Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

[katiekeen]

Blossom- you mentioned you had high gut serotonin indicating a carcinoid tumour. I also have extremely high serotonin-should I be worried about a carinoid tumour? Isn't that cancer? Thanks

 

[Blossom]

Technically yes. I found out 10 months after the blood work was done because my doctor at the time was so horrible. When I found out I had been feeling better compared to when that blood work was done so I decided to doctor myself. I guess I'm a bit more anti medicine than most having worked in the field for close to 20 years. My game plan is to have the whole blood serotonin drawn again in the next month or two and see where I'm at with this. Sometimes the food eaten can effect the blood work as well. I used to get the rashes associated with a carcinogenic tumor and that has resolved.

 

[Blossom]

Technically yes. I found out 10 months after the blood work was done because my doctor at the time was so horrible. When I found out I had been feeling better compared to when that blood work was done so I decided to doctor myself. I guess I'm a bit more anti medicine than most having worked in the field for close to 20 years. My game plan is to have the whole blood serotonin drawn again in the next month or two and see where I'm at with this. Sometimes the food eaten can effect the blood work as well. I used to get the rashes associated with a carcinogenic tumor and that has resolved.

The last sentence should have read carcinoid not carcinogenic.

 

[5magicbeans]

I have taken 1/2 a 4mg. pill twice now before bed time. And each time I wake up feeling groggy and irritable.
I was hoping for a little more of the "wonder".
Am I missing something?

 

[Blossom]

Cyproheptadine makes me groggy too and I have started taking it around dinnertime since I would rather be relaxed in the evening than unable to be alert at work in the mornings. I tried cutting back because I don't really like the sedation but some GI symptoms flared up. Some people only take 1/4 tablet(1 mg) and that seems enough for them. There was also a way haidut has mentioned lowering serotonin in some of his posts with BCAA. I would like to eventually wean off the cypro myself and I'm thinking spring might be a good time to try a different approach since the stress of the cold and darkness will be gone.

 

[5magicbeans]

Thanks for your reply Blossom.

It has been almost 12 hours since my dose last night and I am still groggy....
This tiredness reminds me too much of the reason why I began this journey in the first place. I think I will look into the other options...

 

[charlie]

The grogginess wears off. I started with only a small smidgeon of a pill. A half milligram is plenty for some.

 

[jyb]

It has been almost 12 hours since my dose last night and I am still groggy....

If this is your first 1-3 days starting it, then it's normal. I was sleepy in the morning the first day or two. But now I can take 50mg and only feel a light effect.

 

[Blossom]

It has been almost 12 hours since my dose last night and I am still groggy....

If this is your first 1-3 days starting it, then it's normal. I was sleepy in the morning the first day or two. But now I can take 50mg and only feel a light effect.

Wow! I take only 4-6mgs and after almost three months still feel groggy! Admittedly it is improved over time though. That illustrates how it is good to hear varying experiences.

 

[katiekeen]

Thanks for your reply Blossom. I will go to my Dr and have it checked out. I am feeling anxious now, do people die of carcinoid tumours or are they treatable?

 

[Blossom]

Thanks for your reply Blossom. I will go to my Dr and have it checked out. I am feeling anxious now, do people die of carcinoid tumours or are they treatable?

Please don't be anxious. Usually high gut serotonin doesn't mean a carcinoid tumor. I would just get the levels checked to ease your mind if you are worried. My test results said the exact words" elevated 5-HIAA indicative of a possible carcinoid tumor" so if your previous testing did not say this or the ordering physician didn't seem concerned then try to relax and get the test done. Also look up foods that can give a false high reading such as avocados. I don't believe any of the typical foods on a Peat inspired approach should give a false positive reading but it's still good information to know. You may find out that you had eaten something that causes a higher reading before your original test. I seem to recall bananas and macadamia nuts being on the list as well. I personally believe that following a Peat inspired approach has changed the environment in my gut and created an atmosphere of healing in my body. I'd rather take my chances with this approach than subject myself to surgery and radiation. It's been a year and a half since that test and I'm doing better than ever. Have the test repeated but reread RP's articles specifically searching for the topic of cancer before you make any decisions out of fear. We all have to do what we judge is right for our own unique situation but it never hurts to be well informed. Medical doctors often paint a bleak picture because that is what there experience has taught them. Some of us have chosen a different route with a different outcome, one that is just as real. Hang in there. Stress is the last thing any of us needs more of!

 

[katiekeen]

Thanks Blossom. I have had my blood serotonin tested just before Christmas and the level was 1220 nmol/l (results said "marginally high"). My Dr didn't mention anything about it. I also had my 5-HIAA tested a few years back via an organics acid test. It was high also but I didn't worry about it at the time because I was taking 5 HTP. I emailed Dr Peat about and this is his reply:

It's important to know how it was measured, and what your platelet count was. Is your intestine inflamed? Since serotonin affects bone metabolism, have your serum calcium, phosphate, parathyroid hormone, vitamin D3, prolactin, and cortisol been measured?

I then sent him my other lab results (cholesterol, T3 Vit D, Vit A, Lactic acid, prolactin, parathyroid etc.

