Cutting Out Homogenised Dairy Has Cleared All My Digestive Issues, Including Geographic Tongue

[raypeatclips]

Yes it's definitely not homogenised. Are you definitely looking at the same one? I think Graham's maybe do a few different ones (although I wouldn't know personally). But here is the one I buy (semi skimmed), and it says it's not homogenised on the bottle, too. But here is another pic with a snippet of information about it (paragraph three for the homogenised info):

Did you click the link I posted, that took you to the milk I was talking about. It seems different from the one you posted but should be the same. I'll have to look in Sainsburys myself to see if I can find it and check there.

 

[RobertJM]

Did you click the link I posted, that took you to the milk I was talking about. It seems different from the one you posted but should be the same. I'll have to look in Sainsburys myself to see if I can find it and check there.

Yeah. That's definitely not the same one. The bottles are different. That one that you've linked I've never seen in Sainsbury's stores around my area. But i guess it differs from place to place with what gets stocked. Where I live, we have two Sainsbury's. One stocks the unhomogenised semi skimmed and whole milk (grahams), and the other doesn't stock them at all. It seems to be only selected bigger stores that stock it. I guess just keep an eye out for it. I definitely recommend you try it. It's the best I've found anyway (and I have tried pretty much all of the milks now in all of the stores).

 

[theLaw]

Neither Peat nor Haidut specify types of milk outside of Organic and low-fat with no added vitamins if possible. I even asked Haidut expecting some long detailed breakdown about the superior/most easily digestible types of milk, but he said that he didn't see any major differences.

Not saying this theory is wrong, but I also don't believe that they would miss something that obvious.

Having said that, I've personally had some issues with grassfed milk that weren't there with cheaper Organic low-fat milk from my local grocer, so perhaps there's another factor at play here (allergies, metabolic function, etc).

Also, for those having issues with milk, adding a small amount (Tbsp) of cooked Potato Juice (amino acids) might help.

Cheers!

 

[Mossy]

If homoegenized milk was the"primary cause of heart disease", then can you please explain how you think nobody on this forum has struggled with heart disease? Ray Peat has averaged A GALLON of homogenized milk PER DAY for just about 40 YEARS. Where is his heart disease? Surely an individual with his knowledge, and observational capacity would notice if the enzyme Xanthine Oxidase was causing the extreme levels of inflammtion and gut distress that you claim. BTW I was not able to find any conclusive inflormation or data on such an enzyme.

On the contrary, I am thoroughly less inflamed when consuming steady milk through the day. Much less inflamed, and my gut functions perfectly and I feel ellated and joyful. Many forum memeber share this experience. I strongly suspect that the studies demonstrating the damage cause by Xanthine Oxidase simply committed the classical error of attributing causality to correlation. Out of the entire population, if people who suffer serious heart disease have increased levels of BMXO, it doesn't at all indicate that dairy causes heart disease. There are a wide number of other possible explanations, but go ahead and follow the most simplistic one if that suits you.

I would have to agree with your position (which is Peat's) -- from what I can tell, homogenized milk does not disagree with my body. But, as this post shows, some people do poorly with it. I just thought it was a relevant thread to post this article that makes these bold claims against homogenized milk. I am still open to the idea and discussion, though, that non-homogenized could be healthier for you.

 

[jitsmonkey]

I drink the cheapest non organic pastr. homog. skim milk boiled/heated/sweetened never felt better
fully recovering from being completely debilitated both physically and mentally
I've had hundreds of gallons of raw and or organic milk full fat, low fat, etc... over the years
never responded better re: temp, pulse, mood, amount tolerated than when using boiled, sweetened cheapo skim.
EMWV (EveryonesMileageWillVary)

 

[Mossy]

I drink the cheapest non organic pastr. homog. skim milk boiled/heated/sweetened never felt better
fully recovering from being completely debilitated both physically and mentally
I've had hundreds of gallons of raw and or organic milk full fat, low fat, etc... over the years
never responded better re: temp, pulse, mood, amount tolerated than when using boiled, sweetened cheapo skim.
EMWV (EveryonesMileageWillVary)

Do you feel better with skim versus any of the fat versions? I'm still testing myself, whether the fat and extra calories are satisfying my system or taxing it. I haven't concluded yet.

