Cut The Circle Of Gut Issues, Where To Enter? I Am Confused

[Xisca]

Now that I have gathered a lot of puzzle pieces thanks to you all here, I would like to share an image with all those pieces, to target action.

I need to make CONNECTIONS. One piece of informations leads to another and another... Don't you feel like a hunting dog tracking? And with the nose on the ground, when you head up, feel disoriented...

So, here I want to try to put things together, and need HELP for this.
I start by writing about the pieces of puzzle, but I will also put some questions among them!
What ever answer you have...
what ever similarity you can share, or difference, in your experience...
are welcome thanksfully.

I can only take my own story for a start, but surely I am not the only one in the circle, just may be we did not enter it at the same place, and we might enter the solution in different places.

- Labs confirm upper gut bacterial over-growth.
- Then I have lactate in urine, and of course burning muscles and I have aerobic glycolisis.
Since childhood.
- Then I have low liver and pancreas,
diagnosed in childhood too.
- Tendency to have acid reflux,
(tempered with apple vinegar when it happens, and prevented by betaine HCl and digestive enzymes)
I do not bold the word acid, as I know it comes from lacking acid in the stomach.
- bacterial overgrowth in the throat and sinus and gums, chronic since chilhood too.

I guess who has one of these symtoms actually have the complete pannel !! Or maybe 1 symtom instead of another...

Symtoms never show alone, though they do not appear all together.
So, focus on digestive issues, in the digestive forum...

I did not get much answer in my lab interpretation thread, I hope you can help me here,
... and I hope this topic can be of general interest for more than me.
Thanks.

 

[Xisca]

This is the order for me, skip it if you want....
From my early early history, I have problems from chemicals before birth. It seemed I started with bad digestion and having antibiotics, then otitis. Perceiving the consequences and recurence of illness, I was lucky enough that my parents shifted to homeopathy.
Soon diagnosed with a slow metabolism, then pancreas problem, then spasmotic gall-bladder. I stayed with chronic ORL issues though not acute, thanks to natural remedies.

The order might be different for you, but surely many have the same overall symtoms appearing one after another, according to the similitudes I have seen among forum members.

Then of course all sort of energy issues, but with the compensations of the intelligent body, I am almost sure that you had any digestive and ORL issues BEFORE having energy problem!

Yes or no?

And then comes the paradoxe, and how to get out...
Gut bacterias and candida live better on sugar, ...as us.
So, energy or bacteria starving?
This is the usual choice, and I look for the 23rd way....

I want to burn sugar, and share as little as possible with critters.
Unless they pay some rent to financiate the B&B!

 

[Xisca]

Great, grated carrot, or not grated...
Off PUFA, I just had almonds anyway.
(but a far away past with sunflower margarine)
I was already off gluten and even nearly off starch.
I was already having gelatine through bone broth.
Easy until then.

But I was high fat low sugar. I do not blame it, I got rid of candida, and almost of gut issues, as long as I stayed low in carbs.
Add some sugar, wwell, not so great on the belly. Any sugar or stach, or almost, have a greater effect then progesterone! 5 months old pregnant in 5 mns.

Some forum members here gain weight, I do not, and have never in my life.
What is the difference I have with people gaining weight though having some similar issues? Or, what issues are different? I have better thyroid? You might say that the 1st thing to considere... But what causes low thyroid?
- If we treat the cause, can we boost thyroid indirectly?
I never had low levels for example, and I do not want to interfere in my own production. If more is needed, I prefer to find a way to trigger my body to be more than happy in doing so!
Do I handle stress better? I would say differently, as I have a big amount of pre-natal trauma, plus some as usual afterward... I do not mean the event, but the consequences, the damage on physiology and behaviour and relationship handling.

I have no anxiety etc, but more somatic issues. Mainly muscle pain and fatigue.
And even if we connect at distance, you surely feel I express quite better intelectually than emotionnaly...
I have noticed for long I have similarities with autism, I am not very fluid and none of a fiesta loca.
But my inner strength always come back with energy and I do have some inner happyness. It does not help me to obtain help, because most people think I do not need it!!!!!!!!!!!
And it bothers me a lot when my physical energy does not want to follow my will!
How long will my adrenaline and cortisol support me or will it go one day with bath water?
Better solve issues before!

