Cultural Marxism, Reds Against (W) Freedom

[aguineapig]

You're basically saying "but those weren't real markets. Real markets have never been tried!"

It's just Socratic questioning. I am just posing hypothetical questions to a marxist out of curiosity.

 

[Peater]

A market is nothing but a price discovery mechanism, when it is allowed to work properly.

Communism is inherently centrally-planned with no price discovery. In Russia they had whole offices for deciding the prices of things from toothbrushes to cars.

 

[Peater]

while believing in elitist thoughts

Like having food. And my own property. Yeah, much serotonin.

 

[MatheusPN]

My emphasis was in the other direction -- can you have markets without capitalism? And do "markets" themselves constitute "capitalism"? If you are in favor of a barter economy as a theoretical, then do you also believe in individual ownership of goods produced by, say, a small holding? The only other option is nope, you are free to barter with other peoples things, for things from someone who is himself bartering with other peoples things. If you would not call that prerogative over ones "own" goods of material production, how else would you describe it besides "property" or "ownership"? Possession/stewardship of material?

I like anarchy, so I like some mutualism, some gifts and some barter. But I prefer and love Kropotkin.
Yes, you can have markets without capitalism, you know Adam Smith? He practically showed how capitalism nonexistent at the time, would become increasingly authoritarian/ monopolistic. He is much more socialist than ppl think. As Aristotle was.

@aguineapig You said I was a Marxist, I'm not. What you are? Besides a Guinea Pig?One which should have been in ashes now!

 

[MatheusPN]

Communism is inherently centrally-planned with no price discovery. In Russia they had whole offices for deciding the prices of things from toothbrushes to cars.

You're talking about, Stalinism. Stalin
Or the Zapatistas have a market? Or the Zapatistas as communists have a market? Or Zapatistas now have a State? Or now the billionarie communists have a State?
These actual communists are the opposite of what you're talking about.
Take a look at our world, our reality. You're indoctrinated.

Like having food. And my own property. Yeah, much serotonin.

Negative, take a look at the hero of Libertarian Right-wingers, the capitalist:
"The natural outcome of the voluntary transactions between various private property owners is decidedly non-egalitarian, hierarchical, and elitist...” -Rothbard
@tankasnowgod likes him, right?

 

[Peater]

Take a look at our world, our reality. You're indoctrinated.

I suggest it is you who have swallowed the idea, put out by the elites, that capitalism (Which we do not have, I am not going over that again. It is corporate fascism) is bad and we just need the plebs to sacrifice even more rights, freedoms, and lives so we can all live in commie utopia.

 

[MatheusPN]

I suggest it is you who have swallowed the idea, put out by the elites, that capitalism (Which we do not have, I am not going over that again. It is corporate fascism) is bad and we just need the plebs to sacrifice even more rights, freedoms, and lives so we can all live in commie utopia.

State capitalism - Wikipedia
Can you point to me a right-wing ideology/ philosopher who isn't elitist and is a capitalist?
Or you invented a non-elitist capitalist ideology? Or you believe in egalitarianism?

To everyone thanks.
Hijacking together.
We definitely should make a thread about Marxism or review any Communist philosopher.

 

[Peater]

State capitalism - Wikipedia
Can you point to me a right-wing ideology/ philosopher who isn't elitist and is a capitalist?

No mate, I can't. I work for a living, on building sites. I don't have time to sit around jerking off to philosophy and ideology.

I earn my own capital, and quite like it that way. Why haven't you left the States and joined the Zapitattitototty already, it sounds great.

 

[MatheusPN]

No mate, I can't. I work for a living, on building sites. I don't have time to sit around jerking off to philosophy and ideology.

I earn my own capital, and quite like it that way. Why haven't you left the States and joined the Zapitattitototty already, it sounds great.

Finally you admits your incongruence and incoherence. Apparently you wont perceive it.
I earn my capital, everyone considers me a bourgeoisie and I have a family. Im not powerful enough to move my family while sustaining family members which are dependents/ sick.

 

[Peater]

Finally you admits your incongruence and incoherence. Apparently you wont admit it.
I earn my capital, everyone considers me a bourgeoisie and I have a family. Im not powerful enough to move my family and sustain family members which are dependents/ sick.

Ah OK, a champagne socialist. Now it makes sense. You love telling us plebs how best we should live our lives.

 

[MatheusPN]

Ah OK, a champagne socialist. Now it makes sense.

Nop, I don't consider myself one.
Ppl even can consider someone who I know, helps family members for free, gives free housing to at least 6 (not sons), in the past it was 14. You seem to consider this guy (It's not me) a champagne socialist, nice to know your incoherence even further.
I know other one, this guy practically created a village, and gives it practically for free.
Kropotkin, had everything to have a dream life, but he sided with the proletariat and fought.

@Peater Cooperation leads to a great road. Its a very know phrase between us, "The honest, goes a long way". Selfish ppl gets ****88 up, everytime it becomes true, at least in the area I work.
You should know anarcho syndicalism.