 

[jitsmonkey]

I prefer skim simply because it gives me other options for fat throughout the day.
Rarely if ever full fat milk. I actually got the idea from Ray.
Drinking a half to a full gallon of milk. The kCal from just the fat alone in full fat milk would
be substantial and would force me to make different choices throughout the day.
I do use 1 or 2% from time to time if the store is out when I'm shopping. I don't really notice a difference.

 

[Mossy]

I prefer skim simply because it gives me other options for fat throughout the day.
Rarely if ever full fat milk. I actually got the idea from Ray.
Drinking a half to a full gallon of milk. The kCal from just the fat alone in full fat milk would
be substantial and would force me to make different choices throughout the day.
I do use 1 or 2% from time to time if the store is out when I'm shopping. I don't really notice a difference.

Funny, that is exactly my approach as well. I know Ray is big on lots of protein from milk, but for variety I like to mix up the milk with cottage cheese, cheese, and cream for coffee. Not to mention, ice cream. So, as you say, the lower fat the milk, the more I can accommodate those. I mix in meat and coconut oil as well--as is fitting for a 50/30/20 (carbs/fat/protein) breakdown. I may play with that ratio a bit.

 

[Dave Clark]

Maybe this is basic Peat knowledge, but if Ray drinks a gallon of milk a day, doesn't milk have whey in it, and isn't whey something he says to stay away from due to the tryptophan? Also, he is egg friendly, but I have read that the average egg can have approximately 500 mg. of cysteine, which is another thing he says to stay away from, very confusing.

 

[Waynish]

It's interesting to think that the mistaken presumption of extra pre-processing as beneficial removed inconsistency from the product, but rather shifted that inconsistency to the consumer, whose flora and parasites thrive on it.

 

[DDK]

I drink the cheapest non organic pastr. homog. skim milk boiled/heated/sweetened never felt better
fully recovering from being completely debilitated both physically and mentally
I've had hundreds of gallons of raw and or organic milk full fat, low fat, etc... over the years
never responded better re: temp, pulse, mood, amount tolerated than when using boiled, sweetened cheapo skim.
EMWV (EveryonesMileageWillVary)

How are your teeth holding up? I have yet to see anyone's teeth fair well on a high skim milk + sugar diet. Have you tried consuming the "cheapo" skim milk not boiled?

 

[jitsmonkey]

Maybe this is basic Peat knowledge, but if Ray drinks a gallon of milk a day, doesn't milk have whey in it, and isn't whey something he says to stay away from due to the tryptophan? Also, he is egg friendly, but I have read that the average egg can have approximately 500 mg. of cysteine, which is another thing he says to stay away from, very confusing.

He also says "life is problematic"

 

[jitsmonkey]

How are your teeth holding up? I have yet to see anyone's teeth fair well on a high skim milk + sugar diet. Have you tried consuming the "cheapo" skim milk not boiled?

I've tried every form of milk imaginable with the exception of the infamous milk enema.
Yes I've tried it not boiled.
My dental heath is superior to what it was and has improved significantly.
100% of the people I've personally spoken with (15-20) who struggle with milk/sugar allegedly
harming their teeth are still eating much too much phosphorous and or not getting enough K. More often the former. Which is the most likely reason why their teeth deteriorate. Its likely not the milk nor the sugar. Any diet with negative calcium to phos balance as a general rule will ruin your teeth/bone structure. I would be included in that group for the 40+ years prior to doing this this way.
I don't doubt that there are people out there with a POSITIVE cal/phos balance who
for whatever reason don't do well with skim milk/sugar as a base.

