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I took 4mg two nights in a row, and 24 hours after the last dose I had a very painful migraine, similar to what Ray Peat would say is caused by serotonin or endotoxin; I am going to retry with smaller doses and see if the sedation is tolerable for continuous use. I'm sure, though, the receptors would eventually upregulate (or whatever really goes on in there) like with caffeine.

I suggest going off slowly if you've been on a long cycle! I was in class and I started getting visuals like lysergic acid.

I also found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3584851
 

jyb

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How does cyproheptadine differ from ondansetron? Haidut already mentioned Mirtazapine had some similarities, which seems fair (both cypro and mirta have similar side effects: drowsy at higher dose, can be used for insomnia, typically safe & without permanent side effects unlike SSRIs).

From personal experience, it seems like cypro doesn't affect digestion negatively like ondansetron, which seems to suppress gut serotonin too much to the point of no movement. Some applications of ondansetron are, for example, protection from radiation (mentioned by RP, I think) and improving motion sickness. Are those also achieved by cypro?

Cypro is cheaper, typically a lot better in terms of toxic added ingredients, doesn't cause constipation like ondansetron - so why would one use ondansetron over cypro?
 

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jyb said:
Cypro is cheaper, typically a lot better in terms of toxic added ingredients, doesn't cause constipation like ondansetron - so why would one use ondansetron over cypro?
Good question. I have some ondansetron and was thinking of trying a very small amount along with the cyproheptadine.
 
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jyb said:
How does cyproheptadine differ from ondansetron? Haidut already mentioned Mirtazapine had some similarities, which seems fair (both cypro and mirta have similar side effects: drowsy at higher dose, can be used for insomnia, typically safe & without permanent side effects unlike SSRIs).

From personal experience, it seems like cypro doesn't affect digestion negatively like ondansetron, which seems to suppress gut serotonin too much to the point of no movement. Some applications of ondansetron are, for example, protection from radiation (mentioned by RP, I think) and improving motion sickness. Are those also achieved by cypro?

Cypro is cheaper, typically a lot better in terms of toxic added ingredients, doesn't cause constipation like ondansetron - so why would one use ondansetron over cypro?

Cypro is a general serotonin antagonist, meaning that using conventional medical terminology, it binds to all/most types of serotonin "receptors". It has different affinity/strength on the different "receptors" but it does bind to HT-3, which is the "receptor" on which ondansetron focuses almost exclusively. It's just that based on the binding affinities I am seeing on the Wiki page below it would take higher doses of cypro to achieve what ondansetron does in the gut. But in theory with a high enough dose cypro should be able to have same/similar effects in the gut as ondansetron does. In fact, Ray has mentioned cypro multiple times in regards to fixing gut issues, but just says it should not be used for long (maybe several days).
Read more on cypro properties here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyproheptadine
 

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haidut said:
In fact, Ray has mentioned cypro multiple times in regards to fixing gut issues, but just says it should not be used for long (maybe several days).

Haidut, did you also restrict yourself to a few days max at a time? That's a bit short, considering it takes a few days to reach equilibrium (the initial drowsiness reduces over time). Also, I recall from pubmed that structural changes in the brain occurred over months.
 

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Both Cypro and Ondansetron triggered migraines for me. very low doses are fine, but i see no benefit from either.

Such_Saturation said:
I took 4mg two nights in a row, and 24 hours after the last dose I had a very painful migraine, similar to what Ray Peat would say is caused by serotonin or endotoxin; I am going to retry with smaller doses and see if the sedation is tolerable for continuous use. I'm sure, though, the receptors would eventually upregulate (or whatever really goes on in there) like with caffeine.

I suggest going off slowly if you've been on a long cycle! I was in class and I started getting visuals like lysergic acid.

I also found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3584851
 
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bradley said:
Both Cypro and Ondansetron triggered migraines for me. very low doses are fine, but i see no benefit from either.

Such_Saturation said:
I took 4mg two nights in a row, and 24 hours after the last dose I had a very painful migraine, similar to what Ray Peat would say is caused by serotonin or endotoxin; I am going to retry with smaller doses and see if the sedation is tolerable for continuous use. I'm sure, though, the receptors would eventually upregulate (or whatever really goes on in there) like with caffeine.

I suggest going off slowly if you've been on a long cycle! I was in class and I started getting visuals like lysergic acid.

