Creatine Blunts Serotonergic Effects Of Methylene Blue And Caffeine

[ddjd]

For years I've noticed symptoms of increased serotonin and adrenaline from both Methylene Blue and Coffee/ Caffeine.

I've finally found a solution. 5g of Creatine (creapure), 5 minutes before consuming either completely blunts the stress effects.

I know several other people on the forum have similar reactions to both coffee/caffeine and methylene blue so I'd really recommend trying Creatine.

Furthermore, they are studies which show that Creatine raises Testosterone, DHT, Dopamine and lowers prolactin.

I use a very pure product called Creapure manufactured in Germany.

Also worth mentioning that for myself, Creatine seems to use up my B6 very quickly so I always take 100mg pyridoxine hydrochloride alongside the Creatine.

 

[Waynish]

Anyone have a mechanistic theory on this? How are MB's serotonin raising effects altered by creatine's metabolic pathway?

 

[ddjd]

Anyone have a mechanistic theory on this? How are MB's serotonin raising effects altered by creatine's metabolic pathway?

I just think Creatine is a very effective serotonin antagonist

 

[Deleted member 5487]

For years I've noticed symptoms of increased serotonin and adrenaline from both Methylene Blue and Coffee/ Caffeine.

I've finally found a solution. 5g of Creatine (creapure), 5 minutes before consuming either completely blunts the stress effects.

I know several other people on the forum have similar reactions to both coffee/caffeine and methylene blue so I'd really recommend trying Creatine.

Furthermore, they are studies which show that Creatine raises Testosterone, DHT, Dopamine and lowers prolactin.

I use a very pure product called Creapure manufactured in Germany.

Also worth mentioning that for myself, Creatine seems to use up my B6 very quickly so I always take 100mg pyridoxine hydrochloride alongside the Creatine.

creatine is known to increase dopamine, haidut even said intellgience.

One study said it wakes up the brain and increases performance the same way caffeine does(in the morning), but instead of increasing cortisol it actually increased testosterone in the morning.

 

[Arrade]

Creatine increases dht, and dht is a serotinin antagonist and receptor destroyer

 

[vulture]

Also worth mentioning that for myself, Creatine seems to use up my B6 very quickly so I always take 100mg pyridoxine hydrochloride alongside the Creatine

Why do you say that?
What are the potential inconvenients if one gets a cheaper creatine?

 

[ddjd]

Why do you say that?
What are the potential inconvenients if one gets a cheaper creatine?

Purity could be an issue. It's often the reason why peat doesn't recommend supplements.

The b6 issue seems to just affect a small percentage of people.
I noticed a correlation between nose bleeds and the creatine, which completely stopped after supplementing b6 pyridoxine hydrochloride with the creatine.

 

[Wagner83]

I wasn't aware of coffee having serotonergic effects. On an empty stomach it can give obvious issues but along with a meal highish in proteins it may not be optimal for most.
Thanks for sharing though, Amazoniac has made posts on creatine. I don't remember if they would fit here.

 

[Pulstar]

Could anyone please provide some links regarding serotonergic effects of coffee?

I was under the impression that coffee is very anti serotonin and pro dopamine.

 

[Curiousman]

Could anyone please provide some links regarding serotonergic effects of coffee?

I was under the impression that coffee is very anti serotonin and pro dopamine.

Does Caffeine Lower Serotonin Levels or Not?

 

[Arrade]

Does Caffeine Lower Serotonin Levels or Not?

Caffeine’s immediate effect on the body is to increase serotonin production and the total number of serotonin receptors. When combined with another medication or substance that increases serotonin levels, such as a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI), serotonin syndrome can occur.

***t boy I knew coffee was bad

 

[Waynish]

Caffeine’s immediate effect on the body is to increase serotonin production and the total number of serotonin receptors. When combined with another medication or substance that increases serotonin levels, such as a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI), serotonin syndrome can occur.

***t boy I knew coffee was bad

Yes how do we know its total result. If it up-regulates and then depletes... Then how does one measure the 'total serotonin' load over caffeine's lifetime throughout the body.

 

[Arrade]

Yes how do we know its total result. If it up-regulates and then depletes... Then how does one measure the 'total serotonin' load over caffeine's lifetime throughout the body.

Don’t ask me

 

[General Orange]

Caffeine’s immediate effect on the body is to increase serotonin production and the total number of serotonin receptors. When combined with another medication or substance that increases serotonin levels, such as a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI), serotonin syndrome can occur.

***t boy I knew coffee was bad

The immediate effect of caffeine is to increase serotonin levels,

+

However, once the caffeine is eliminated from your body, serotonin levels fall precipitously.

This should be read: serotonin uptake is increased, and also its excretion out of the body. Therefore blocking the reuptake with SSRI and the like can over-flood the synaptic cleft, thus can cause S syndrome.

 

[General Orange]

Also, more S receptors / upregulation means less chance of overload of S activity, therefore the bad effects of high S are reduced.

 

[General Orange]

For years I've noticed symptoms of increased serotonin and adrenaline from both Methylene Blue and Coffee/ Caffeine.

Increased symptoms of S... where/how... in the brain? in your veins? in the gut? Could you be more specific please...

 

[Diokine]

So what is the feeling of "anxiety," or "increased serotonin?" The complete description of what one is experiencing is beyond the scope of this reply or my knowledge, but an activation of the cholinergic nervous system and Phospholipase C are fundamental factors. Phospholipase C modulates neural oscillations by controlling the influx of ionic electrolytes. These oscillations create neural rhythms that we experience as emotional or cognitive states. Serotonin works in concert with this system to effect the response of nervous tissue to various impulses.

Methylene blue is a mild cholinesterase inhibitor and can be considered a pro-cholinergic drug. The "serotonergic" properties of methylene blue are probably best explained in this fashion. Cholinergic stimulation in essence "entrains" nervous activity, and in this context extends the duration of nervous impulses. Anxiety can be described in this context as a hyper reactivity of alpha brain waves (increased coherence and sychrony to stimulating events,) caused in part by cholinergic activity. The nervous reaction to stimulus and is exaggerated, the duration and duty cycle of transmission favors higher frequency modes, creating anxiety.

Creatine is a phosphate donor. Presence of phosphate donors (atp->adp, etc.,.) increases cholinergic sensitivity and fluency in tissues. This is partly due to increased generation of inositol phosphate and enhanced calcium channel signalling. So I think, roughly speaking, the anxiety induced by cholinergics is from a deficiency in calcium channel signalling which encourages high frequency oscillation, and limits long range coherence. So ingestion of creatine can be seen as enhancing the comprehension of your nervous system over your physiology.

 

[General Orange]

Maybe adding the creatine prevents the depletion of dopamine which reduces "symptoms of increased serotonin and adrenaline".

Creatine...has been shown to increase DA synthesis in the substantia nigra of mice by protecting against striata DA depletion (Klivenyi. 2003) and / or by enhancing the tyrosine hydroxylase activity and thus increasing the production of dopamine from its precursor tyrosine (Matthews. 1999).

 

[Arrade]

or what I said...

 

[Arrade]

By the way more receptors is a bad thing, it means more activation