 

[Xisca]

Then I discovered that high sugar cannot go with high fat, chose one or another.
I want sugar, but bugs agree too much!

So in fact, I would really like to go back to more fat, butter, coconut, bone marrow... as it is healing for the gut and make bugs unhappy.
Also, fat does not create lactic acid... Glycolisis is about glucose burning.

So, bacterial over-growth should be the 1st target?

More to come, as I have gathered other pieces of puzzle around,
but please please please,
forgive my intelectual and not so warm outside appearance
and do not let me in an introvert monologue!
Thanks, gracias, merci!

 

[aliciahere]

Have you looked into hiatal hernia? Also, digestive enzymes?

 

[Broken man]

I write what helped me alot
- B1- for stomach acid, against ammonia and lactate, better sugar control, dosage 300- 1500, ray recommends 300 every 4 hours.
- B2- against endotoxin, sugar control and protein synthesis 10 mg ( I am taking 20- 50 because nose bleeding)
- B3- against FFAand serotonin , sugar control, liver health 500 3x day, its better to start with lower dosage, ray recommends 50-100 mg few times per day.
-B6- sugar control, dopamine, Ray recommends 5-10 mg, I am taking 20 mg. Signs that its working- a lot of motivation to do anything. Overdose will cause nightmares and disturbed sleep.
I am taking all of them to avoid deficiencies with orange juice for potassium.

I don't know if it would deplete them but it may increase the need for them. More B1 increases need for potassium, and I think B2, and B3.

B2 is very very important. Not only is it involved in the electron transport chain functioning, but an organism cannot properly utilize oxygen if B2 status is not right. The activated form FAD is actually a stronger oxidizing agent than NAD and as such its levels are usually very low in many chronic conditions linked to reductive stress including diabetes, CVD, and cancer.
Nitric Oxide, Nitrates, Nitrites, and Fluoride, KMUD, 2015
"...RP: I always recommend eggs and liver as the easiest way to get both trace minerals and vitamins. But you can look at food charts and find things that are not necessarily as good. But you can put together a diet with a high content of certain vitamins. Vit B2 is one that I've seen lot of serious deficiencies; people with red noses, rosacea, nose bleeds, some mood problems for memory and such. You can’t use oxygen if you’re deficient in Vit B2. But besides the fact that the synthetics are so allergenic for a lot of people, if you take up a very large amount (some of the pills have 50 or 100mg in each tablet), it can reach the level in your skin and your eyes where it sensitizes you to the sunlight. Even blue light will react with riboflavin in your eyes and skin, causing free radical change.
HD: B vitamins are water soluble vitamins that cannot be stored. What kind of dosage would you recommend for Vit B2 ?
RP: 5 or 10mg per day."

-K2 MK4- orally 10-15 mg, for atp, atp is good for gut, for 1 week
- Pregnenolone- for lower cortisol and serotonin, good for muscles
- DHEA- same as preg, more DHT , I am using both for muscle recovery and against cortisol
- Caffeine- against serotonin, cortisol, for androgens, liver health
-cyproheptadine- 0,5 - 1 mg 2x per day, great against serotonin
- diamant- 6 drops, against serotonin
- Androsterone- 1 mg, great for kidney and liver, for hormones and against cortisol

I had problems with my gut because I am coeliak. Tried carrot salad and and activated charcoal but its not for me. Big jump was when I started experiment with higher dosage of thiamine. I found later that all b vits ( B1, B2, B3, B6, biotin) are important for sugar control, atp (steroid synthesis) , CO2 , overall fatigue. If you are eating liver and eggs, you will have enough of B5, folate and and B12 but I have b complex in my table just for sure. I am taking all what is above. I start day with cup of OJ and 4 eggs with bread, magnesium chloride, b vits, calcium. I found that b vits are useless without magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium and I dont feel much from steroids when I am not taking b vits like I have problems with breathing or joint pain. Snack is cottage chesse with sugar ( 50-60), caffeine 200 mg, OJ. Lunch- meat with gelatin and rice or potatoes. Next snack is protein (30 g) shake ( casein) with sugar (60g) and Dinner is something like lunch. So I am eating both, sugar and starches. I think that sugar and fruit are better choices but I prefer this way. For weight loss, cypro and diamant are best choice from my perspective. I dont have enough time so its not complete. If you have some questions, write me. From start I think, try 300 mg thiamine hcl, 10 mg b2, 100 mg b3 niacinamide, b6 5 mg with OJ to thirst and you will see what will happen. Make sure you have enough sodium, magnesium and calcium. If it will do nothing, you need more calories or nutrients. Smaller dosages more times, you must experiment. Or you can try 0,5 mg of cypro but its very very powerful stuff .

