case he has anything informative to say.


From:
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:47:58 PM
To: IdeaLabs Customer Service
Subject: Re: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

By the way don't know if you had heard but Armour is now on some kind of physician watch list called Beers that identifies high risk drugs for anyone at 65 or older. Armour is listed as such, and I just got turned down for a trial of it the other day due to my age and the fact that "my thyroid numbers are in line."

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:

Hi G,



I think TyroMax (our NDT product) would be the most benign to try first. Most people seem to respond well to 6-7 drops daily (1 grain) but some take up to the full 20 drop dose (3 grains) in divided daily doses.

Vitamins B1&B2 help the liver excrete estrogen and maybe even some antiserotonin like cypro can be tried if you have symptoms of serotonin excess like poor digestion, IBS, mood swings, agitation, nervousness, etc. Of course, I would advise asking a doctor first before doing any of these.

Just my 2c.



--Georgi


From:
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 2:46:34 PM
To:
Subject: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

Haidut hope your day is going well.

Of all the thyroid supps you have, what in your opinion would be the least intensive one to aid an increase in my metabolic rate/body temp? Morning temps consistently range high 96s to low 97s. Had one episode where I took a very small amount of cytomel/t3 one morning and temp fell to 95!

Have a Rx for synthroid but have not refilled it or used it consistently. Had Rx for Armour quite a while ago, and it seemed to help initially but I developed some odd sensitivity to it and stopped it. Recent testing showed high range t3, low range t4 (about 70 iirc) and tsh of 1.5. Just took temp midday and it was 97* F. I do take Tcyp injectable 25 mgs e3d and higher dose methyl B12 due to malabsorption and elevated homocysteine issues, but it has been tough to find the right dose. Also have very slow breakdown of stress neurotransmitters due to COMT snps etc., inefficient E2 clearance and glutamate/gaba imbalances due to COMT snps so caffeine and other stimulants can be difficult to tolerate. Tried pregnenolone a long time ago, and it was too stimulating.

FWIW, I had a pretty severe head trauma about 28 years ago from a car wreck followed by tryptophan sickness/EMS a year later. Wonder if the effects from those are still lingering.

I appreciate any suggestions you might have, as I think everything points to thyroid in the end even some childhood things I recall. My body weight is ideal, and I was typically underweight until age 20's onward. I have never been overweight. Outwardly I appear extremely healthy like someone 15- 20 years younger than my age. I will be 67 this September.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:



Wow, did not know about Armor. I guess the doctors would do just about anything before they consider thyroid dysfunction as an issue. PPI and SSRI pills seem to be the go to treatment for any malady.

I would stick with cypro for a week or two and take a break every 2 weeks or so but if it is helping then I would use it in lower doses (1mg-2mg) daily. A grain of NDT would likely not hurt even according to the paranoid medical standards but I would still let the doctor know, just in case he has anything informative to say.


From:
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:47:58 PM
To: IdeaLabs Customer Service
Subject: Re: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

By the way don't know if you had heard but Armour is now on some kind of physician watch list called Beers that identifies high risk drugs for anyone at 65 or older. Armour is listed as such, and I just got turned down for a trial of it the other day due to my age and the fact that "my thyroid numbers are in line."

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:

Hi G,



I think TyroMax (our NDT product) would be the most benign to try first. Most people seem to respond well to 6-7 drops daily (1 grain) but some take up to the full 20 drop dose (3 grains) in divided daily doses.

Vitamins B1&B2 help the liver excrete estrogen and maybe even some antiserotonin like cypro can be tried if you have symptoms of serotonin excess like poor digestion, IBS, mood swings, agitation, nervousness, etc. Of course, I would advise asking a doctor first before doing any of these.

Just my 2c.



--Georgi


From:
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 2:46:34 PM
To:
Subject: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

Haidut hope your day is going well.

Of all the thyroid supps you have, what in your opinion would be the least intensive one to aid an increase in my metabolic rate/body temp? Morning temps consistently range high 96s to low 97s. Had one episode where I took a very small amount of cytomel/t3 one morning and temp fell to 95!

Have a Rx for synthroid but have not refilled it or used it consistently. Had Rx for Armour quite a while ago, and it seemed to help initially but I developed some odd sensitivity to it and stopped it. Recent testing showed high range t3, low range t4 (about 70 iirc) and tsh of 1.5. Just took temp midday and it was 97* F. I do take Tcyp injectable 25 mgs e3d and higher dose methyl B12 due to malabsorption and elevated homocysteine issues, but it has been tough to find the right dose. Also have very slow breakdown of stress neurotransmitters due to COMT snps etc., inefficient E2 clearance and glutamate/gaba imbalances due to COMT snps so caffeine and other stimulants can be difficult to tolerate. Tried pregnenolone a long time ago, and it was too stimulating.

