Cyproheptadine Exacerbates Fatty Liver And Can Increase Estrogen

[Mhouse]

Hi @ddjd , I know this thread is older, but I was curious about your experience with the phosphatidylcholine supplement a year or so later: have you seen the progress you were looking for? Improvement in liver health, cholinergic tone?

 

[Basonh]

I mentioned this recently in a thread but thought I would make a separate post about it.

Cyproheptadine and other antihistamines like benadryl, because of their strong anticholinergic properties, will increase fatty liver in those predisposed to low Choline levels.

I myself have a genetic predisposition for very low Choline, meaning the anticholinergics peat often recommends are a terrible idea because Choline is essential for estrogen detoxification and reduction of fatty liver.

For years I was using cyproheptadine without understanding it was making my fatty liver and overall estrogenicity much much worse.

I've just started supplementing phosphatidylcholine and at last my belly is getting flat, manboobs reducing a lot, etc.

For those with a well functioning PEMT enzyme and good choline levels I can absolutely see the benefits of cyproheptadine, but anyone with possible fatty liver issues and low Choline, I would strongly recommend to avoid.

I noticed that as well experimenting with choline and antihistamines. What brand of phosphatidylcholine do you use?

 

[dukesbobby777]

I don’t understand this thread. Surely choline is a nutritional precursor to acetylcholine. And an essential one at that. Saying that cyproheptadine promotes fatty liver because it’s anti-cholinergic doesnt mean that it stops the systematic functions of choline (which would include shuttling fat away from the liver).

It’s like saying that metergoline (a serotonin antagonist) is going to stop the systemic functions of tryptophan in the body. It wouldn’t stop tryptophan turning into serotonin. Metergoline just antagonises many serotonin receptors. Just like cyproheptadine antagonises certain cholinergic receptors. That’s a brain function. A neuronal function. Completely separate from what choline or tryptophan do in the body.

So by this logic, Peat (who is pro anything anti-cholinergic) is pro people getting fatty liver. Apparently caffeine (or coffee, I cannot remember) is also anti-cholinergic. Does coffee therefore make you fat?

Cyproheptadine can make certain people gain weight because of the increased appetite. That’s what we're told.

@haidut what are your thoughts ??

 

[Herbie]

Cyproheptadine blocks cortisol so if the person is under stress and is hypothyroid and operating on adrenaline and cortisol and using fat as energy and burning fat then starts taking cyproheptadine which stops this stress induced fat burning, this could lead to weight gain.

This is the same reason why everyone going from low calorie, low carb diet to Peat diet having all these new things which lower stress hormones and stop the stress induced fat burning and muscle wasting, they start putting on weight which is a sign of health.

I think the best person to ask about this is @Terma he talks about cyproheptadine and choline.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Cyproheptadine blocks cortisol so if the person is under stress and is hypothyroid and operating on adrenaline and cortisol and using fat as energy and burning fat then starts taking cyproheptadine which stops this stress induced fat burning, this could lead to weight gain.

This is the same reason why everyone going from low calorie, low carb diet to Peat diet having all these new things which lower stress hormones and stop the stress induced fat burning and muscle wasting, they start putting on weight which is a sign of health.

I think the best person to ask about this is @Terma he talks about cyproheptadine and choline.

I find this interesting because when I started using cypro I barely had any cortisol left in my body & my adrenals we're limping along.

So the concept that the weight gain is from lowering high cortisol doesn't apply to me. In fact I was actually concerned about what it would do considering my cortisol levels were already dangerously low.

Yet, I packed on 8+ pounds in two months from Cypro after a year of slowly & evenly gaining from pro-metabolic eating.

It did make me hungrier for the first few weeks but after that my hunger cues returned to normal.

All the places I've gained on in the last few months are for sure indictive of a rise in estrogen, which I was low in.

Anyhow just thought I'd share.

 

[Herbie]

I find this interesting because when I started using cypro I barely had any cortisol left in my body & my adrenals we're limping along.

So the concept that the weight gain is from lowering high cortisol doesn't apply to me. In fact I was actually concerned about what it would do considering my cortisol levels were already dangerously low.