 

[HLP]

Try taking small amounts of horseradish several times per day. The hotter the better.

 

[Xisca]

Have you looked into hiatal hernia? Also, digestive enzymes?

Hi Alicia thanks for the 1st answer!
I do not have such pain suggesting hernia, also my body therapist would have notice, I think. We work on organs as well.
Very useful BTW.

I do take digestive enzymes, + betaine HCl, but wanted to talk about it, because I do not know what, in the long term...
If I have lactate, I have acid, thus not enough alkaline for making pancreas bicarbonate and bile.

My interrogation after reading this:
http://www.smgebooks.com/chronic-pancreatitis/chapters/CP-15-01.pdf
is that maybe maybe, low stomach acid is a protective reaction to not send too much acid in the duodenum.
Of course, this would be the reverse of what I thought: that acidity is needed to stimulate pancreas and liver into producing their alkaline juices. But if pancreas and liver suffer, then they might not even be able to do the job properly, even with the right amount of acid stimulation from the stomach.

I do not have reflux at the moment, but indeed when I took more sups and more HCl, I had more acid poop.
And yellow from vitamin B!

 

[Xisca]

Try taking small amounts of horseradish several times per day. The hotter the better.

Yeeeeess, for sinus, I plan to take some and keep it in the mouth, but not burn my nose!
The only one I saw has some gum, guar or other I do not remember, so I 1st look for another one.

At the moment I do the 1st fire training, with nasturtium and moringa!

 

[Xisca]

I had problems with my gut because I am coeliak.

Answer to the big answer comes last but not least...
I am not celiac, so it took time to get the right advise, and I am off gluten for years now.
But usually it comes with more problem than just gluten... it is an upper gut problem, so after a few years gluten-free, it went back + candida, that I got rid of with low-carb diet.

I am "only" intolerant to gluten, which every body should check out!
Either remove and see, and if not clear in one week, some say to go on 3 months, but the other solution is to eat a looooot of whole grain bred, to have a huge amount of gluten, and see what happened.
I lived this without wanting, when I was not cooking, and it was terrible, but telling the symptoms to doctor gave him the idea that it could be gluten!

Do you eat gluten free bread?
I do not, as they have gum and other strange stuff... Here we have schär brand.

I drink coffe and I have progest-e

I took vitB, and for me the most relevant was B12. The others I took too, but I cannot stand anymore even the strong smell of the closed bottle! I wait for my next vitB, and K, A and E, from @haidut... Also Methilene blue and mitoLipin MitoLipin - Dietary Supplement For Cardiolipin And Mitochondria Support

 

[Xisca]

I still do not have all ready for the strategy, but it's coming!
I also wait for atrantil...

I want mainly to make links with the different symtoms, because I am not alone to have tried many things and still not the best solution.
Especially when the best past solution has been ...low carb.
After my labs, of course the doctor asks me to go sugar-free and dairy-free!
High carb and defeat SIBO, let's see if I prove the doctor that it is posible. And she is into integrative medicine.

And who knows what else can be of use, may be a little detail that will hold the puzzle still missing, and I do not know which member has it!

Thanks for your posts!

 

[theLaw]

+ Clean the Liver

Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension

High Protein Diet Prevents & Reverses Fatty Liver Disease (steatosis)

+ Fix Digestive Issues

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

Ray Peat Potato Protein Soup (RPPPS)

Cyproheptadine - A Wonder Drug?

+ Reduce PUFA in Tissues down to almost nothing

PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

Haidut's Summary Of PUFA

VoS uncoupling thread

Cheers!

 

[Xisca]

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

Bingo for this one, according to my labs and doctor want me to take amino acid in form of a shake.
Yuk, I want to eat more animal products!
I use betaine HCl and enzyme, and experiment with eating meat with papaya. Espacially gelatine, as I do not digest it as well as meat.
Some noticed this as well?

 

[Xisca]

ho my... I did not want to read this!

many people on the forum have a functional protein deficiency due to poor ability to digest protein from food.

Explaining why I do not gain muscle?

