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Cure Tooth Decay From Ramiel Nagel

Discussion in 'Oral Health' started by Resurgo74, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Resurgo74

    Resurgo74 Member

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    Hey,


    I am peating since about 3 months, coming from a more Weston Price oriented diet.
    I felt good and healthy before but now I feel like I`m in my early 20`s again,
    beeing 44 years old. No kidding.
    So thanks a lot to Ray Peat and the contributors of this forum.


    Besides feeling healthy I want to keep my teath healthy.
    So I read Ramiel Nagel`s book "Cure Tooth Decay".


    According to Ramiel tooth decay is based on:
    1. Lack of Vitamins A, D, E, K
    2. Blood sugar fluctuations which draw calcium from bones and teeths


    1. Lack of fat-soluable Vitamins
    Daily nutritional requirements according to Ramiel Nagel:
    - Calcium from animal sources 1.5g;
    only calcium from unpasteurized dairy can be metabolized in bones and teeth
    - Phosphor from animal sources 2g
    - Vitamin A 4.000 - 20.000 IU
    - Vitamin D 1.000 - 4.000 IU
    - Calories from fat 30% -70%
    - 6-18 ounces high-quality protein: BW / 15 = protein requirement in oz.
    - With every meal: 1 teaspoon of healtyh fat: Butter, ghee, coconut oil
    - Foods to increase mineral intake like broth, dairy products, vegetables
    - Plenty cooked vegetables: beet greens, kale, chard, zucchini, broccoli, celery
    - some fermented with every meal

    2. blood sugar fluctuations
    Ramiel argues that caviatis is caused by blood sugar fluctuations
    which leads to a prolonged blood calcium-phosphor miss-relation
    which draws calcium from bones and teeth.

    White sugar is supposed to lead to 5 hours of blood sugar fluctuations,
    fruit sugar, even though low-glycemic, is supposed to lead to 5 hours of blood sugar fluctuations, honey is supposed to lead to 3 hours of blood sugar fluctuations.
    In addition to that white sugar is said to deplete the body of chromium, zinc, magnesium and manganese.

    ( White sugar is supposed to bring posterior pituitary gland out of balance, so that it can`t regulate blood sugar -> phosphor pulled from bones -> tooth decay
    Natural sweeteners lead to an overactive anterior pituitary gland -> lack of growth hormone -> gum disease; Thyroid is regulated by anterior pituitary gland -> to repair thyroid, repair anterior pituitary gland …. )


    So he suggests the following carb sources:
    • Swet potatoes
    • Yams
    • If one wants to go with grains:
      • properly prepared sourdough bread
      • high-quality Jasmin or Basmati Rice
      • properly prepared brown Rice:
        • 50% of the bran removed
        • soaked with a phytase-rich starter
        • partially milled, soured
    My take on this:
    • one is better off without vegetables through their anit-nutritions
      ( I know that vegetables can be prepared properly,
      but I think they are just not necessary )
    • Calcium from pasteurized high-quality grass-fed dairy is quite fine
    • have more dietary phosphor than dietary calcium
    • don`t eat fermented foods
    • have your carbs from sucrose, fructose
      ( especially orange juice / oranges, honey, carrots )
      • balances carbs with protein and a little healthy fat
    • besides that, I like his recommandations but
      • I suppose it is sufficient to have about 5 oz. of mussels per week
        and about 5 oz. of liverwurst per week to fullfill Vitamin A requirements
        and to get enough micronutrients like zinc.
        To get enough Vitamin K,D I supplement with Carlsons Liquid D / K
        Vitamin E is barely needed if one lacks of dietary PUFA`
    where Ramiel suggests to daily have foods from 2 or 3 of the following
    sources:
    • grass-fed dairy; especially summer butter
    • organs from land animals: liver, kidney, brain, glands
    • organs and head meat from fish and shellfish
    What do you think?


    Frank
     
  2. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    I like your Peat-inspired amendments, also I note he recommends more phosphorus than calcium?
     