But my point wasn't to promote how I prefer my milk.

My point was that everyone's mileage will vary and that regardless of the narrative...
TRY IT on yourself. Provided the answer to the question "What happens if it goes wrong?"
isn't "you're permanently maimed or dead"... TRY IT and see for yourself. No need to let
a narrative/story dictate your future. We waste so much time and energy arguing and debating narratives and stories to get to "who's right" "what's true". When in fact you can answer that question often times with much less angst and distress just by TRYING IT. I realize there are in fact contexts where maybe that's impractical or difficult but in many contexts it is not problematic at all. Less arguing/debating and more experiencing would help a lot of people feel a lot better. (but then again.... I could be completely wrong ;-)

 

[DDK]

I've tried every form of milk imaginable with the exception of the infamous milk enema.
Yes I've tried it not boiled.
My dental heath is superior to what it was and has improved significantly.
100% of the people I've personally spoken with (15-20) who struggle with milk/sugar allegedly
harming their teeth are still eating much too much phosphorous and or not getting enough K. More often the former. Which is why their teeth deteriorate. Its not the milk nor the sugar. Any diet with negative calcium to phos balance with ruin your teeth. I would be included in that group for the 40+ years prior to doing this this way.

Only reason I asked is bc when I consume whole grassfed raw milk + sugar teeth are great, when it's cheap supermarket skim milk + sugar, teeth are wretched. I guess it must be the K in the cream of the grassfed milk. Like you I have tried every type of milk, funny though, growing up all I drank was supermarket, fortified, skim milk.

What does your diet look like besides the gallon of skim milk and sugar? Do you take vitamin K? I also know of a few people who drink large amounts of vitamin D fortified cheapo skim milk and do have good teeth (they don't eat sugar however) and they ascribe this to the calcium and vitamin D, so don't know how necessary K is, it doesn't seem very essential to their great dental health.

 

[jitsmonkey]

Only reason I asked is bc when I consume whole grassfed raw milk + sugar teeth are great, when it's cheap supermarket skim milk + sugar, teeth are wretched. I guess it must be the K in the cream of the grassfed milk. Like you I have tried every type of milk, funny though, growing up all I drank was supermarket, fortified, skim milk.

What does your diet look like besides the gallon of skim milk and sugar? Do you take vitamin K? I also know of a few people who drink large amounts of vitamin D fortified cheapo skim milk and do have good teeth (they don't eat sugar however) and they ascribe this to the calcium and vitamin D, so don't know how necessary K is, it doesn't seem very essential to their great dental health.

I do supplement K (actually I supp AD&K as needed based upon season, sun exposure, stress, diet, etc)
the "normal RP" stuff..
OJ, fruit, liver, oysters, T3, some supps, other dairy products, occasional red meat, minimal pufa, coconut oil, occasional starch (I make an excellent white sourdough and I like potatoes and pasta) that's not exhaustive, but everything I eat would be familiar if you've read Ray's work.

 

[sladerunner69]

I drink the cheapest non organic pastr. homog. skim milk boiled/heated/sweetened never felt better
fully recovering from being completely debilitated both physically and mentally
I've had hundreds of gallons of raw and or organic milk full fat, low fat, etc... over the years
never responded better re: temp, pulse, mood, amount tolerated than when using boiled, sweetened cheapo skim.
EMWV (EveryonesMileageWillVary)

To be clear, you boil the milk yourself? Why do you feel it necessary to do such a thing? The milk is already heat treated of course.

And yes I feel energetic and cerebrally lifted when using skim milk as a primary food. I think it has to do with pufa depletion. If I drink milk fat I prefer organic, I actually believe it tastes better and helps me to feel better.

Only reason I asked is bc when I consume whole grassfed raw milk + sugar teeth are great, when it's cheap supermarket skim milk + sugar, teeth are wretched. I guess it must be the K in the cream of the grassfed milk. Like you I have tried every type of milk, funny though, growing up all I drank was supermarket, fortified, skim milk.