And another tip on the same page...

As you know, I'm trying Gbolduev's plankton for a month or so for SIBO. If I don't see benefits on it for sibo and stop it, I know now how to supplement protein, thanks to this post.

 

[Xisca]

Here is the prescription that goes with my lab results, I guess you will scream for a few things as well....
Let's see what can be worth a try...
This BCAA, I still have to look for what it is.

Multiprobiotics 20.000 ufc
batido proteico bajo en azucar rico en aminoacidos ramificados (BCAA) 20g prots
mineral 650 pure encapsulation
complejo B con metafolin y factor intrínseco
omegor perlas (=DHA 2 gr)
vit C (esther C)
Ácido R lipoico 100mg
Orotato de litio 5mg
GABA
Melatonina 100 mg
Curcumina meriva
Intestamine Douglas
Neurotransmitter balance douglas
Ubiquinol
vit A
vit E 400
K2-D3 douglas
Indol 3 carbinol
SR9009
exprimido de aloe arborens ecológica
extracto de hoja de olivo (si helicobacter)

dieta sin gluten, lactosa, caseina ni azucar (no dairy no sugar!)

 

[Xisca]

Increase in lactic acid is a sign of thiamine deficiency.

@Ella My labs were ok for B vitamines, and I have lactic acid.
I grow most of my food, grains are the only suppressed group of food, and I would like to heal the guts and put back more food in!

I got cheese that I put lactobacillus in, just grow a probiotic in, and I take some that is yummy, and yesterday I took it after dinner... but last night I was woken up by bile in my throat, and irritated bronchis this morning, running nose...

I have lactate in urine, and all my life I had muscle burning. My father has the same tendency, with tendinitis that we both have too...
I do not know how to start!

 

[Xisca]

@Ella I think this list of supps that this doctor send me is crazingly loooong!
And no dairy no sugar? Then I am almost no starch, no meat if I do not digest proteins well, and live on proteic amino shakes?
Crazy.
I do eat meat and I do not notice problem. I do eat a super good goat cheese, and no problem.
My guts are almost fine with the balance I have now, but still, I have to be careful.
The last 2 times I flushed food was always with too much at a time, once rice (organic and white), once cooked apples (from my garden).
And even if I remove the big fiber, I am not so good with my good home grown greens.
I can also flush out quick a veggie juice, the last was with cucumber and beetroot, and this red root is perfect to know how long is your transit time!

My guess is lack of bicarbonate, too acid bile and too acid pancreatic juices.
Maybe I like so much butter so that it can use up the bile...

 

[Ella]

that I put lactobacillus in,

Do you realise that lactobacillus is a lactic acid producing organism? Perhaps the test you did is not specific enough for thiamine. I think you should ditch the yoghurt - nothing fermented for you my luv not matter how much you like it. Lactic acid is toxic to cells. I would try supplementing some thiamine-hcl and see how you feel with it.

Perhaps you have overgrowth of lactobacillus and may be causing gut issues along with metabolic issues ??? I see this on stool analyis all the time. Very high titres of lactic acid producing organisms. I think your results were high L-lactic acid. Many organisms can produce L-forms.

Also gut bacteria can deplete thiamin and other b-vitamins - so you should not be increasing their numbers as your cells will be competing with these organisms. Search googlefor B1 deficiency and gut microbiota so you understand the implications.

 

[Xisca]

Do you realise that lactobacillus is a lactic acid producing organism?

Yes I do, that is why I told you so. Because what happenned last night is proof to me. I still have a acid feeling in my throat.
My normal cheese is NOT fermented, it is very freshly done. Just raw goat milk and rennet, lots of rennet, the local cheese here is done in 2 hours.

But then, this doctor wants me to take a probiotic that is full of lactobacillus, and I have been looking for one with only bifido etc, but no lacto, and I have not found any!

 

[Xisca]

nothing fermented for you my luv not matter how much you like it.

No I don't like acid taste at all. I have tried chucrut but I never finish it, and I do not buy yogurt at all.
The only acid I take is some lemon juice with baking soda, and vinegar with olive oil to soak any salad. Also vinegar is my best way to get rid of a stomach burn, when I had some before I took betain HCl.
Last night I took baking soda because I felt it was different, no burn in the oesophage but in my throat and nose, bile type. Then I burped and felt ok and could sleep.