 

[Peater]

Nop, I don't consider myself one.
Ppl even can consider someone who, helps family members for free, gives free housing to at least 6 (not sons), in the past it was 14. You seem to consider this guy (It's not me) a champagne socialist, nice to know your incoherence even further.

Sounds like he has quite a lot of capital, that he chooses to use in a way he sees fit. Imagine that.

 

[Peater]

Cooperation leads to a great road. Its a very know phrase between us, "The honest, goes a long way". Selfish ppl gets ****88 up, everytime it becomes true, at least in the area I work.

I didn't see this edit. I have no argument with any of that.

 

[Peater]

The Federal Reserve can only create Central Bank Reserves that are limited to interbank circulation. They are treated like digital cash, but non banks ( us ) dont use them. The Federal Reserve acts on behalf of private Banks when they need Reserves for settling payments, but the money we use is created by Real Estate speculation ( mostly ) although tied to the Reserve circuit. What you see in your bank account statement was not made by the FED but Wells Fargo, Chase etc. The FED is just there to accomodate private Bank dealings, or when the Government requests spending.

Split-Circuit Reserve Banking — sovereign money

The Federal Reserve Act was signed into law by Woody Wilson two days before Christmas in 1913, it was said to provide scientific management of the economy.

Scientific management of the economy...sounds very "Top Down Centrally Planned". Not true capitalism in my eyes, which is based on free markets as a price discovery mechanism. Beautiful in it's elegance and simplicity, when not hijacked for nefarious purposes.

Of course, once that was done, the money printing and wealth redistribution etc began.

 

[Peater]

This is the problem. NOT capitalism. It is the same story in my own country, and every country with a 'FIAT' currency.

 

[aguineapig]

I like anarchy, so I like some mutualism, some gifts and some barter. But I prefer and love Kropotkin.
Yes, you can have markets without capitalism, you know Adam Smith? He practically showed how capitalism nonexistent at the time, would become increasingly authoritarian/ monopolistic. He is much more socialist than ppl think. As Aristotle was.

@aguineapig You said I was a Marxist, I'm not. What you are? Besides a Guinea Pig?One which should have been in ashes now!

What about the questions on property? I am interested in some more nuance on that point. When does the necessary possessionism for barter etc cross the line into "capital" and thus oppression et cetera? is it simply discretionary and subjective?

I would say anarcho-agrarian very vaguely, because I am uncertain as to what best advances that. Distributism is interesting. To some degree anti-industrial, and with an emphasis on appropriate technology.

I only ask about reading "The Doctrine of Fascism" because I think if one supports perceivedy morally just genocides that one should read the works of those he wishes to eradicate, so as to be slightly more able to identify them. 99% of people who use the term "fascist/fascism" have an idiosyncratic self definition of the term. Terminology and nomenclature seems to be always vague and idiosyncratically understood, whether from you or the people on this forum who are diametrically opposed to your positions.

 

[Ledo]

Some right-wingers talk about and are against the forged and incongruent, "Cultural Marxism" classification. Funnily it's the same forged argument made by Nazis. Coincidentally the right who is into it is practically for the same reason as Nazis.

The majority of "Cultural Marxists", hate/ opposes most things associated with "Cultural Marxism", Marxists and alike also strongly oppose it.
It's extremely illogical how they can put liberal ideologies and Marxist ideologies in the same basket. This demonstrates how they misrepresent things like the Frankfurt School so badly.

In a world controlled by Capitalists, controlled by right-wingers and the media controlled by the likes of Bill Gates, they put the fault into some ridiculous conspiracy. And funnily enough precisely who is benefiting from "it" are the rich capitalists, who continuously uses things like identity politics and political correctness, to make profit, to divide and conquer and to create a repressive culture. Something that the majority of the Frankfurt School and all of the Marxists are against, despise it and alerted against it.
From the "Cultural Marxist" Mercuse:
"Ever since the first World War, when the system of liberalism began to shape into the system of authoritarianism..."

It would be only a reply, so its incomplete but would be out of the theme of the thread so I started this thread to know the views of the ppl about it.
Warning some ppl who like Fascist Conspiracy: @Ledo @PxD @Sucrates @x-ray peat @Badger @Pet Peeve
And I think @yerrag maybe will like to talk about it. @Geronimo @TheSir

Sorry but I can't understand much of what you write. Intentionally obfuscated? I scanned this thread and it seems worthless. Mathias has everyone swinging at ghosts because I don't think his idea salad is edible.

Just read this, a bit long but worth it. This is what has "happened" to Western Civilization everywhere. Light bulbs will go on.

Anybody talking about economic Marxism and means of production blather is just distracting from their full armored assault coming right up your gut.

Cultural Marxism's Origins: How the Disciples of an Obscure Italian Linguist Subverted America | Zero Hedge | Zero Hedge

Btw, here is another great link and comments discussing Communism vs Fascism and central planning.

Hitler's Economics | Llewellyn H. Rockwell Jr.