I then asked him if I should see my Dr re a carcinoid tumour and this was his response:

I don't think doctors know what to do for regulating serotonin. Vitamin B6 helps to direct tryptophan toward niacinamide, away from serotonin. Gelatin contains no tryptophan, so things like consomme can be helpful. Raw carrots, because of their antiseptic effect, help to lower irritation and bloating. Antibiotics can be helpful, when the small intestine is overgrown with bacteria. Thyroid supplementation will lower cholesterol. Some people get very sleepy with just two milligrams of Periactin, so I think it's good to start with one mg. the first night. Two milligrams can make a big difference, and when symptoms stop the effects can last for days without using it.

I started on the Periactin (Cyproheptadine) and believe I am having good results. I have also tried to limit my meat as well (tryptophan). A few years back I was diagnosed with pyroluria (my body doesn't retain Vit B6 or zinc) and I understand B6 is required to push tryptophan down the niacin pathway rather than serotonin. My organics acid test also showed high quinolinic acid, not sure exactly how that is related

 

[Ben]

Katiekeen, you could also try tianeptine if you have a problem with serotonin. It actually gives me more physical energy, and on the days when I don't take it, I have fatigue. Mental energy would be expected, but I find it odd that physical energy increases as well. It makes me wonder if I'm still hypothyroid, or if there is some other issue.

I remember when I tried 5-HTP years ago. I felt dull and apathetic on it, so I didn't continue with it. Later I learned more about dopamine and serotonin, and came to the conclusion that serotonin isn't good because it antagonizes dopamine's lively, motivated, and joyous effects. Then I found RP's stuff and found out I was right.

The pyroluria diagnosis is interesting. Do you have sensitivity to light and sound, emotional lability, and light skin tone like a lot of people with this condition have? I would say vitamin B6 and zinc are definitely a necessity in your case. There is a whole lot of other ways vitamin B6 improves physiology and serotonin problems. Symptoms common to pyrolurics could be used to determine dosage.

 

[katiekeen]

Hey Ben, thanks for taking the time to respond. I have some tianeptine and I only tried it a couple of times. Might give it another go.
Yes, I do have symptoms of pyroluria as you mentioned. It was a diagnosis a few years ago and I admit I am not diligent with taking my B6 and zinc. Unfortunately I can't stomach liver so I need to take supplements.
I have always felt bad whenever I have taken 5HTP or tryptophan. Horrible stuff....

 

[Blossom]

Thanks Blossom. I have had my blood serotonin tested just before Christmas and the level was 1220 nmol/l (results said "marginally high"). My Dr didn't mention anything about it. I also had my 5-HIAA tested a few years back via an organics acid test. It was high also but I didn't worry about it at the time because I was taking 5 HTP. I emailed Dr Peat about and this is his reply:

It's important to know how it was measured, and what your platelet count was. Is your intestine inflamed? Since serotonin affects bone metabolism, have your serum calcium, phosphate, parathyroid hormone, vitamin D3, prolactin, and cortisol been measured?

I then sent him my other lab results (cholesterol, T3 Vit D, Vit A, Lactic acid, prolactin, parathyroid etc.

I then asked him if I should see my Dr re a carcinoid tumour and this was his response:

I don't think doctors know what to do for regulating serotonin. Vitamin B6 helps to direct tryptophan toward niacinamide, away from serotonin. Gelatin contains no tryptophan, so things like consomme can be helpful. Raw carrots, because of their antiseptic effect, help to lower irritation and bloating. Antibiotics can be helpful, when the small intestine is overgrown with bacteria. Thyroid supplementation will lower cholesterol. Some people get very sleepy with just two milligrams of Periactin, so I think it's good to start with one mg. the first night. Two milligrams can make a big difference, and when symptoms stop the effects can last for days without using it.

I started on the Periactin (Cyproheptadine) and believe I am having good results. I have also tried to limit my meat as well (tryptophan). A few years back I was diagnosed with pyroluria (my body doesn't retain Vit B6 or zinc) and I understand B6 is required to push tryptophan down the niacin pathway rather than serotonin. My organics acid test also showed high quinolinic acid, not sure exactly how that is related

you have all the answers you need! I decided to doctor my self because after years of working with medical doctors I could no longer comfortably submit to their care. I think you can shift the balance away from serotonin and are well on your way to doing just that!

 

[katiekeen]

Thanks Blossom. Good luck with your journey too

 

[iLoveSugar]

Cypro made my liver enzymes elevate.

 

[Ben]

Are you sure that was it?

 

[iLoveSugar]

It was the only thing I was on, and after eliminating it, they fell back into normal range.

After reading some more, it's not all that unocmmon.

"Hepatotoxicity
Unlike most first generation antihistamines, cyproheptadine has been associated with several instances of clinically apparent liver injury. The few cases that have been described had a time to onset of 1 to 6 weeks and a cholestatic or mixed pattern of liver enzyme elevations. Immunoallergic and autoimmune features were not present and most patients recovered rapidly without residual. Acute liver failure due to cyproheptadine has not been described".
Source- http://livertox.nlm.nih.gov/Cyproheptadine.htm

 

[jyb]

Cypro made my liver enzymes elevate.

In some of the studies, cypro is used in very high dose (compared to the 4-8mg typical dose), so I assume its rarely harmful. That said its better be safe than sorry, and with the kind of huge dose I'm experimenting with at the moment, I wonder whether I should monitor those liver enzymes...