CT Scan Upcoming After Lung Infection Treatment

taesch

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Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
45
Last month I caught a cold, and using zinc acetate lozanges it cleared up after a day or two. I rarely get colds but sometimes get a tingle in my throat or mouth sores that go away before becoming full blown.
After a week of regular activity (including morning squash games), I went out and had a few beers on a Friday and was sleep deprived over the weekend. Then on the Monday morning, I was playing squash and couldn't catch my breath. That day at work I was very ill with chills, stomach bloat and and soon after had developped a cough and felt an infection type of thing in lower and mid left lung and . I saw my doc a few days later and I underwent an x-ray and started with a puffer. X-ray seemed to suggest pnuemonia (walking pnuemonia I presume) and I did a 5day course of z-pack.
After the z-pack, I had one good day and then on the next, I again felt feverish and had chills. I returned to the doctor who spent 40mins with me and was assured that respirology, internal medicine and medical imaging will be used to help. I was then prescribed 5 days of 750mg of Levifloxacin and a CT Scan was scheduled. I didn't realize an MRI is also an option but I can't find much info on why it isn't used as much other than it takes so much longer to conduct.
I requested from my doctor to consider changing the CT Scan for MRI but I doubt that will occur.
From reading Peat on radiation, I will load up on Aspirin, Niacinamide, Magnesium (which is contraindicted by Levifloxacin), Stressnon, Tyromix and caffeine. Additionally, I found a spa that has a red light therapy bed I can use right after the CT Scan.
It seems the big 'C' is what the doctor is hoping to rule out but getting cultures going doesn't seem to be as pressing. The lung infection is smaller but it's still there and I am not as energetic as usual. Also lost 5-10 pounds somehow. My TSH is very low, high T4 but lowish T3 which might be a normal reaction to fighting an infection. White blood cells are high but nothing I can see or my doc indicates any abnormalities from the labs.
If I go through with the CT Scan, is it possible to get methylene blue as the dyeing agent?
Is MRI an option just because I prefer it and don't mind waiting?
Thanks for reading!
 

aguilaroja

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Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
850
Briefly, in most nations CT scans are much "cheaper" than MRI, whether national health, private insurer, or consumer pays for it. It relates partly to the expense of the machines and partly to entrenched radiation interests. For most "indications", it is hard to get providers to authorize an MRI before a CT. Paying out of pocket for MRI is a large expense except for the ultra-rich. It is usually hard for even a very sympathetic physician to get approval for an MRI first, in place of a CT.

Methylene blue is not one of the contrast agents used for CT scans, if a scan with contrast is done. (Scans can be done without contrast, and may give ample information without contrast.)

If you go ahead with the scan, you could ask for lead apron-type shielding for areas outside of the chest (neck/thyroid & groin, for instance), while you are in the scanner. I have insisted on this for relatives getting scans. The radiology staff looks at me like I am an extraterrestrial. They insist, with ignorance and dishonesty, that radiation is precisely targeted and that there is no danger to body regions nearby. However, all radiology staff stand far away from the machines while running.
 
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taesch

taesch

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Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
45
I had my 'CT Scam' today. I tried to weasle my way into an MRI to no avail. No contact dye needed. Just a lead apron for the groin. I went to town with supps, jello, milk and red light etc... which I can elborate on later.
 

Regina

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Aug 17, 2016
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Chicago
I had my 'CT Scam' today. I tried to weasle my way into an MRI to no avail. No contact dye needed. Just a lead apron for the groin. I went to town with supps, jello, milk and red light etc... which I can elborate on later.
Do you have any lisuride? It really helped my lung infection.
 

DrJ

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Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
721
@taesch Hey my friend. Wish I had found your post sooner. My expertise, employment, and PhD research is and has been in the design and optimization of various CT scanners for various markets. I am very knowledgeable in x-ray physics and the transport and absorption of x-rays through and in the body. It's probably a little late, but in the case you're sent for another (or if anyone else would find this helpful) I will try to help out...

*Always prefer and fight for MRI if you can get it. There are very few diagnostic tasks that MRI isn't (often much) better at than CT, so don't let them tell you that; it's really an issue of cost. It sounds like you tried, and as someone said, CT is usually much cheaper in the USA. But interestingly, Japan's health system has managed to get MRI cost as cheap or cheaper than a CT scan so it is likely due to how your healthcare system is structured and how high of throughput they can organize through the MRI scanners. A CT or MRI is largely a fixed cost capital investment, so 'true' cost-per-scan depends on throughput. Bigger hospitals might offer better prices, but who knows in the US since the healthcare system is so screwed up. If it happens that the suspicious lump/blockage/malady is within a few inches of the skin surface, inquire also if an ultrasound could be done instead.