Yet, I packed on 8+ pounds in two months from Cypro after a year of slowly & evenly gaining from pro-metabolic eating.

It did make me hungrier for the first few weeks but after that my hunger cues returned to normal.

All the places I've gained on in the last few months are for sure indictive of a rise in estrogen, which I was low in.

Anyhow just thought I'd share.

We can speculate the the increased hunger is from the lowering of stress hormones.

 

[I'm.No.One]

We can speculate the the increased hunger is from the lowering of stress hormones.

If my stress hormones drop any lower I'd be in an adrenaline crisis.

Possibly serotonin, yeah I know that's a stress hormone. But it's for sure not from lowering my cortisol/adrenaline because they're already on the floor.

 

[Herbie]

If my stress hormones drop any lower I'd be in an adrenaline crisis.

Possibly serotonin, yeah I know that's a stress hormone. But it's for sure not from lowering my cortisol/adrenaline because they're already on the floor.

The way I under stand it, is that the adrenal hormones are there for acute stressful emergency situations but primarily a healthy persons thyroid gland will working and the HPA axis in the background.

People after becoming hypothyroid chronically start relying on the HPA axis to take over from the thyroid and get adrenal fatigue where they stop producing Adrenalin and cortisol. Is this what your talking about?

 

[dukesbobby777]

Cyproheptadine blocks cortisol so if the person is under stress and is hypothyroid and operating on adrenaline and cortisol and using fat as energy and burning fat then starts taking cyproheptadine which stops this stress induced fat burning, this could lead to weight gain.

This is the same reason why everyone going from low calorie, low carb diet to Peat diet having all these new things which lower stress hormones and stop the stress induced fat burning and muscle wasting, they start putting on weight which is a sign of health.

I think the best person to ask about this is @Terma he talks about cyproheptadine and choline.

A lot of people here put that weight on the belly though. Which, apart from not looking healthy, is pretty much observed from most (if not all) health circles as being one of the worst places to put it. I think with a Peat approach you have to be very wary of the randle cycle. Either high carb/low fat or high fat/low carb seem to work for a person in terms of keeping weight healthy and not packing weight onto the belly area. Gorging on saturated fats combined with consuming unlimited amounts of fructose seems to be a dodgy combination for me anyway.

 

[Herbie]

A lot of people here put that weight on the belly though. Which, apart from not looking healthy, is pretty much observed from most (if not all) health circles as being one of the worst places to put it. I think with a Peat approach you have to be very wary of the randle cycle. Either high carb/low fat or high fat/low carb seem to work for a person in terms of keeping weight healthy and not packing weight onto the belly area. Gorging on saturated fats combined with consuming unlimited amounts of fructose seems to be a dodgy combination for me anyway.

The two things with stomach fat are it’s been found that it can be due to elevated cortisol and that it’s visceral fat than it’s not good but if it’s subcutaneous then I’m not sure.

I looked at information about sumo wrestlers and saw that they store fat everywhere but especially on the stomach but it’s subcutaneous, they have been found not to have any visceral fat so maybe it’s just a pattern the body stores fat mainly on the stomach and may not be from a hormonal problem or disease. People need to differentiate between visceral or subcutaneous stomach when when talking about it as a health risk.

Out of all athletes, sumos have he highest fat free mass which means highest muscle mass and don’t have metabolic problems. I saw a study where sumos with the highest testosterone were a predictor for success in the sport.

Ray once said about slightly overweight people have lowest risk of death and that the fat can be an electron sink to compensate for hypothyroidism.

I know they all say it’s unhealthy to be fat and have stomach fat and huge societal pressure to not be fat but I just don’t know what exactly is the healthiest way to be.

 

[tommyg130]

I mentioned this recently in a thread but thought I would make a separate post about it.

Cyproheptadine and other antihistamines like benadryl, because of their strong anticholinergic properties, will increase fatty liver in those predisposed to low Choline levels.

