COVID-19 Vaccine Trials Are Essentially Pointless

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Health Discussions' started by haidut, Oct 21, 2020.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    ...because they won't tell us if the vaccines can prevent deaths or serious COVID-19 complications, or virus transmission between people. If you think I am trolling, check out the CNN and BMJ articles below - that is exactly what they are saying. If that is the case, then I do not see what is the point of those vaccine trials...unless the end goal is something else. One thing is certain - the claim that the vaccines are required before life can go back to normal is bogus, as there will be no proof they have any effect on any of the serious outcomes preventing which we were told required the lockdowns and used as justification for the actual (hugely expensive) vaccine trials themselves.

    @Drareg @Regina @boris @tankasnowgod

    Will covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren’t designed to tell us
    Covid-19 vaccine trials won't tell us if the shots save lives, expert notes - CNN

    "...The most advanced trials for coronavirus vaccines cannot tell researchers if the shots will save lives, or even if they'll prevent serious disease, a drug development expert pointed out Wednesday. The ongoing trials are only designed to show if the vaccines prevent infection -- and most infections are mild infections, Peter Doshi, an associate editor at the BMJ medical journal and a drug development specialist at the University of Maryland's school of pharmacy, said. "I think there are some pretty widely held assumptions about what we are getting out of Phase 3 studies," Doshi told CNN." "None of the trials currently under way are designed to detect a reduction in any serious outcome such as hospital admissions, use of intensive care, or deaths. Nor are the vaccines being studied to determine whether they can interrupt transmission of the virus," Doshi wrote in the BMJ."

    "..."Hospital admissions and deaths from Covid-19 are simply too uncommon in the population being studied for an effective vaccine to demonstrate statistically significant differences in a trial of 30,000 people. The same is true of its ability to save lives or prevent transmission: the trials are not designed to find out." Four vaccines being developed in the US are in the most advanced, Phase 3 stage of development: those being made by Moderna, Pfizer, AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson. They're "event-driven" trials, meaning that the goal is to keep them going until a certain number of volunteers become infected. If more infections are seen among people who got placebo, or dummy shots, it's an indication the vaccines prevented infection. But that doesn't mean the vaccines saved people from serious disease or death, Doshi argued. "Severe illness requiring hospital admission, which happens in only a small fraction of symptomatic Covid-19 cases, would be unlikely to occur in significant numbers in trials," he wrote."

    "..."People expect that the most severe part of the Covid iceberg -- the ICU admissions and hospitalizations and deaths -- that's what a vaccine would put an end to," he said. But the current trials will just look for early infections. It's possible to keep these current trials going and add onto them so that they will, eventually, answer the question of whether Covid vaccines save lives and prevent severe disease."
     
  2. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I think the goal is the surrogate endpoint of antibodies. Which proves nothing.
     
  3. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    To ensure that a widely deployed COVID-19 vaccine is effective, the primary efficacy endpoint point estimate for a placebo-controlled efficacy trial should be at least 50%, and the statistical success criterion should be that the lower bound of the appropriately alpha-adjusted confidence interval around the primary efficacy endpoint point estimate is >30%.


    o The same statistical success criterion should be used for any interim analysis designed for early detection of efficacy.

    o A lower bound ≤30% but >0% may be acceptable as a statistical success criterion for a secondary efficacy endpoint, provided that secondary endpoint hypothesis testing is dependent on success on the primary endpoint.

    https://www.fda.gov/media/139638/download#page12
     
  4. Regina

    Regina Member

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    The goal is most certainly something else.

    This clown can't stop smirking and chortling between his, "ahhhhhh", "ahhhhhhh".
     
  5. Geronimo

    Geronimo Member

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    They can end the "pandemic" literally any day they want. All they have to do is lower the cycle threshold down to the physiologically relevant level of 32 cycles and it will be done overnight. Never forget this. Whatever course of action they say "worked" will absolutely 100% have to go along with this drop in cycle threshold, considering the high cycle threshold is the main thing driving positive tests. One will be very public, one will not. We all know which.
     
  6. Recoen

    Recoen Member

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    Especially with the “emerging” T cell research. Emerging because the research has been there already.
     
  7. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    great point.
     
