Covid 19: Sweden shames France's lies

[burtlancast]

Yes,

They are denouncing the effects, but never the causes. So they make sure things are getting perpetuated.

After watching it, one is left unable to come-up with a solution out of this.

A pure exercise in futility.

 

[Giraffe]

Yes,

They are denouncing the effects, but never the causes. So they make sure things are getting perpetuated.

After watching it, one is left unable to come-up with a solution out of this.

A pure exercise in futility.

The main problem I see is that the mass media more or less offer only one perspective (the official narrative), and they defame the critics. The ARTE documentary offers a different perspective, and they reach people that do not read alternative media. If that documentary helps some people to get out of the panic mode, if it reminds people how valuable debate and compromise are for our societies: then it is part of the solution.

What kind of solution do you expect it to offer or for which problem?

 

[bk_]

The main problem I see is that the mass media more or less offer only one perspective (the official narrative), and they defame the critics. The ARTE documentary offers a different perspective, and they reach people that do not read alternative media. If that documentary helps some people to get out of the panic mode, if it reminds people how valuable debate and compromise are for our societies: then it is part of the solution.

What kind of solution do you expect it to offer or for which problem?

This ex-KGB defector who had been active in the art of ideological subversion and also a student of oriental history, lecturer and researcher in political science understood very well the problem of society and also the solution:

 

[Giraffe]

This ex-KGB defector who had been active in the art of ideological subversion and also a student of oriental history, lecturer and researcher in political science understood very well the problem of society and also the solution:

His lectures really are interesting, but what exactly are you trying to say? What should people do?

 

[burtlancast]

The main problem I see is that the mass media more or less offer only one perspective (the official narrative), and they defame the critics. The ARTE documentary offers a different perspective, and they reach people that do not read alternative media. If that documentary helps some people to get out of the panic mode, if it reminds people how valuable debate and compromise are for our societies: then it is part of the solution.

What kind of solution do you expect it to offer or for which problem?

In that case,you could make the same point for the 911 doc "The power of nightmares" where an alternate narrative was offered to the public, contradicting the official 911 account on very minor points, yet just as dishonest when it comes to what really happened.

It's called lies by omissions and distortions: the MSM has perfected it to an art form.

They are going to keep lying as long as they are getting paid.

The only solution is to stop watching them and start investigating by yourself.

Right now they are scrambling like mad to censor the news about ivermectin curing and preventing COVID at nearly 100%. It's not ARTE who's going to talk about it.

 

[Giraffe]

In that case,you could make the same point for the 911 doc "The power of nightmares" where an alternate narrative was offered to the public, contradicting the official 911 account on very minor points, yet just as dishonest when it comes to what really happened.

It's called lies by omissions and distortions: the MSM has perfected it to an art form.

They are going to keep lying as long as they are getting paid.

The only solution is to stop watching them and start investigating by yourself.

Right now they are scrambling like mad to censor the news about ivermectin curing and preventing COVID at nearly 100%. It's not ARTE who's going to talk about it.

Most people don't know how to investigate anything. They will read what a so-called fact checker has written, and believe that this is thorough research. I do not think that the ARTE documentary distorted anything.

 

[burtlancast]

I do not think that the ARTE documentary distorted anything.

I casually listened to it, but right at the beginning, they mention Sweden had 5 times the death rate compared to GERMANY (not France, my bad) at the start of the epidemic.

This is misleading, since the great majority of these deaths happened in the EPHADS where doctors were purposely left without any means to stop the infections. I believe a Swedish doctor working there even resigned in protest.

They evidently wanted to make it appear as if it was the unprotected general public that was dying, when in fact it was only the elderly because they were being sacrificed.

 

[Giraffe]

I casually listened to it, but right at the beginning, they mention Sweden had 5 times the death rate compared to France at the start of the epidemic.

This is misleading, since the great majority of these deaths happened in the EPHADS where doctors were purposely left without any means to stop the infections. I believe a Swedish doctor working there even resigned in protest.

They evidently wanted to make it appear as if it was the unprotected general public that was dying, when in fact it was only the elderly because they were being sacrificed.

They compared the death rate in Sweden with the one in Germany (not France), and they discuss briefly that Sweden didn't do enough to protect the elderly in the residents. Check the 38 and 48 minute marks.

 

[burtlancast]

5.21: "Proportionally, Sweden has registered 5 times de number of deaths than Germany"



As i said, it's totally misleading for the reasons i stated, but ARTE invented it anyway because it supports the narrative they were looking after since the very beginning.

 

[Giraffe]

They also said that the death rate was as high as in France, with France having very strict Lockdown measures in place, while Sweden only had recommendations. How is that supporting the narrative?

 

[Arclight]

I live in one of the larger cities in Sweden. Despite being a "leftist", if by leftist you mean believer of socialism, I have no interest in blindly trusting corporate media or gladly following orders from authorities. Nor do I feel any spite or anger towards those looking for alternative narratives of what's going on.
When I talk to friends who are left leaning, most of them are happy that we don't need to endure strict lockdowns or draconian measures.
Imo, I would say that the loudest critics of Swedens strategy are people coming from a conservative or libertarian standpoint. There, the argument goes that Sweden is (as always) weak cowards, who have failed miserably in protecting our elderly and sick, either because of our governments failure to act fast and with authority, i.e have the "balls" to lockdown properly, or because of our unwillingness to make swift and smart solutions. The big newspapers have published critique from different swedish scientist saying that the Swedish strategy is deeply flawed. Not to dwell to much on the political scale here, but, I don't think these high status scientists who support more lockdowns and more mask mandates argues from a leftist standpoint. The Swedish leftist party talks a lot about protecting those doing manual labour, unable to work frome home.
The vaccine question polarization is notably present here as well, but there are people with all sorts of political leanings in the "pro vacc camp" as well as in the skeptical one.
I have no idea if the rapports on death cases is somehow flawed or skewed. Maybe, maybe not. I have a relative who works as a physical therapist at a major hospital. She says that there is a lot more people being admitted, and she also receives lots of recovering covid patients who need physical therapy because the illness (or hospital treatment) has made them very weak, unable to breath normally and so on.