*I didn't see you mention Vitamin E. A good quality vitamin E is a great antioxidant to absorb the free radicals produced by ionizing radiation (x-rays, or gamma rays as in PET or SPECT scans). Take 400IU 30 minutes prior to the CT scan, and then another 400IU within 30 minutes after the CT scan. Continue to take 400IU/day for at least a week after the CT. Of course, you can take this daily if you want, just make sure it's not full of PUFA.

*The clinical CT scanners are designed to minimize the absorbed radiation dose, and are (theoretically) optimized to use the minimum dose possible with existing technology to still get adequate image quality for diagnosis if they are used properly. The problem actually arises from the technicians operating them. Studies following populations of people having CT scans found that there was a VERY wide variance in radiation-related problems afterwords - most with no problems, some with sever problems (hair falling out in the clear circular or helical path the beam follows). They traced it back to technicians being very sloppy in their operating protocols of the CT. At one point about 5-7 years ago it had gotten so bad that I seriously considered quitting my job and starting a training business that traveled around to hospitals teaching techs basic x-ray physics and why you use the CT scanner a certain way for each different type of study. Most of the hospitals freaked out, though, and started getting serious about their operating protocols, so the danger should be much less now. Don't freak out, though. It was still a pretty small amount of CT scans that went awry. Since the technicians that run the scans tend to be the biggest factor, I will offer some tips there...

*Regarding the technicians:
**If at all possible, try to talk to them. Ask them some of these questions: What energy or voltage will the CT be operating at for my scan? How long is the actual x-ray on time? Is this CT scanner model typical for my body size? Especially use this line of questioning: Are you using an x-ray filter? Like a bow-tie filter? Is it adjustable for my body size? What you are trying to do here is make sure the technician is paying attention to their job and thinking correctly to run the right protocol if their institution doesn't have strict controls. Express interest in the technology. Ask questions. There is probably very little you can do to make a big change to the way the intended scan is run, but if you "gently remind" them by acting interested in the technology, you're much less likely to experience a problem related to your tech just trying to finish this last scan un-carefully and not according to what you need before going to lunch. The best chance at dose reduction is through the x-ray filter, so that's why it's important to ask about that one.

*Regarding contrast agents: if you have a CT scan that requires a "contrast agent" to be injected, it is almost certainly iodine. Not the greatest thing in the immediate term for your thyroid function, but relatively harmless if you take care of your health and your body will eventually flush it out. If for some reason your option is between an MRI with an MRI contrast agent or a CT with a CT contrast agent (not likely) I personally would strongly prefer the CT and CT contrast agent (loaded up on Vitamin E of course). The MRI contrast agents have been poorly studied long-term and have almost always turned out to be carcinogenic. I think they've mostly backed off this and the FDA has become more strict (I don't follow MRI too closely) but the medical companies are always trying to push this because they can sell the MRI contrast agents for thousands to tens-of-thousands of dollars per ounce.

*The skinnier you are, the less overall radiation dose you'll absorb. The radiation dose absorbed goes up exponentially with body diameter, so if you know your CT scan is in a month or so, and you can work to drop even a few pounds, the 'payoff' will be big due to the exponential weighting. If you're a wide-hipped woman, and your CT scan is not of that area, ask to get a lead apron down there. Of course, everyone should also inquire about getting lead aprons wherever they can manage for the scan type you're getting. Sounds like you did this, so good job!

*If you have a scan just related to bones, like a "bone scan" make sure you are getting a protocol with the higher x-ray energy/voltage setting, and again, inquire about the x-ray filter used and suggest they use "a thick one". Counter-intuitively to some, a higher-energy CT scan with a good filter will deliver less dose to the tissue since most of the higher energy x-rays fly right through. The filter is important though, because it will eliminate all the lower-energy x-rays that would mostly be absorbed by your tissue. If you are having a study that requires soft tissue contrast - like finding a nodule or tumor - this option is probably not available.

Mostly, I wouldn't stress too much about a single CT scan every few years or so (but the less the better). If you went to a large hospital (or hospital run by one of the larger systems, like Kaiser), you most likely had a tech who had to follow strict protocols. It sounds like you've got the right idea with the aspirin and such, though. It's the wealthy people who do frequent "preventative" CT scans annually that should worry. To put it in perspective, smoking a few packs of cigarettes of tobacco raised with phosphate fertilizers (most) that contain radioactive elements are probably much more risky than a CT scan since the radioisotopes on the tobacco will deposit alpha- and beta-particles right on the tissue of the lungs, and those particles are quite a bit more harmful than x-rays (per unit).

Hope that helps and happy to help where I can.
 