I myself have a genetic predisposition for very low Choline, meaning the anticholinergics peat often recommends are a terrible idea because Choline is essential for estrogen detoxification and reduction of fatty liver.

For years I was using cyproheptadine without understanding it was making my fatty liver and overall estrogenicity much much worse.

I've just started supplementing phosphatidylcholine and at last my belly is getting flat, manboobs reducing a lot, etc.

For those with a well functioning PEMT enzyme and good choline levels I can absolutely see the benefits of cyproheptadine, but anyone with possible fatty liver issues and low Choline, I would strongly recommend to avoid.

Do you have mutations in the PEMT gene? I have a lot. I think I could
Benefit from supplementing phos -choline for my liver /gallbladder. And maybe use Tudca and taurine too .. how do you know for certain you have Choline deficiency ?

 

[tommyg130]

Do you have mutations in the PEMT gene? I have a lot. I think I could
Benefit from supplementing phos -choline for my liver /gallbladder. And maybe use Tudca and taurine too .. how do you know for certain you have Choline deficiency ?

Nvm I now see you already talked about it above !

 

[ddjd]

Do you have mutations in the PEMT gene? I have a lot. I think I could
Benefit from supplementing phos -choline for my liver /gallbladder. And maybe use Tudca and taurine too .. how do you know for certain you have Choline deficiency ?

Hey Tommy yes all of my PEMT genes are ****88. Homozygous. Be careful you don't want to take too much choline but people like us really do need topping every now and again

 

[tommyg130]

So I just used self decode 4 years later. What’s funny is they have about 18 variants now for PEMT. And the percentage changed very much. And only the 4s7946 is still there. So the other 2 in your picture above they got rid of. But added many other ones

 

[tommyg130]

Hey Tommy yes all of my PEMT genes are ****88. Homozygous. Be careful you don't want to take too much choline but people like us really do need topping every now and again

What do you think of my screenshot? Could benefit from choline supps ? I also checked the other genes someone wrote above related to PEMF and I have a lot of homo for them

 

[ddjd]

So I just used self decode 4 years later. What’s funny is they have about 18 variants now for PEMT. And the percentage changed very much. And only the 4s7946 is still there. So the other 2 in your picture above they got rid of. But added many other ones

Interesting I'll have to log back in to have a look.

This post is pretty old but reading it back I want to clarify as much as I put on significant weight gain when I started cyproheptadine (I also started T3 and progesterone around the same time) I gained many many things in terms of better mental health, stopped my male pattern baldness, amazing sleep, possible anti aging properties, happier in myself, significant lowering in stress.

I still use cyproheptadine but I also occasionally need some choline.

If you do supplement choline try if possible saturated forms - eggs, beef, mitolipin etc.

 

[tommyg130]

Interesting I'll have to log back in to have a look.

This post is pretty old but reading it back I want to clarify as much as I put on significant weight gain when I started cyproheptadine (I also started T3 and progesterone around the same time) I gained many many things in terms of better mental health, stopped my male pattern baldness, amazing sleep, possible anti aging properties, happier in myself, significant lowering in stress.

I still use cyproheptadine but I also occasionally need some choline.

If you do supplement choline try if possible saturated forms - eggs, beef, mitolipin etc.

I actually have a good amount of genes for low serotonin . So idk how I feel
About that , bc ik how serotonin is talked about here. But when i tried cypro once I felt horrible the next day (which is known) but I never felt good or had a positive rebound ever

 

[I'm.No.One]

So I just used self decode 4 years later. What’s funny is they have about 18 variants now for PEMT. And the percentage changed very much. And only the 4s7946 is still there. So the other 2 in your picture above they got rid of. But added many other ones

Not to sidetrack the thread but you just threw me down the rabbit hole of Self decode.

I'm uploading my DNA to their services now and I'm curious where you found this particular section at?

 

[tommyg130]

Not to sidetrack the thread but you just threw me down the rabbit hole of Self decode.

I'm uploading my DNA to their services now and I'm curious where you found this particular section at?

It’s the PEMT gene

 

[I'm.No.One]

It’s the PEMT gene

Thanks!