My girlfriend tested positive for the virus seven months ago. She got mild symptoms, but her sense of smell and taste disappeared completely for weeks and is still a bit messed up. I did not catch it from her despite sleeping in the same bed. At least I got no symptoms.

I don't percieve any increased anger or hate between regular people on the streets, but I think that could be ramped up if the restrictions got worse. The fact that most people can continue to work, going out to restaurants at during the day or spend time outside without being bothered by weird new laws helps public health I think.

 

[Giraffe]

She got mild symptoms, but her sense of smell and taste disappeared completely for weeks and is still a bit messed up.

Does your girlfriend maybe need a little more zinc?

 

[LucyL]

@Arclight So who in Sweden do you see as responsible for the relative sensible approach that has been predominate thus far?

 

[Rave re-peat]

I feel very fortunate living in Sweden. But we are not completely open. People here work everyday tho. Wich i think is most important. People can sustain themselves. But Main jobs have Still been Lost. Nothing is open after 8 in the evening anymore. Most activity stuff have closed like cinemas etc. Only gyms are Still open lol. And like 20% are wearing face masks. But life here is basically go to work buy groceries and then Go home.

 

[Arclight]

Does your girlfriend maybe need a little more zinc?

Yeah, I've seen people talking about the possibility of such problems being related to low zinc. Maybe something worth trying out.

 

[Arclight]

@Arclight So who in Sweden do you see as responsible for the relative sensible approach that has been predominate thus far?

I think the governments strategy has been created mostly by listening to recommendations from the public health agency. I think the agency includes a whole group of epidemiologists with different views, ie no executive big boss has the most important and final saying in things. However, the current state epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, as well as the former, Johan Giesecke has both been influential voices since they do lot of press interviews etc. I believe there are a lot of english interviews with them online since different countries have been interested in the "alternative approach".

For example, these two have been talking about efficacy vs effectiveness in the use of mask mandates, we don't know what the real world effects will be just because they have been proven in some contexts to reduce transmission etc. So therefore, it's not worth having mandates for it, or for that matter having the police walking around outside overseeing law abiding mask wearers all day etc. They also often bring up the fact that since some countries have locked down completely but still have even bigger issues than Sweden, there are probably other unknown factors being at play when it comes to how the disease spreads in populations.

In general, these people from the public health agency haven't been afraid to say "I don't know", "We don't know yet", "Maybe" and so on. Even if a lot of people think they have failed miserably since so much more of the elderly population have died with covid here in comparison to the neighbour Norway for example, I for myself at least appreciates their unwillingness to appeal to authority or pretend they have everything under control if the plebs just do as the say. At least they have the humbleness to say "I don't know" on national TV, instead of standing with a suit in some insane glossy "Wear a mask"-commercial like some other people in their position.

 

[Quelsatron]

@Arclight So who in Sweden do you see as responsible for the relative sensible approach that has been predominate thus far?

The political establishment which both is bleeding money and thus don't want to tank the economy, and also is a bit lazy, legally tied down and have a tradition of not really doing anything to solve problems. If they were really sensible they would have put a lot more care into protecting care homes and into making sure people returning from abroad (including italy and china) are properly quarantined.
There is no reason to assume sweden is ruled by more benign people than anywhere else

 

[LLight]

My girlfriend tested positive for the virus seven months ago. She got mild symptoms, but her sense of smell and taste disappeared completely for weeks and is still a bit messed up. I did not catch it from her despite sleeping in the same bed. At least I got no symptoms.

When you see that the "secondary attack rate" (as they call it) is less than 20% in some studies, you know that COVID is not the hyper transmissible virus as was thought at the beginning (probably China propaganda) or that most people are not susceptible.

 

[Arclight]

The political establishment which both is bleeding money and thus don't want to tank the economy, and also is a bit lazy, legally tied down and have a tradition of not really doing anything to solve problems. If they were really sensible they would have put a lot more care into protecting care homes and into making sure people returning from abroad (including italy and china) are properly quarantined.
There is no reason to assume sweden is ruled by more benign people than anywhere else

I agree that Sweden could have acted differently in the beginning of the pandemic. Likewise, the countries with strict lockdowns who makes children wear masks at school can act differently now.
However, I wonder if there is any country with a succesful "tradition of solving problems" historically.
I guess that it depends on what you mean with solving. You could solve problems with an infectious disease very quick by having soldiers in hazmat suits locking people up in their own homes. You can also close entire nations, rejecting people at the border and so on. Or you can rob other countries of their wealth and resources to afford creating welfare in your own. But then you will have new shiny problems to solve, I guess. Has anyone solved the covid-problem in a fulfilling maner?

Regarding the strategy to not lockdown societies as benign is not the same thing as claiming this strategy is a result of a council of benign people at the top doing exclusively benign things.

 

[Arclight]

Yeah, in regards to the secondary attack rate it's a bit of a curious case. Her mother didn't get sick either, despite them being in the same room several days in a row when she was sick, albeit "keeping distance".
However, the weeks before she got sick she didn't go to public venues and did not interact with friends or coworkers who was sick, so she still has no clue how she catched it, still puzzling.