1. **NEW Mini Body Light** MBL1 - Orange & Red Light Therapy Mini Body Light
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Cholesterol Powder
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Pau D'arco Bark
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Metabasoap - Handcrafted Soap
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Cocoa Butter - Organic & Fair Trade Certified
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Orange & Red Light Therapy Device - LGS1
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Cascara Sagrada Powder From Farmalabor In Italy
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice

Craving Only Fruits And Feeling Better

Discussion in 'Testimonials' started by andrei, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. andrei

    andrei Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey guys! I thought I'd share something interesting.

    For the past 3 weeks or so I stopped training. I was doing bodyweight training, but I was sleeping worse on the nights of training. I thought the body perceived it as a stress because I did not take a break in years.

    Anyway, since I do not train, I demand less food. Still around 2200-2400 calories per day. In the beginning, I was eating mostly fruits with some fish and milk. I did not really crave the fish and milk, but I was kind of "forcing it" to get protein. Sleep was good, but not perfect.

    The last few days I decided to experiment to listen to my signals only. I only ask for fruit, and very little milk. And when I do that, I sleep better. Weight is still stable.

    How come am I not asking for animal protein? I think this will be short-term until the body asks for more protein again. But is it trying to heal itself somehow with fruits only?
     
  2. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    Messages:
    4,536
    Gender:
    Male
    The new balance of amino acids allows your body to deplete certain ones once consumed but now deficient (methionine and tryptophan for example).
     
  3. OP
    andrei

    andrei Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you for the insight @DaveFoster !

    If I have deep sleep eating like that, it means that the cells are producing optimal energy to recover, right?
    If I force more protein, I sleep worse. I'm afraid I'll lose muscle. I think I look a bit flatter, although that may be biased because I'm trying to see it.

    Nonetheless, I keep eating lots of fruits until night, and then they become less attractive (to sweet already), and I start eating some fish with milk. So I end up with only around 30-40 grams of animal protein. First time this happening..
     
  4. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    Messages:
    4,536
    Gender:
    Male
    If your sleep quality improves, then that's a clear sign of an elevated and stable body temperature through the night. A similar effect can be had by using thyroid hormone or a dose of progesterone before bed, both of which will tend to suppress the elevation in serotonin, which can depress your body temperature.
     
  5. OP
    andrei

    andrei Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
    @DaveFoster thank you!

    I was thinking of taking thyroid, but my cholesterol is low (less than the range specified). And based on my TSH (1.4) they wouldn't prescribe it to me.
    I might try progesterone, or pregnenolone at one point. Although, I got my best results so far with no supplements (just glycine 1 gram).
     
  6. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    Messages:
    4,536
    Gender:
    Male
    Even a small amount of thyroid can be helpful sometimes (1/4 grain for example). 3-5 grams of glycine sends an inhibitory signal that primes your body for sleep, similar to melatonin but without the negative effects.

    If your cholesterol is low, then you can eat plenty of sugar in place of starch (and even an egg or two per day), and that will help raise it.
     
  7. OP
    andrei

    andrei Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
    @DaveFoster yeah, I'm doing only fruits and honey. Unfortunately, so much fruit will not be available all year.
    I'll try one day to get mostly honey, with some fruit. But I think in the long term, you get not enough nutrients for the calories.
     
  8. OP
    andrei

    andrei Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
    @DaveFoster could it be something related to the liver that the body is craving so much sugar and so little protein and fat?
    In my blood tests, I had one marker of liver health (bilirubin) elevated. All my other markers were good.
     
  9. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    Messages:
    4,536
    Gender:
    Male
    Hypothyroidism tends to impair the detoxification pathways of the liver, and bilirubin can accumulate. I had idiopathic Gilbert's syndrome after eating a ketogenic diet for a few months. It went away after eating carbohydrate.

    Thyroid hormones and the hepatic handling of bilirubin. I. Effects of hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism on the hepatic transport of bilirubin mono... - PubMed - NCBI

