Creatine Blunts Serotonergic Effects Of Methylene Blue And Caffeine

[Arrade]

The Chlorogenic Acid in coffee has a 5-AR inhibiting effect at doses that can easily be obtained with 1-2 cups of coffee (apparently dark roasts have less CA too). Not sure what the net effect is when considering the opposing effect of caffeine. We also see an association in males between coffee consumption and higher T and SHBG, perhaps from a reduced conversion into DHT.



Inhibition effects of chlorogenic acid on benign prostatic hyperplasia in mice. - PubMed - NCBI

Interesting. A year ago I told people I avoided coffee because I heard it raised estrogen (and several other reasons). I do wonder about that net effect

 

[General Orange]

HEY thanks @Elephanto, another reason for using coffee plus baking soda.. neutralizing the chlorogenic acids for more DHT.

@Arrade thread - coffee increases DHT

 

[Arrade]

HEY thanks @Elephanto, another reason for using coffee plus baking soda.. neutralizing the chlorogenic acids for more DHT.

@Arrade thread - coffee increases DHT

After reading the study I just wanted to point out that caffeine increased 5-AR activity by more than 30%, while other agents used like phenytoin and diazepam increased 5-AR activity by more than 2-fold. If niacinamide is a true benzodiazepine drug like Diazepam (as many Russian studies claim), then I wonder if niacinamide would also have the same activity - i.e. enhance 5-AR and increase DHT...

This is more interesting to me - niacinamide increasing 5ar perhaps

@General Orange he quotes 1 study that says caffeine raises 5ar, So only one body of evidence and only in regards to caffeine, not coffee as a whole.

 

[haidut]

This is more interesting to me - niacinamide increasing 5ar perhaps

It does, 2 years after the post you quotes I posted this thread.
Niacinamide Is Androgenic And Increases Dht Effects/signaling

 

[DawN]

I make my own "krealkalyn" by first resolving <500mg baking soda in warm water (Na-Ions also help take up of the Crea in the lumen), then adding little amounts of Citrulline Base (no malate contained), finally the Creapure (yes I am also a proud german consumer - "An deutschem Wesen wird die Welt genesen" (andernfalls wird sie untergehen...)) And yes the effect realy seems to be that the jitters and the nervousness I usually experience from coffee are diminished. I find creatine a great supp.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

For years I've noticed symptoms of increased serotonin and adrenaline from both Methylene Blue and Coffee/ Caffeine.

I've finally found a solution. 5g of Creatine (creapure), 5 minutes before consuming either completely blunts the stress effects.

I know several other people on the forum have similar reactions to both coffee/caffeine and methylene blue so I'd really recommend trying Creatine.

Furthermore, they are studies which show that Creatine raises Testosterone, DHT, Dopamine and lowers prolactin.

I use a very pure product called Creapure manufactured in Germany.

Also worth mentioning that for myself, Creatine seems to use up my B6 very quickly so I always take 100mg pyridoxine hydrochloride alongside the Creatine.

can you link the creatine you were taking?

 

[sladerunner69]

Creatine increases dht, and dht is a serotinin antagonist and receptor destroyer

Oh is that so? I would be very interested to see your source on this. It could help explain why my low DHT is so insufferable.

 

[sladerunner69]

can you link the creatine you were taking?

It's creatine monohydrate that is "extra pure". It is sold by many different brands but all sourced by the german manufacturer. Creapure Review - Pure Creatine Monohydrate Muscle Builder?

I remember this from my bodybuilding days gone by.

 

[ddjd]

can you link the creatine you were taking?

What is Creapure®? | Creapure - they sell it to many vendors and supplement companies so no need to buy direct from them.

I make my own "krealkalyn" by first resolving <500mg baking soda in warm water (Na-Ions also help take up of the Crea in the lumen), then adding little amounts of Citrulline Base (no malate contained), finally the Creapure (yes I am also a proud german consumer - "An deutschem Wesen wird die Welt genesen" (andernfalls wird sie untergehen...)) And yes the effect realy seems to be that the jitters and the nervousness I usually experience from coffee are diminished. I find creatine a great supp.

im glad to hear the creatine also helps you against the coffee jitters. very interesting about your creapure cocktail, i might have to try that, are you still doing this 2 years on?

@Joeyd I wonder if l-tyrosine or phenylalanine supplementation has the same effects as the creatine and DHEA ? any experience with them?

i will have to experiment with this and report back! sorry it took so long to reply!

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

@ddjd @sladerunner69 thanks :)

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Another thing to consider is it could be ATP that’s helping you tolerate coffee/caffeine better. I took this stimulant called 1-3 dimethylamylamine that was in a pre workout drink. Anyways when I would have a fruit smoothie with creatine I would not crash from it despite how insane that stimulant was.

 

[ddjd]

Another thing to consider is it could be ATP that’s helping you tolerate coffee/caffeine better. I took this stimulant called 1-3 dimethylamylamine that was in a pre workout drink. Anyways when I would have a fruit smoothie with creatine I would not crash from it despite how insane that stimulant was.

very possibly the case. I've got an ATP supplement so I will test this thanks

 

[ddjd]

see below

 

[ddjd]

@Waynish @Amarsh213 @vulture @Diokine @Amazoniac @Zpol

reviving this thread because i wanted to add that ive been finally able to supplement DHT and it has this exact same effect as blunting this serotonergic effect of coffee.

however im not sure if its the dopaminergic effect of these substances (creatine, dhea, dht) or simply having higher levels of the hormone DHT

 

[dukesbobby777]

@Waynish @Amarsh213 @vulture @Diokine @Amazoniac @Zpol

reviving this thread because i wanted to add that ive been finally able to supplement DHT and it has this exact same effect as blunting this serotonergic effect of coffee.

however im not sure if its the dopaminergic effect of these substances (creatine, dhea, dht) or simply having higher levels of the hormone DHT

What specific serotonin effects do you get from it? I’ve never noticed fatigue, malaise, learned helplessness, anger or a depressed mood from it. Serotonin, for me, is all about hibernation. Your body downregulating everything, so you can cope with the situation of stress. Coffee, on the other hand, just seems like a tool that forces the cells to operate at a higher gear (if used and fueled properly).

 

[ddjd]

What specific serotonin effects do you get from it? I’ve never noticed fatigue, malaise, learned helplessness, anger or a depressed mood from it. Serotonin, for me, is all about hibernation. Your body downregulating everything, so you can cope with the situation of stress. Coffee, on the other hand, just seems like a tool that forces the cells to operate at a higher gear (if used and fueled properly).

you have no idea what you're talking about. have you never heard of serotonin syndrome? Google the symptoms

 

[Motorneuron]

This is the point, as some have pointed out ... the impact of caffeine is lower than the other components contained in coffee ... of course it also depends on the quality and how it is prepared but as far as I'm concerned having tried high quality coffee I am much better without. Maybe after 10 days and I am out in the sociality I take it ... but it is no longer a daily habit.

Also, if you haven't noticed, caffeine lowers MAO A and can even inhibit over time, so I don't understand why the idea of combining methylene blue (MAO inhibitor A and maybe B) and coffee can help ... if you want to balance the MAO and increase its activity to compensate you can try with B2 being a cofactor, or even progesterone.
Vitamin C above 4gr seems to reverse the inhibition of caffeine ... but for each molecule you have to look at the big picture and it is not the details, otherwise it will create bottlenecks in the various metabolic and hormonal pathways ... which they are individual.

I hope I made myself understood.