FWIW, I had a pretty severe head trauma about 28 years ago from a car wreck followed by tryptophan sickness/EMS a year later. Wonder if the effects from those are still lingering.

I appreciate any suggestions you might have, as I think everything points to thyroid in the end even some childhood things I recall. My body weight is ideal, and I was typically underweight until age 20's onward. I have never been overweight. Outwardly I appear extremely healthy like someone 15- 20 years younger than my age. I will be 67 this September.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 

[Luckytype]

@Texon hit edit and go through and remove your email links in your post that you copied. The last thing you want is more spam from website crawlers

I see it about 6 times

 

[Koveras]

@DaveFoster @Koveras
I wanted to post this here with links to frequent posters hoping this might help someone....here is the content of a recent string of emails between haidut and me about cyproheptadine, thyroid, etc. Since this is a cut/paste from email, must read from the bottom up.

I am only 2 days into this (only took 1 mg about an hour before bed last night), but I notice vast improvement in sleep and GI issues already. I forgot to add I have taken digestive enzymes every meal as well for years since I no longer have a gallbladder. I will try to post again in a few days. I don't use the word miracle in a frivolous way, but this comes close. Hopefully the benefits continue indefinitely.

On Friday, April 13, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:



I think you should definitely post this on the forum. Quite a few people there struggle with GI issues, usually related to stress, so they would be quite interested in hearing your experience.


From: Glen Fuller
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 12:02:52 AM
To: IdeaLabs Customer Service
Subject: Re: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

Amazing. Thanks for the idea about relora and the link to cortisol. I have to say, I tried 1 mg cypro (Rx 4 mg tabs) last night having never taken more than a very small amount out of concern it would be a negative experience like benadryl. I can't remember when I had such a good nights sleep. Plus, some stomach discomfort after dinner went away, and I was able to eat some things today that would normally give me trouble. I also felt warmer all day but never took my temperature to confirm it. And, to top it off, my normal job stress did not impact me the way it usually does. So the idea about cyproheptadine antagonism of cortisol, serotonin, anti inflammatory and the like is making sense. I have to think also some regular methyl B12 has benefited also. But, in all it seems the cypro is helping somehow in numerous but very subway ways. Maybe I should post this on the forum.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Thursday, April 12, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:

Most gastric ulcers not due to H. pylori infection are due to excessive cortisol, hence the quote in that link that 93% of race horses have ulcers. So, in addition to this product you can also try another herbal one called Relora, which was also shown in animal models to rapidly heal ulcers. Google for "relora" for more info.


From: Glen Fuller
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:42:07 AM
To: IdeaLabs Customer Service
Subject: Re: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

Good advice. They have more fear about thyroid than any of the killer drugs advertised all over the place these days.

If my latest attempts don't work, I am going to try this next no kidding.

Jeremiah's Ulcer Repulser™

Heck I may give it a try anyway since all the ingredients are very safe.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:

Wow, did not know about Armor. I guess the doctors would do just about anything before they consider thyroid dysfunction as an issue. PPI and SSRI pills seem to be the go to treatment for any malady.

I would stick with cypro for a week or two and take a break every 2 weeks or so but if it is helping then I would use it in lower doses (1mg-2mg) daily. A grain of NDT would likely not hurt even according to the paranoid medical standards but I would still let the doctor know, just in case he has anything informative to say.


From: Glen Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:47:58 PM
To: IdeaLabs Customer Service
Subject: Re: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

By the way don't know if you had heard but Armour is now on some kind of physician watch list called Beers that identifies high risk drugs for anyone at 65 or older. Armour is listed as such, and I just got turned down for a trial of it the other day due to my age and the fact that "my thyroid numbers are in line."

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:

Hi Glen,



I think TyroMax (our NDT product) would be the most benign to try first. Most people seem to respond well to 6-7 drops daily (1 grain) but some take up to the full 20 drop dose (3 grains) in divided daily doses.

Vitamins B1&B2 help the liver excrete estrogen and maybe even some antiserotonin like cypro can be tried if you have symptoms of serotonin excess like poor digestion, IBS, mood swings, agitation, nervousness, etc. Of course, I would advise asking a doctor first before doing any of these.

Just my 2c.



--Georgi


From: Glen Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 2:46:34 PM
To:
Subject: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

Haidut hope your day is going well.

Of all the thyroid supps you have, what in your opinion would be the least intensive one to aid an increase in my metabolic rate/body temp? Morning temps consistently range high 96s to low 97s. Had one episode where I took a very small amount of cytomel/t3 one morning and temp fell to 95!