I also found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3584851

I have taken it for a week now, and my ulcer has become completely quiet. There's papers on pubmed about this, it's combined with atropine though.
 
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jyb said:
haidut said:
In fact, Ray has mentioned cypro multiple times in regards to fixing gut issues, but just says it should not be used for long (maybe several days).

Haidut, did you also restrict yourself to a few days max at a time? That's a bit short, considering it takes a few days to reach equilibrium (the initial drowsiness reduces over time). Also, I recall from pubmed that structural changes in the brain occurred over months.

Actually, I've used it for extended periods of time even at the "high" doses mentioned in the studies (24mg+). Btw, if you look at some of the animal studies, the dosage used when converted to a human dose would be 60mg+ per day. I have never taken that high of a dose but at about half of that dose (32mg) I felt like I had a gut of steel - i.e. no gut issues even after eating and drinking things that would bring me to my knees in the past. It is also very sedating at doses over 16mg per day, but for people with serious gut issues that may be one good option of stabilizing things and then working with diet to fix issues long-term. Long story short - I have taken cypro for several months in a row and aside from the drowsiness I did not get any other side effects. But keep in mind that everybody may, and probably will, react differently. So, I'd start low and work my way up only if necessary and with caution.
 

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haidut said:
I felt like I had a gut of steel - i.e. no gut issues even after eating and drinking things that would bring me to my knees in the past. It is also very sedating at doses over 16mg per day, but for people with serious gut issues that may be one good option of stabilizing things and then working with diet to fix issues long-term.

How did you live for several months at 16mg? If its only slightly more sedating than at lower-high doses, then its still kind of manageable temporarily.
 

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Has anyone tried a combo of cyproheptadine and ondansetron?
 

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I've been doing the cypro daily, and ondansetron occasionally.
It seems to work ok, but I think I really need to up my thyroid and that's a confounding factor.
 

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What dose you on currently of thyroid? And what makes you think you need to go up in dose? I'm in the same boat.
 

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I tried Cypro in early November, 1g before bed for 12 days in a row. It certainly helps with sleep, and I think it did reduce serotonin. The sleepy effect was cumulative for me, the last night I slept 10 hours without waking up, got up to pee, then went back to sleep for an hour. But the daytime grogginess was also cumulative and the last day I couldn't get moving at all so I gave it up.

I tried Odansetron (low dose) one day after I stopped the Cypro but too much going on and I couldn't discern what effect it might have had.

I haven't much of a feel for serotonin levels so can't really judge either supplement for that. I tried 1/2g Cypro a few times since and sleeping through the night is easy with it, but I can't see it as a solution for insomnia. The effect is just too heavy.
 
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jyb said:
haidut said:
I felt like I had a gut of steel - i.e. no gut issues even after eating and drinking things that would bring me to my knees in the past. It is also very sedating at doses over 16mg per day, but for people with serious gut issues that may be one good option of stabilizing things and then working with diet to fix issues long-term.

How did you live for several months at 16mg? If its only slightly more sedating than at lower-high doses, then its still kind of manageable temporarily.


I always took the large dose at night, and then during the day would take 4mg-8mg as well. After a while the morning drowsiness disappears but it still puts you to sleep at night when you take the big dose.
 

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haidut said:
I always took the large dose at night, and then during the day would take 4mg-8mg as well. After a while the morning drowsiness disappears but it still puts you to sleep at night when you take the big dose.

Seems like you can manage that due to the short half-life (8hrs). That's an advantage over Mirtazapine (>20hrs according to Wiki!) where taking such a high dose would be useless as too sleepy to function during the day.
 

superhuman

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i got my en the mail and im wondering if its worth starting? since it says so many "warnings" on the label of the side effects and all that.

What has the "drug" done for you?
 

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It helps break the cycle of histamine, estrogen, serotonin, etc..... giving the body a chance to heal.
 

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I find a 1 mg dose at night prevents me from feeling drowsy the next day. I usually take it a couple time per week, specifically after eating foods high in histamine.
 

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I'd like to find out more about how it works. For example if I take 8mg and it does nothing on that day, does that mean I had more serotonin to counteract and more would have been needed?

I've experimented with it for a few weeks. Sometimes excellent for my symptoms, sometimes little effect. I've been taking it continuously and more recently have observed there the relation between dose (range 2-12mg single dose) and effect has lessened, so I may discontinue it for a bit then resume.
 

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