    The effects of thyroidectomy and of thyroid hormone administration on the hepatic transport of endogenous bilirubin were investigated in the Wistar R/APfd rat. Hypothyroidism resulted in an enhanced hepatic bilirubin UDP-glucuronosyltransferase activity and in a decreased p-nitrophenol transferase activity. It caused a cholestatic condition with a 50% decrease in bile flow and bile salt excretion, and an increased proportion of conjugated bilirubin in serum. The biliary output of unconjugated and monoconjugated bilirubins decreased in parallel by about 65%, whereas the excretion rate of the diconjugate dropped by only 47%, resulting in an increased di- to monoconjugate ratio in bile. Hyperthyroidism was characterized by a decreased bilirubin and an increased p-nitrophenol transferase activity, and by an augmented bilirubin output in bile. The output of unconjugated and monoconjugated bilirubins increased in parallel by about 50 or 100%, whereas the excretion of the diconjugate increased by only 20 to 50%, depending on the dose of thyroxine administered; this resulted in a decreased di- to monoconjugate ratio in bile. A linear positive relationship was found between bilirubin UDP-glucuronosyltransferase activity and the ratio of bilirubin di- to monoconjugates present in bile or formed by in vitro incubation of liver homogenates at low concentration of bilirubin (10 to 15 microM), indicating that bile pigment composition is mainly determined by the conjugation activity in the liver. The inverse relationship observed between hepatic beta-glucuronidase activity and the ratio of di- to monoconjugates in bile warrants further investigation to analyze whether this enzyme activity also plays a possible role in the changes in bile pigment composition in hypo- and hyperthyroid rats.
     
  10. OP
    andrei

    andrei Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
  11. Travis

    Travis Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,118
    Gender:
    Male
    I just found out that serotonin regulates protein consumption independently of insulin and leptin. Feeding experiments show that rats vary how much protein they consume in relation to the amount of serotonin in their brains. The total calories remain the same as the control groups.

    This has been confirmed in many other feeding studies.

    Leptin and insulin seem to control carbohydrate and fat intake, but protein intake is controlled independently of this by serotonin. The well known diet drug—fenfluramine—works in this way. Serotonergic drugs can have powerful influences on food intake.

    It makes sense. When serotonin is high, the body restricts additional tryptophan intake. How much you can handle might depend not only on your nervous system, but how the body partitions between the serotonin and kyneurine pathways. This also depends on liver function. There is some reason to believe that hepatic encephalopathy is caused by too much serotonin and/or tryptophan in the brain, although tyrosine and phenylalanine are usually elevated as well.

    It sounds like you your body might be telling you to avoid protein just to avoid tryptophan (serotonin).

    Whey powder and egg have the highest tryptophan ratios.
     
  12. OP
    andrei

    andrei Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
    @Travis Interesting..thank u..
    I am eating now around 12 bananas a day. Would that be a cause?

    So if i don't serotonin foods, my protein intake will go up?
     
  13. Travis

    Travis Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,118
    Gender:
    Male
    Well eating bananas does increase the serotonin metabolite 5-hydroxyindole acetic acid (5-HTAA). So much so in fact, that Dr. Waalkes said this in Science Magazine in 1958:
    The carcinoid tumor produces large amounts of serotonin and is a good model for studying it's effects. However, he also says that 30 milligrams taken orally have no perceptible effects while as little as 1mg injected have effect. I think monoamine oxidase might acetylate serotonin in the liver to the more inactive 5-HTAA.

    Others have confirmed this effect. It's one thing to read it and other to actually see it. Here are the cromatograms of people's blood after eating four bananas per day:
    banana.png
    Serotonin concentrations of bananas have been repoted at 17.0μg/g (Feldman, 1985) and 28μg/g (Waalkes, 1958). This corresponds to 2.2 and 3.6 milligrams for an average banana (130g). This is about how much they raise the urine 5-HIAA concentrations according to Richard Crout (1959) and Odink (1987).
    banana2.png (in μmol/g)
    So it's safe to assume that each banana has about 2.5 milligrams of serotonin that gets absorbed based on four published reports.

    But since large amounts of oral serotonin have little to no effect, I would assume that MAO works efficiently in most people. I think that tryptophan is a more important route and acts like a serotonin pro-drug.

    But you might expect banana amounts of serotonin to have an effect in the presence of an MAO inhibitor.
     
  14. Travis

    Travis Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,118
    Gender:
    Male
    I just stumbles across a quote by Hoffer and Osmond:
    So even with an MAOI, you wouldn't expect serotonin from bananas to reach the brain. The blood Trp/ΣLNAA ratio is still probably the best indicator for brain serotonin synthesis.

    In his 97 page chapter on tryptophan, David Bender says this:
    This was published in 1982, so Bender was not influenced by the SSRI propaganda and could speak plainly about serotonin's effects.

     
  15. OP
    andrei

    andrei Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    96
    Gender:
    Male
    @Travis thank you for the info!

    What is a sign of high serotonin?

    I know Ray Peat is not a fan of bananas, but I really like the very dark yellow ones. They are sweet and caloric.
    Otherwise, I don't have many good options left.
     