  8. Geronimo

    Geronimo Member

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    If a total schlub like me can find all this stuff out in about 150 hours on my phone, then you know the people running the show are very very well aware of it. This directly implicates them as conspirators, considering the entire pandemic response was very very well planned out before 2020 began. I see no other way around it. If there's anything the public should be DEMANDING, it's one or both of these: drop the cycle threshold to 32, stop blindly counting any covid positive death as a covid death. Trump not doing this pretty much pulls the sheets on his credibility. If he were truly not a globalist, he'd make this happen. The test's cycle thresholds are everything when it comes to the data. If only half a percent tested positive, nobody would give a crap, even if they bought the narrative. It would be over. Counting policies are right behind it for importance. This will never end until either us or them make it end by changing the cycle threshold. I repeat: it will never fu**ing end until this happens.
     
  9. rei

    rei Member

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    So after getting caught with brainwashing and deception they should stop it? Instead of getting sued? There is no scientific research supporting high cycle count, and plenty of references to see that as it is increased positive count approaches 100%

    It's not incompetence, it's not error, it's planned, coordinated fraud.
     
  10. LucyL

    LucyL Member

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    Researchers Warn Some Covid-19 Vaccines Could Increase Risk Of HIV Infection

    The researchers warn of a “cautionary tale” from efforts to create an HIV vaccine over a decade ago, where a promising vaccine candidate actually increased the risk of some men catching the virus.

    The vaccine made use of a modified virus — called adenovirus 5 (Ad5) — as a vector to transport some of HIV’s genetic material into the body.

    Exactly how the vaccine increased the risks of HIV transmission is unknown, but a conference convened by the National Institutes of Health recommended against further use of Ad5 as a vector in HIV vaccines (Dr. Anthony Fauci was lead author of the paper outlining this position.)

    Ad5 is used as a vector in some Covid-19 vaccines — Science identifies four such candidates that are currently undergoing clinical trials in various countries around the world, including the U.S., with two in large scale phase 3 trials ongoing in Russia and Pakistan.
     
  11. Geronimo

    Geronimo Member

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    Right. That's exactly what I'm saying. It's so horribly unscientific and incompetent that the only explanation is it was planned for another agenda. We the people need it to just stop, at the very least. If it was up to me, I'd find every one of them and make them physically accessible to the people who had family members die because of lockdowns or incubators. These family members would be able to dole out their own punishments with impunity, for the whole world to watch on a live feed. I'd even recommend we make incubators and high-dose vaccines available as methods of punishment against the perpetrators.
    There is no end to the hatred I have for these people. It's deeply personal for me. My punishment for them would be to spend the rest of their miserable lives working 21 hour shifts harvesting bull semen into buckets. If they acted up or made a mistake, they'd get another dose of the vaccine. I'd fatten them up by forcing soybean oil and bull semen gavages on them for a nice little keto balance of fats and proteins. If it weren't for laws, I'd be retrofitting the farm I had to move back to for this purpose.
    So yeah, we can start with ending the public's suffering and then move on to justice. Sorry it got so dark.
     
  12. rei

    rei Member

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    yes it got dark, don't waste your mind on planning such scenarios. Just acknowledge the crime and move on, otherwise your mind will become dark.
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Do you know of any public statement explaining why they chose Ct value of 40 for this test and not the lower values of 34 or even below 30 as used on other RT-qPCR viral tests? It looks like even mainstream media tried to complain about the high Ct value but nothing came out of it.
    Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.
    One number could help reveal how infectious a COVID-19 patient is. Should test results include it?

    There are even studies complaining about the high Ct, but to my knowledge no politician or publi health official has ever brought this up.
    To Interpret the SARS-CoV-2 Test, Consider the Cycle Threshold Value
    "...This high sensitivity for viral RNA can be helpful for initial diagnosis. However, reporting as a binary positive or negative result removes useful information that could inform clinical decision making. Following complete resolution of symptoms, people can have prolonged positive SARS-CoV-2 RT-PCR test results, potentially for weeks, as Xiao et al report. At these late time points, the Ct value is often very high, representing the presence of very low copies of viral RNA [5–8]. In these cases, where viral RNA copies in the sample may be fewer than 100, results are reported to the clinician simply as positive. This leaves the clinician with little choice but to interpret the results no differently than for a sample from someone who is floridly positive and where RNA copies routinely reach 100 million or more."