OP
taesch

taesch

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Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
45
Tremedous information. THANK YOU.
I had been taking Dr.Peat's Progest E for its progesterone as I read that it heals lungs so I must have been getting a little Alpha Tocopherol vitamin E from it. Lung Cancer Survival Rate Doubled With Progesterone and Oestrogen Therapy - Bonnie J. Addario Lung Cancer Foundation
I am in Canada and the CT Scan was in a big hospital with protocol. Even so the assistant I spoke with was clueless and ridiculed my concerns of asking for a lead headpiece.
My mother just called and reminded me that I had lung problems growing up. As a baby I had the Kruppe and at 10 had whooping cough. She told me that for the whooping cough, I was xrayed front and back twice and once from the side but the doctors looking at my xrays couldnt figure out a shadow in my lungs and scheduled some sort of scan. She doesnt remember if it was a CT or MRI or what but she said there was a dye administered. The findings were that i had an abnormally large aorta that presented as a shadow, perhaps of blood movement, on the previous 3 xrays.
 
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taesch

taesch

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Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
45
I did have a ct scan at 10years confirmed from my mothers notes.
 

aguilaroja

Member
Joined
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Messages
850
@taesch ...
But interestingly, Japan's health system has managed to get MRI cost as cheap or cheaper than a CT scan so it is likely due to how your healthcare system is structured and how high of throughput they can organize through the MRI scanners.
...
*I didn't see you mention Vitamin E. A good quality vitamin E is a great antioxidant to absorb the free radicals produced by ionizing radiation (x-rays, or gamma rays as in PET or SPECT scans). Take 400IU 30 minutes prior to the CT scan, and then another 400IU within 30 minutes after the CT scan. Continue to take 400IU/day for at least a week after the CT. Of course, you can take this daily if you want, just make sure it's not full of PUFA...
There are many excellent points here, thanks.

There have been safer, less ionizing imaging technologies in the "pipeline" for decades. I've met engineers and researchers whose progress was halted by market forces rather than viability. I have also taken relatives in to hospital and seen, as described, not so careful CT scanning done while assurances are given about "more precisely targeted" "minimum dose".

I am not aware of data about protective effects of red light for x-rays. But it seems so helpful in soothing for other electromagnetic disturbances that it seems a good post-exposure rescue.

I have known a few people with anecdotal success with vitamin E following radiation injury. I suspect some of the other fat soluble vitamins are protective, but have know of less data and fewer anecdotes.

A recently analyzed radiation-resistant microbes has a lot of MK-7:
Spirosoma knui sp. nov., a radiation-resistant bacterium isolated from the Han River. - PubMed - NCBI
"The strain showed resistance to gamma radiation with a dose required to reduce the bacterial population 10 fold..."
"The detection of menaquinone MK-7 as the predominant respiratory quinone,..."
 
OP
taesch

taesch

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
45
Leading up to the scan I took lots of coffee, Magnesium, Aspirin, Vitamin K1, Niacinamide, Thiamine, Thyroid, Progest e, PanSterone, Lemon Turkish Delight throught the day to keep blood sugar steady, Jello for breakfast, Milk. Right before the Scan, I had a double espresso with lots of milk and sugar, then I had an alka-selzer.
 

Blue Water

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
268
@taesch Hey my friend. Wish I had found your post sooner. My expertise, employment, and PhD research is and has been in the design and optimization of various CT scanners for various markets. I am very knowledgeable in x-ray physics and the transport and absorption of x-rays through and in the body. It's probably a little late, but in the case you're sent for another (or if anyone else would find this helpful) I will try to help out...

*Always prefer and fight for MRI if you can get it. There are very few diagnostic tasks that MRI isn't (often much) better at than CT, so don't let them tell you that; it's really an issue of cost. It sounds like you tried, and as someone said, CT is usually much cheaper in the USA. But interestingly, Japan's health system has managed to get MRI cost as cheap or cheaper than a CT scan so it is likely due to how your healthcare system is structured and how high of throughput they can organize through the MRI scanners. A CT or MRI is largely a fixed cost capital investment, so 'true' cost-per-scan depends on throughput. Bigger hospitals might offer better prices, but who knows in the US since the healthcare system is so screwed up. If it happens that the suspicious lump/blockage/malady is within a few inches of the skin surface, inquire also if an ultrasound could be done instead.

*I didn't see you mention Vitamin E. A good quality vitamin E is a great antioxidant to absorb the free radicals produced by ionizing radiation (x-rays, or gamma rays as in PET or SPECT scans). Take 400IU 30 minutes prior to the CT scan, and then another 400IU within 30 minutes after the CT scan. Continue to take 400IU/day for at least a week after the CT. Of course, you can take this daily if you want, just make sure it's not full of PUFA.