  16. Elephanto

    Elephanto Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2015
    Messages:
    584
    @Travis I'm not sure that these studies about serotonin in fruits not reaching the brain are actually valid. I had this plantain liquor and I wouldn't feel the dopamine high of alcohol because of it, it was so unpleasant. Then when I eat a lot of pineapples I think I can actually feel it, I become more aggressive and feverish.

    Anyway I also think that total protein intake is the biggest determinant of one's tryptophan levels and an advantage that vegans/non-carnivorous animals have. Even if you eat relatively low tryptophan protein, you're gonna have more tryptophan/serotonin at 100-150g of protein daily (like Ive seen Peat suggest) than someone who only eats 50g. Unless you go through the hassle of taking good amounts of tyrosine, bcaa and glycine at every protein meal but for some reason, when I tried that with whey I still felt serotonergic. It only worked when I waited and took the bcaa+tyrosine later.

    Good mentions on eggs and whey but don't forget turkey, one of the kings of tryptophan.
     
  17. Travis

    Travis Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,118
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, some serotonin could enter the brain. Scientific authorities can be mistaken. Perhaps Hoffer's experiments apparently showed that it hadn't because it was rapidly adsorbed onto platelets. Platelets can hold a great deal of serotonin, and act like a ballast keeping the blood levels in range. There is some evidence that the niacin flush works by releasing serotonin from the platelets, and flushing is a common sign in people with carcinoid.

    Tryptophan binds to albumin, not platelets. Tryptophan is the only amino acid bound non-covalently to a blood protein. Serotonin is so bioactive that we actually had to evolve mechanisms to keep both it, and its precursor tryptophan, in a very narrow range.

    It's complicated, and often paradoxical.

    It's a vasoconstrictor and a vasodialtor. It stimulates the small intestine and paralyzes the large one. Hoffer and Osmond state that it's part of the brain's limbic system, where emotions are controlled. Some early researches ascribed a sedative effect to it, directly opposing the catecholamines.

    An injection of trytophan will first produce sleepiness, followed by a period of arousal.

    It has been described as hypnotic. In a clinical setting, the "mood lifting" effect could perhaps better be described as lassitude or silliness. I'm not sure. But it seems that during the mid '80s researchers started genuflecting to the pharmaceutical companies by mentioning its "mood lifting" effects, perhaps to ensure further research grants. I think too much effort was spent focusing on this aspect of serotonin, largely for financial reasons. Many people would like to know what it does to memory and concentration.

    The effects of serotonin have been confounded by the fact that many drugs which inhibit it's production also inhibit other neurotransmitters, and some have psychological effects of their own. When measuring brain serotonin, researchers often measure the concentration of its metabolite 5-HTAA. A high level of this can mean multiple things. It could be indicative of increased indolamine turnover, or it could mean a shift to one biochemical pathway. There are other metabolites of serotonin besides 5-HTAA.

    The turnover rate says little about the steady-state brain serotonin concentration.

    Most serotonin is produced in the raphe nuclei. This is like the "head of the octopus', sending tentacles (neuronal processes) to other parts of the brain. Very much depends on what parts of the brain are being bathed in serotonin.

    But these serotonergic neurons only fire when a person is awake. This makes people think that it produces wakefulness. This is not a response to light, as these neurons start firing seconds before the animal actually wakes-up.

    Destroying the raphe nuclei does not lead to death, but it leads to a change in eating habits.

    Serotonin syndrome can cause hyperactivity and mania.

    It is entirely confusing. I think adrenochrome has more to do with schizophrenia than serotonin. This is produced in the brain from adrenaline, and is actually an indole. Catecholamines can become indoles, and dopamine can become dopachrome. Indoles are the most psychoactive (i.e. DMT, LSD*).

    I think it's hard to get a feel for what serotonin does because many of the experiments make too many assumptions and psychiatry is almost entirely subjective.


    *While technically an ergoline, this large ring structure actually contains within it an indole ring.
     
  18. Dobbler

    Dobbler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2016
    Messages:
    218
    Gender:
    Male
    Why are bananas problem when people here also consume starch, meat and pineapples?
     
  19. Reaper242xx

    Reaper242xx Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    47
    Gender:
    Male
    Try switching up the protein sources. I also weight train, however if I didn't the only animal proteins I would eat excluding dairy is oysters, liver, and gelatin. Trust me, when you quit lifting the need for muscle meat dramatically decreases. Eat liver and oysters each once a week, 3-6 tbsps. of gelatin a day, and some dairy and eggs daily. That's really all the protein a sedentary person needs. Plus don't forget most fresh fruits while exceedingly low in total protein do have a very high quality amino acid profile. Potatoes as well, though being a starch should definitely be limited.
     
  20. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,225
    same problem, any ideas?
     
Loading...