    "...A positive RT-qPCR result may not necessarily mean the person is still infectious or that he or she still has any meaningful disease. First, the RNA could be from nonviable or killed virus. Live virus is often isolable only during the first week of symptoms but not after day 8, even with positive RT-qPCR tests [9]. Second, there may need to be a minimum amount of viable virus for onward transmission. For infection control purposes, the utility of the assay is greatest when identifying people who are floridly positive and at risk of further transmission. Particularly when testing in the absence of symptoms for COVID-19, we believe that reporting the Ct value or range could help to better inform clinical decisions."

    "...We propose that for inpatients whose symptoms have fully resolved and 2 tests over 24 hours apart are either negative or close to the Ct cutoff (ie, Ct >34), they likely do not have meaningful or transmissible disease, and thus do not need to be retested. This would conserve valuable testing capacity, reagents, and personal protective equipment (PPE). Furthermore, the clinician could take the Ct results in context and determine when the patient can discontinue isolation. This could shorten the duration of isolation and, for healthcare workers and other essential workers, would provide a more evidence-based, testing-informed pathway for more rapid return to work. Taking the Ct value into account may also help justify symptom-based strategies recommended by the CDC including time-since-illness-onset-and-resolution-based approaches (ie, lifting of isolation after 10 days following onset of symptoms and 3 days following resolution of symptoms) [4]. Lastly, there may be implications for public health screening, enabling contact tracers to focus on persons most likely to be infectious. This will become increasingly important as asymptomatic screening expands."
     
  14. Geronimo

    Geronimo Member

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    Yeah I've seen all that stuff. I think 33 would be a good national and worldwide standard. This is the only hope the public has of ending this crap. All efforts of free thinking people should be directed towards this one thing. It's the one thing holding everything up and it's also the weakest link in the chain. Everything else can be written off by idiotic coincidence theorists. This glaring flaw of the tests can not.
     
  15. Max23

    Max23 Member

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    Plus there are several treatments with near 100% success. It would be so easy to just give the sick the treatment or even for people getting sick. People would get over the coronafear much easier if they knew how easy it is to treat. This point has to be emphazised as well. Right now it is being heavily protected by censorship.
    Dr. Vladimir Zelenko leads a White House petition asking Dr. Fauci and 3 others be charged and brought to justice for "Crimes Against Humanity / Mass Murder" | Tech News | Startups News
     
  16. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    True, and they could have ended it any other day using many other techniques. Have Fauci yell into a Bullhorn that "It's Over!" Lower the cycle. Reveal that PCR can't detect illness in a real world fashion. Point out All Cause Mortality. Fake an alien invasion where the head alien gives a press conference that this whole COVID nonsense was a con. Feature any one of the 1,000s of doctors/nurses/researchers that have pointed out the problems with this operation from the get go. Force the CDC to put out a memo that literally just says "Whooops! We were wrong! Everything is Okay!"

    The vast majority of people are simply scared into compliance, and have no clue of the reality. And reality was irrelevant from the get go, as they were scarred into compliance with prophecy, although that prophecy was made to look "scientific," thanks to Neil Fergeuson's bogus computer models. That model was like a flashback to 80's action movies, where computers= magic.

    The one politician I gained respect for was Ron DeSantis, because even though he fell for the predictions early on, he took the media and health officials to task in late May, contrasting their doomsday predictions, with what actually happened over the same time period. That would have been a good technique for ending it earlier, too.

    I really thought June would have ended it, simply by being summer. Man, was I wrong about that.
     
  17. Regina

    Regina Member

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    I agree. I'm in Florida right now.
    But Ron was immediately punished for going against the agenda.
    Genius Covid knew to strategically target those restaurants and bars...
    One just has to look at armswatch to see how dedicated our liege lord's are in studying aerosolized methods of releasing lab grown pathogens.

    Ominously, Gates recently singled Ron out.
    At the 22:50 minute mark
     
  18. boris

    boris Member

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    Bogus vaccines for a bogus pandemic. Pretty fitting :lol:
     
  19. Ras

    Ras Member

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    This is correct.
     
  20. Ras

    Ras Member

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    The RT-PCR test is not a test - it's a manufacturing technique whose inventor repeatedly proclaimed cannot be used to diagnose infectious etiology. There is no published evidence that anyone on Earth has isolated the exosomes they are calling COVID-19. There are numerous papers claiming they have, but careful study of the papers will reveal that none of them succeeded. The RNA they are multiplying with RT-PCR is common to most, if not all, coronaviruses. According to published research, no researcher has ever infected cells or animals with anything called a virus and produced illness. All they have ever done is starve and poison cells to produce exosomes, which are what they call viruses.
     
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