  3. OP
    Resurgo74

    Resurgo74 Member

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    Yes, he indeed suggest 2g of phosphor but only 1.5g calcium.
    His suggestions are based on Weston Prices observations on the native people in Switzerland / Lötschentel and Scotland / the outer Hebrides.
    In comparison to Ray Peat he is just a "normal" guy who researched the topic quite well and put one and one together where Ray is a real scientist....
     
  4. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Did you try the mouthwash with xylitol?
     
  5. OP
    Resurgo74

    Resurgo74 Member

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    I mouthwash with Natron after having orange juices to mitigate the acidic effect on my teeth.
    What ist your experience with mouthwashing with xylitol?
     
  6. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    From what I understand enamel degredation is due to a combination of factors but mainly sugars (the most potent of which is sucrose) turning off of the the hypothalamus and pituitary axis leading to a lack of release of parotid releasing factor effecting the action of parotid gland hormone on circulating dentinal fluid in the columns of proteins and calcium among other minerals that make up the tooth. This in combination with the bacterial acidic endproducts and issues with saliva pH based on nutritional factors leads to the degredation of teeth.

    Acute secretion of immunoreactive parotid hormone in response to different diets in the pig - ScienceDirect

    The thing is I think that sucrose shutting down the parotid factor is actually a sign of a good thing. It means that sucrose is shutting off the pituitary gland. Which is akin to Peats discussion on W.D. Denkla and hypophysectomized rats (removal of pituitary). Sucrose also shuts down cortisol production by turning of the pituitary. Its essentially a sign in my mind that the body has resources available and doesnt need to rely on “stress hormones” to function. The real issue I think is when the thyroid isnt activated so the body is in a state of metabolic limbo but thats an entire other discussion.

    Sugar (Sucrose) Restrains the Stress Response – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
     
  7. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Good, I have done a number of things (increase dark leafy greens and its broth, remove most dairy, wheat etc..) but the xylitol helped with sensitive right away. Right now (about two months of use?) my enamel has filled in a bit in my teeth and they feel like they are doing fine. Gums still bleed easily.
     
  8. HealthisWealth

    HealthisWealth Member

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    unprepared brown rice is really hard to digest. I was told to germinate it by soaking..
     
  9. OP
    Resurgo74

    Resurgo74 Member

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    Great input!
    So sugars in general, but especially Sucrose protect the body from stress hormones and other negative effects.
    Ramiel Nigel is insofar wrong, that besides a lack of the fat-soluable Vitamins it is not the blood sugar fluctuations through a out of balance posterior pituary gland ( if the pituary gland is deactivated by Sucrose and other sugars, there must be other internal blood sugar regulatory pathways besides balancing dietary sugar with proteins and fats ) but a a hypothyroid state. This would mean that sugars, especially Sucrose, would have a benefitial effect on tooth health through assisting the thyroid system.
    Do I understand that correctly?
     
  10. OP
    Resurgo74

    Resurgo74 Member

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    As far as I understand soaking is by far not enough to deplete brown rice from its anti-nutrients.
    One has to break the hul by grinding, removing part of the bran and germ and then soak with a starter.
    Since brown rice has high levels of phytic acid but nearly no phytase to break down phytic acid one needs to add a starter like whey, ACV, lemon juice or a a small ammount of grinded hygh-phytase grains like rye or high-phytase pseudo-grains like buchwheat.
     
  11. OP
    Resurgo74

    Resurgo74 Member

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    How often do you mouthwash with Xylitol? Can you recommend a brand?
    Why did you remove most dairy, because of lactic acid?
    Where do you get your calcium from, egg shells?
     
  12. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    I do dark leafy greens, maybe orange juice and do not worry about it otherwise. As for xylitol I found a decent local one in Europe, but also bought the source natural one, I did not try it yet . I do the mouthwash mostly at night after dinner, sometimes twice, sometimes not. If you tolerate it methylene blue as a mouthwash may be nice too, haidut talked about it in one of the danny roddy podcast (it's anti-fungal etc..).
    I stopped dairy (at least cow dairy, recently had 200 grams of feta) and wheat based on Travis posts' on them, which you can find by using the search function ("opiate" ,"dairy" , "cow" "wheat"; posted by "Travis"). I always felt like cow dairy products, even if I enjoy their taste, made me feel less optimal (brain fog, sinus issues, post nasal drip..).
     