Have a Rx for synthroid but have not refilled it or used it consistently. Had Rx for Armour quite a while ago, and it seemed to help initially but I developed some odd sensitivity to it and stopped it. Recent testing showed high range t3, low range t4 (about 70 iirc) and tsh of 1.5. Just took temp midday and it was 97* F. I do take Tcyp injectable 25 mgs e3d and higher dose methyl B12 due to malabsorption and elevated homocysteine issues, but it has been tough to find the right dose. Also have very slow breakdown of stress neurotransmitters due to COMT snps etc., inefficient E2 clearance and glutamate/gaba imbalances due to COMT snps so caffeine and other stimulants can be difficult to tolerate. Tried pregnenolone a long time ago, and it was too stimulating.

FWIW, I had a pretty severe head trauma about 28 years ago from a car wreck followed by tryptophan sickness/EMS a year later. Wonder if the effects from those are still lingering.

I appreciate any suggestions you might have, as I think everything points to thyroid in the end even some childhood things I recall. My body weight is ideal, and I was typically underweight until age 20's onward. I have never been overweight. Outwardly I appear extremely healthy like someone 15- 20 years younger than my age. I will be 67 this September.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:



Wow, did not know about Armor. I guess the doctors would do just about anything before they consider thyroid dysfunction as an issue. PPI and SSRI pills seem to be the go to treatment for any malady.

I would stick with cypro for a week or two and take a break every 2 weeks or so but if it is helping then I would use it in lower doses (1mg-2mg) daily. A grain of NDT would likely not hurt even according to the paranoid medical standards but I would still let the doctor know, just in case he has anything informative to say.


From: Glen Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:47:58 PM
To: IdeaLabs Customer Service
Subject: Re: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

By the way don't know if you had heard but Armour is now on some kind of physician watch list called Beers that identifies high risk drugs for anyone at 65 or older. Armour is listed as such, and I just got turned down for a trial of it the other day due to my age and the fact that "my thyroid numbers are in line."

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 IdeaLabs Customer Service wrote:

Hi Glen,



I think TyroMax (our NDT product) would be the most benign to try first. Most people seem to respond well to 6-7 drops daily (1 grain) but some take up to the full 20 drop dose (3 grains) in divided daily doses.

Vitamins B1&B2 help the liver excrete estrogen and maybe even some antiserotonin like cypro can be tried if you have symptoms of serotonin excess like poor digestion, IBS, mood swings, agitation, nervousness, etc. Of course, I would advise asking a doctor first before doing any of these.

Just my 2c.



--Georgi


From: Glen Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 2:46:34 PM
To:
Subject: Thyroid ? From Texon at raypeatforum

Haidut hope your day is going well.

Of all the thyroid supps you have, what in your opinion would be the least intensive one to aid an increase in my metabolic rate/body temp? Morning temps consistently range high 96s to low 97s. Had one episode where I took a very small amount of cytomel/t3 one morning and temp fell to 95!

Have a Rx for synthroid but have not refilled it or used it consistently. Had Rx for Armour quite a while ago, and it seemed to help initially but I developed some odd sensitivity to it and stopped it. Recent testing showed high range t3, low range t4 (about 70 iirc) and tsh of 1.5. Just took temp midday and it was 97* F. I do take Tcyp injectable 25 mgs e3d and higher dose methyl B12 due to malabsorption and elevated homocysteine issues, but it has been tough to find the right dose. Also have very slow breakdown of stress neurotransmitters due to COMT snps etc., inefficient E2 clearance and glutamate/gaba imbalances due to COMT snps so caffeine and other stimulants can be difficult to tolerate. Tried pregnenolone a long time ago, and it was too stimulating.

FWIW, I had a pretty severe head trauma about 28 years ago from a car wreck followed by tryptophan sickness/EMS a year later. Wonder if the effects from those are still lingering.

I appreciate any suggestions you might have, as I think everything points to thyroid in the end even some childhood things I recall. My body weight is ideal, and I was typically underweight until age 20's onward. I have never been overweight. Outwardly I appear extremely healthy like someone 15- 20 years younger than my age. I will be 67 this September.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

Thanks for sharing

I had a similar experience with a friend with long standing digestive issues - prescribed ondansetron which helped a lot but was very expensive. Switched to a low dose of cyproheptadine in the evening and achieved the same relief. Was eventually able to taper off completely.

Note - some emails were duplicated above.

 

[Wagner83]

Haidut, is there any reason to mention cyproheptadine as the go-to anti-serotonin chemical rather than metergoline?