*The clinical CT scanners are designed to minimize the absorbed radiation dose, and are (theoretically) optimized to use the minimum dose possible with existing technology to still get adequate image quality for diagnosis if they are used properly. The problem actually arises from the technicians operating them. Studies following populations of people having CT scans found that there was a VERY wide variance in radiation-related problems afterwords - most with no problems, some with sever problems (hair falling out in the clear circular or helical path the beam follows). They traced it back to technicians being very sloppy in their operating protocols of the CT. At one point about 5-7 years ago it had gotten so bad that I seriously considered quitting my job and starting a training business that traveled around to hospitals teaching techs basic x-ray physics and why you use the CT scanner a certain way for each different type of study. Most of the hospitals freaked out, though, and started getting serious about their operating protocols, so the danger should be much less now. Don't freak out, though. It was still a pretty small amount of CT scans that went awry. Since the technicians that run the scans tend to be the biggest factor, I will offer some tips there...

*Regarding the technicians:
**If at all possible, try to talk to them. Ask them some of these questions: What energy or voltage will the CT be operating at for my scan? How long is the actual x-ray on time? Is this CT scanner model typical for my body size? Especially use this line of questioning: Are you using an x-ray filter? Like a bow-tie filter? Is it adjustable for my body size? What you are trying to do here is make sure the technician is paying attention to their job and thinking correctly to run the right protocol if their institution doesn't have strict controls. Express interest in the technology. Ask questions. There is probably very little you can do to make a big change to the way the intended scan is run, but if you "gently remind" them by acting interested in the technology, you're much less likely to experience a problem related to your tech just trying to finish this last scan un-carefully and not according to what you need before going to lunch. The best chance at dose reduction is through the x-ray filter, so that's why it's important to ask about that one.

*Regarding contrast agents: if you have a CT scan that requires a "contrast agent" to be injected, it is almost certainly iodine. Not the greatest thing in the immediate term for your thyroid function, but relatively harmless if you take care of your health and your body will eventually flush it out. If for some reason your option is between an MRI with an MRI contrast agent or a CT with a CT contrast agent (not likely) I personally would strongly prefer the CT and CT contrast agent (loaded up on Vitamin E of course). The MRI contrast agents have been poorly studied long-term and have almost always turned out to be carcinogenic. I think they've mostly backed off this and the FDA has become more strict (I don't follow MRI too closely) but the medical companies are always trying to push this because they can sell the MRI contrast agents for thousands to tens-of-thousands of dollars per ounce.

*The skinnier you are, the less overall radiation dose you'll absorb. The radiation dose absorbed goes up exponentially with body diameter, so if you know your CT scan is in a month or so, and you can work to drop even a few pounds, the 'payoff' will be big due to the exponential weighting. If you're a wide-hipped woman, and your CT scan is not of that area, ask to get a lead apron down there. Of course, everyone should also inquire about getting lead aprons wherever they can manage for the scan type you're getting. Sounds like you did this, so good job!

*If you have a scan just related to bones, like a "bone scan" make sure you are getting a protocol with the higher x-ray energy/voltage setting, and again, inquire about the x-ray filter used and suggest they use "a thick one". Counter-intuitively to some, a higher-energy CT scan with a good filter will deliver less dose to the tissue since most of the higher energy x-rays fly right through. The filter is important though, because it will eliminate all the lower-energy x-rays that would mostly be absorbed by your tissue. If you are having a study that requires soft tissue contrast - like finding a nodule or tumor - this option is probably not available.

Mostly, I wouldn't stress too much about a single CT scan every few years or so (but the less the better). If you went to a large hospital (or hospital run by one of the larger systems, like Kaiser), you most likely had a tech who had to follow strict protocols. It sounds like you've got the right idea with the aspirin and such, though. It's the wealthy people who do frequent "preventative" CT scans annually that should worry. To put it in perspective, smoking a few packs of cigarettes of tobacco raised with phosphate fertilizers (most) that contain radioactive elements are probably much more risky than a CT scan since the radioisotopes on the tobacco will deposit alpha- and beta-particles right on the tissue of the lungs, and those particles are quite a bit more harmful than x-rays (per unit).

Hope that helps and happy to help where I can.
Hey thank you for your information. I had an abdominal CT scan recently myself and was not given a lead apron, not even offered a choice. Do you think it affected my lungs and chest as well now?
 

Samurai Drive

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Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
79
Hey thank you for your information. I had an abdominal CT scan recently myself and was not given a lead apron, not even offered a choice. Do you think it affected my lungs and chest as well now?
How did you feel afterwards? Thinking of doing the same.
 

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