 

[MatheusPN]

Sorry but I can't understand much of what you write. Intentionally obfuscated? I scanned this thread and it seems worthless. Mathias has everyone swinging at ghosts because I don't think his idea salad is edible.

Just read this, a bit long but worth it. This is what has "happened" to Western Civilization everywhere. Light bulbs will go on.

Anybody talking about economic Marxism and means of production blather is just distracting from their full armored assault coming right up your gut.

Cultural Marxism's Origins: How the Disciples of an Obscure Italian Linguist Subverted America | Zero Hedge | Zero Hedge

Btw, here is another great link and comments discussing Communism vs Fascism and central planning.

Hitler's Economics | Llewellyn H. Rockwell Jr.

In this text, they conflated and misrepresented, they didn't even quoted anything from Gramsci, which was the focus of their critique.
"Every State is a dictatorship." -Gramsci.
Your text only quoted Marcuse, a quote against fascism and chauvinism.
Was only bad interpretation, no quotes with context from them.
About Gramsci, he was against mass media, mass propaganda, mass cultural hegemony: Cultural hegemony - Wikipedia

Where is the quote, of him, Gramsci, affirming anything related to "Cultural Marxism. Affirming identity politics over class struggle or pro political correctness? He alike Marx said, things like, freedom for women is a good thing.
Can you provide any quote from the Frankfurt School, "Cultural Marxists" affirming: Identity politics or similars over marxism/ class struggle?

 

[MatheusPN]

To @Peater, about Ray liking marxism @tankasnowgod about Stalin. We cant confirm if the image is true...
@Energizer All thanks to and I will quote him.92% Of Polled Russians Want To Return To The USSR
"I would also re-iterate Ray is able to read Russian and has traveled there many times, even before the fall of the Soviet Union, and is widely read in Soviet history (See his book, "Mind and Tissue" if you want a sample of his writing about the Soviet Union), so I think it would be foolish to completely ignore his perspective on the topic as some of the commenters in this thread have suggested. Neither does it mean he is automatically right about everything, but his perspective on the topic has something to offer, imo."

"Stalin tried to resign 4 times from office, each time his attempt was rejected. He was a reluctant leader for many reasons. He was no dictator, he was elected General Secretary of the Party's Central Committee a few years before the death of Lenin, and was his protege. Decisions were made by majority rule. Stalin, like Lenin, wanted to emancipate the poor. The opinion that Stalin had unlimited power and trampled on the downtrodden is highly misinformed. Stalin had to to cede to Lenin and Krasin's opinions, and was just one vote in the Politburo and could be voted out by the Party Central Committee at any time if necessary. He was not an elite man by any means, he was born into a poor Georgian family and despised the elite. Part of the appeal of communism in the SU at the time was because for a very long time, Russia was ruled by the monarchs. The image of him as some lone, unhinged dictator is completely absurd (as is the image of him being some kind of christlike figure as well), but many in the West have been trained to believe this myth, same thing with even Russians in modern day, as there were opposition politicians like Kruschev and fascist collaborators like Trotsky that used every trick in the book to try to smear the name of communism and the easiest way to do that was by creating a narrative of Stalin as the big bad Soviet man as a "bloodthirsty dictator". Not at all accurate."

Spoiler: More

Our survival won’t depend on political or economic systems. It’s going to depend on the courage of the individual to speak the truth, and to speak it lovingly and not destructively... The integrity and the courage of the individual to speak his own truth and not to go along with the crowd, yet not making others seem ignorant. After a while, if enough human beings are doing it, then everybody will start going in the right direction." -Bucky Fuller

 

[Based Kantian]

You seem to have much more knowledged of it than I, no surprise kkkkkk
Yeah, those libtards again uniting with fascis? Ppl from university campus really hated later the likes of Adorno. Fascists killed some ppl from the Frankfurt School...
Horkheimer died 3 years later, then Marcuse. Wow, the 3 we're talking about!
Not only that, I forget more! To thanks a left-wing hero.
"In Berlin’s Alexanderplatz, a young Herbert Marcuse sees revolutionary action when he is charged with shooting rightwing snipers who themselves were targeting left-wing demonstrators and revolutionary agitators".

Im reflecting, demonstrate here or create a thread about what is fascism?

These are crucial readings from Adorno's last year on earth, all of which confront left wing authoritarianism and anti-intellectualism:


Interview with Spiegel: A Conversation with Theodor W. Adorno (Spiegel, 1969)

Resignation: https://platypus1917.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/adorno_resignation1969.pdf

Marginalia to Theory and Praxis: Theodor W. Adorno – Marginalia to Theory and Praxis | BHoA

Letters with Herbert Marcuse, his long time friend who was a staunch supporter of the student movement: Letters Between Adorno and Marcuse Debate 60s Student ActivismCritical-Theory.com

If thinking bears on anything of importance, then it initiates a practical impulse, no matter how hidden that impulse may remain to thinking. Those alone think who do not passively accept the already given