What does your diet look like besides the gallon of skim milk and sugar? Do you take vitamin K? I also know of a few people who drink large amounts of vitamin D fortified cheapo skim milk and do have good teeth (they don't eat sugar however) and they ascribe this to the calcium and vitamin D, so don't know how necessary K is, it doesn't seem very essential to their great dental health.

Do you ever supplement k2 as a standalone vitamin? It definitely helps teeth. However it makes me emotionally flat and irritable, maybe lower libido. I think it may inhibit estrogen too effectively for my case.

 

[sladerunner69]

I would have to agree with your position (which is Peat's) -- from what I can tell, homogenized milk does not disagree with my body. But, as this post shows, some people do poorly with it. I just thought it was a relevant thread to post this article that makes these bold claims against homogenized milk. I am still open to the idea and discussion, though, that non-homogenized could be healthier for you.

Right thats a perfectly fair position. I mean to criticize the study and position posted, as I simply don't see de facto results that substantiate it. Most people don't drink very much milk at all, and the trend in health culture is observable moving against milk because it is "inflammatory" and everyone has some mysterious subtle "lactose intolerance"... I mean the average person in modern US probably doesn't drink half as much milk as they did just 40 years ago. And look at the rates of heart disease, they've gone up considerably!

 

[jitsmonkey]

I stumbled upon warming the milk because I was living in Bend,Oregon
during the coldest darkest winter in 1,000,000 years
(at least that's what I was told by the grim reaper when he came and told me he'd stolen the sun)...
it was REALLY cold and drinking milk and oj was an impossibility.
In addition I was having trouble with lactose and drinking lactose free milk.

Someone suggested I could warm the milk (so it wasn't cold and I might be able to drink more.... it was so cold I wasn't drinking any) and
that warming the milk may aid in digestion. Instead of doing hours of research and debate as to whether I should or shouldn't I just tried it.
And warming the milk made it possible to drink MUCH more in the freezing cold and it actually drastically improved how warm I was throughout the day.
I can't speak for exactly how or if it improved my digestion regarding lactose but within a matter of 4-6 weeks I wasn't needing the lactose free milk anymore.
I boil it because it stays warmer in my cup/glass longer vs just "heating" it to make it warm. I don't feel it "necessary" to do this.
I found that I just preferred the warming effect that came with having the milk hot so I continued to do it. I do occasionally drink the milk cold but by
and large I just prefer and enjoy the milk hot and sweet. I left bend and moved back to AZ this summer and I expected I'd stop heating it but
I didn't and continue to enjoy it hot.

At the end of the day the most direct answer to your question is
I boil the milk because I like it that way and my pulse, temps, mood, etc like it too.

 

[Mossy]

Right thats a perfectly fair position. I mean to criticize the study and position posted, as I simply don't see de facto results that substantiate it. Most people don't drink very much milk at all, and the trend in health culture is observable moving against milk because it is "inflammatory" and everyone has some mysterious subtle "lactose intolerance"... I mean the average person in modern US probably doesn't drink half as much milk as they did just 40 years ago. And look at the rates of heart disease, they've gone up considerably!

I'd say that's accurate. I have a vegetarian friend who sent me a documentary that demonizes dairy consumption; and, as a whole, those around me don't drink nearly as much milk as we once did in the US. I'm drinking more milk than I have in decades, and so far I seem to be doing well. I have some health issues still, but I can't attribute those to dairy -- at least not that I'm aware of.

 

[Mossy]

Do you ever supplement k2 as a standalone vitamin? It definitely helps teeth. However it makes me emotionally flat and irritable, maybe lower libido. I think it may inhibit estrogen too effectively for my case.

This is the case for me, as well. It took me a while to peg it down, but I know when I take K, I'll be irritable by the afternoon.