  13. HealthisWealth

    HealthisWealth Member

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    I'll try to check "polished brown rice"

    and does it taste good a soured rice?
     
  14. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    I think Ramiel Nigel is saying something along the same lines as me but just from a negaive perspective on sugar. The stimulus of sucrose to the body influences the pituitary thus turning off its releasing factors that effect glands. In the absence of adequate thyroid function the body relies on the pituatary function (this is a bit simplified keep in mind) to maintain endocrine function. So without thyroid sucrose will most likely degrade the teeth, In conjunction with poor nutrition and bacterial metabolic products. Its possible that it may also lead to tooth degredation even with thyroid, my hypothesis is that it wont but you never know. The sugar is degrading teeth indirectly by turning off the signal for the teeth to circulate dentinal fluid and by possibly leading to fermentation by bacteria. In a high thyroid state there most likely wont be bacterial endproducts in significant quantities (also my hypothesis) so the required dentinsl fluid flow may not be as high, also the sugar requirement may not be as high if the bodies cells are respiring properly. I doubt thyroid function could be optimal without somewhat proper nutrition so that aspect goes without saying, atleast in my mind. The goal would be to:
    1) turn off the pituitary
    2) reduce or eliminate as much as possible the bacterial load
    3) supply proper nutrients with lack of toxins and inhibiting substances
    = hopefully thyroid turns back on....
    (Its easy in writing but definetly not in practice. Once you lose it, in my experience it seems hard to get back. I think bacteria/ endotoxin/ intestine/ stored toxins make it a arduous process with different aspects effecting different people.)
     
  15. kreeese

    kreeese Member

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    GREAT STUFF...I have noticed a massive improvement since adding about 3 tablespoons of sugar to my diet daily and teeth are whiter clearer stronger..I actually brush my teeth with white sugar...great results so far...But I have dropped junk foods fried foods all kinds of candy bars all HFCS etc. It really is holistic. And counter intuitive...Love Peat!! Thanks for posting this!
     
  16. Peaterpeater

    Peaterpeater Member

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    The author of the book you are referring to, Ramiel Nigel, has recently passed away at the age of 38 from cancer...a brain stem tumor, I believe. He promoted Cod Liver Oil and took it himself. My condolences to his family; may God rest his soul.
     
  17. JackHanma

    JackHanma Member

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    lol what
     
  18. kreeese

    kreeese Member

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    thats right...my closely guarded secret...I use some coc. oil a touch of baking soda and white cane sugar....AMAZING RESULTS... teeth sparkly stains vanished...do not use commercial toothpaste...stuff will kill you!! ha
     
  19. baccheion

    baccheion Member

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    To seal/arrest cavities, simply add vitamins A, D, and K (40 IU palmitate : 10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ MK-4). I'd say at least 1,500 mcg MK-4 is preferrable.

    Adding minerals like magnesium, zinc, manganese, boron, and silica aids bone/teeth healing/health. Chromium manages blood sugar and a phytase supplement breaks down phytic acid. Vitamin C helps with collagen formation and gum health. Essentially, take a good multivitamin (like AOR Ortho-Core or Thorne 2/day), then add what's missing (more A, D, K, and phytase).

    In my case, I purchased retinyl palmitate powder, AOR Advanced B-Complex, Source Naturals Metabolic C, vitamin D3 powder, Unique E, Relentless Improvement Vitamin K2 MK-4 + MK-7, Life-flo Magnesium Oil (spray), Life Extension Only Trace Minerals, Now Selenium 200 mcg, and potassium iodide powder (I'm following the Iodine Protocol). I also like forskolin (amplifies effect of vitamin D), alpha-GPC (blocks somatostatin and many other things), and pregnenolone/DHEA.

    In hindsight, one of the aforementioned multivitamins (+ what's missing) would've been easier, especially AOR Ortho-Core as it contains relevant extras.
     
  20. sarahevebee

    sarahevebee Member

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    Baccheion,
    Did you begin supplementing because of cavities? Or was it always part of your health protocol? Have you arrested/reversed a cavity before?
     
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