Covid-19 Causing Irreversible Lung Fibrosis

[tara]

they will just keep arguing that ScIeNcE ProVeS YoU WrOnG and blah blah blah. It's extremely annoying. If

That's how science works, mainstream or not - it uses evidence to prove hypotheses wrong. It's systematic.

Personally I hate debating with people who get all butt hurt when something that opposes mainstream science is brought up.

I don't know how to progress a discussion when there doesn't believe there is such a thing as objective reality.

If we all believed mainstream science we wouldn't be on this forum.

If Peat didn't learn from published science, including quite a lot of mainstream ideas, none of us would likely be here. AFAIK, he questions some mainstream ideas, but he hasn't thrown out all of anatomy, physiology, chemistry, etc or the idea that there is an objective reality to study.
If we take a reactive position of automatically rejecting any idea that shows up in mainstream science (or media), we'd be throwing out most of human knowledge, to our detriment. That doesn't mean it's all correct, or that we shouldn't challenge ideas when there is evidence, as Peat and others do. But just rejecting ideas because they are in the mainstream leads nowhere good. All scientists, if they are doing their job, have the potential to change the mainstream view of reality.

 

[tara]

Where did I ever say don't assist the body in the face of a bad infection?

What do you mean by infection? Maybe I misunderstood you - what do you think infection is, if not pathogenic microbes coming from outside a host attempting to colonise a host? I thought when you said 'germs' don't cause disease, you were saying there was no such thing as infection?

If those cannot be helped then by all means get out the big guns to save a life. Depends on the infection..

That's what people are trying to do with COVID-19, to save lives. I'm confused. I thought you'd spent several posts arguing that containing/limiting and treating the infections was unnecessary and foolish.

 

[tara]

I'm not sure why being wealthy has anything to do with infection risk?

Many places there are infectious diseases that are much more common where there is poverty and overcrowding.
In many places, wealthy people are more likely to be able to afford decent nutrition, less likely to live or work in toxic conditions, less likely to have to work 2 or more jobs, less likely to have a job that is physically hazardous, more likely to have a cleaner, more likely to get useful healthcare when they need it, less likely to have to go to work to put bread on the table even when they are infectious or vulnerable, .... more likely to have higher life expectancy. It's not a guarantee, but it raises the odds.
If they choose to engage in high risk activities, they can undermine the advantage.

Plus going abroad or on travels sometimes means going to places with terrible sanitation. I have stated multiple times lack of sanitation can be deadly.

Visiting places with poor sanitation is more hazardous than living in them?

Do you see vulchers who eat rotten meat falling out of the sky from germs?

I've not studied vultures specifically, but animals tend to have some adaptations for their diet. Extra strong stomach acid can be really useful for inactivating disease-causing pathogens.

 

[Braveheart]

Wouldn’t breathing in extremely polluted air cause pulmonary fibrosis as well? Just curious how they can separate the effects of either or

Supposedly the extreme pollution in Milan and the PO valley of Italy is a factor in Covid-19...a connection here?

 

[Braveheart]

I can't go into milkshake theory right.

I would be in cash, I would also buy puts on the regional/big banks and some small oil companies.Though the premiums are probably outrages already.

Gold is gonna fall like a b****, then it will SOAR. Just like 08.
Silver is probably even a better asset. Your gonna see DEFLATION accross the board.

What your seeing here is a "Return to Fair Value" everything in the economy was about pumping up asset prices. People income stayed put for decades, yet their house/stocks went up. The wealth effect. This allowed them to consume more on credit/auto/house/loans. The GAME IS OVER.

We are returning to fair value.

So Alot of houses/stocks will be going WAY down, particularly once the lag hits of shutting down ever event in the united states and travel to europe. I Suspect large protests and potential Tax Strikes. Munichin the treasury sectary is already floating the idea.






He did this yesturday

Stockman can explain it better than me.

Stockman

 

[unicorn]

There is no such thing as "irreversible" fibrosis, in the lungs or anywhere else. After decades of lying, Big Pharma is now quietly buying up 5-HT2B antagonists like terguride and using them to reverse heart, lung, and even liver fibrosis (cirrhosis).
Pfizer Enters Into Agreement With Ergonex Pharma To Acquire Investigational Treatment For Pulmonary Arterial Hypertension | Pfizer
"...Terguride is an oral, potent antagonist of 5-HT2B and 5-HT2A (serotonin) receptors. Serotonin stimulates the proliferation of pulmonary artery smooth muscle cells, and induces fibrosis in the wall of pulmonary arteries. Together, this causes vascular remodeling and narrowing of the pulmonary arteries. These changes result in increased vascular resistance and PAH. Due to the potential anti-proliferative and anti-fibrotic activity of terguride, this potential medicine could offer the hope of achieving reversal of pulmonary artery vascular remodeling and attenuation of disease progression."

Terguride is just a patentable version of lisuride. Its chemical name is dihydro-lisuride. As such, other chemicals from the same ergot group as well as other (structurally unrelated) 5-HT2B antagonists may also reverse fibrosis in pretty much any organ/tissue.
5-HT2B Receptor Antagonists Inhibit Fibrosis and Protect from RV Heart Failure

Btw, blocking serotonin may actually be protective against even catching the virus as discussed in other threads since most viruses seem to require activation of one or more of the 5-HT2 receptors in order to be able to hijack the cell.

Finally, lung fibrosis after a viral infection has been known for more than a century. The flu can also cause it (as can other respiratory viruses), so this property of Covid-19 is nothing special/unique.
Finding the smoking gun of lung fibrosis after influenza
https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/ajrccm-conference.2013.187.1_MeetingAbstracts.A4171
Flu and pulmonary fibrosis

And as always, Haidut comes to save the day. Thanks for clearing out this question regarding irreversible "whatever".

For the virus, I feel that immunity is number 1, if you're healthy, you have a very good chance of.

 

[InChristAlone]

I love it how the debate is about attacking every word I say instead of the actual scientists I quoted. So now it's just a PISSING match.

I will continue reading scientists who had a lot to offer the world, including Ray Peat, but I do not agree with his theories on creating sterility any longer. I very much used to and had the worst health of my life. Thankfully that did not extend to my children because their microbiome was way better than mine ever was and they experience a robust immune system, I had no need to mess with it.

One last thing about ascorbic acid... I do believe it has HELPED me get a better balance in my intestinal tract but I do not flush my bowels, I have regular formed stool especially when eating resistant starches so there is clearly fermentation going on and now that I'm not trying to constantly wipe out my microbiome that fermentation is not creating toxic effects. Funny how you guys just want to attack every word I say instead of acknowledge anything. That's okay, I don't need acknowledgment.

Peat seems to have a very messed up microbiome that needs be flushed and sterilized which I know how that goes, it sucks, you are limited in carb sources and plus when you wipe out your microbiome you are effecting the gut-brain axis and then have to treat all the other symptoms that go along with that. Not to even mention immune regulation.

 

[Inaut]

@sugarbabe i like your posts. People have their own opinions but when it comes to this corona stuff, I’m on your side

 

[InChristAlone]

From our guru himself. I should just use quotes from the scientists because ya'll don't want to debate scientists you want to attacks my views.

"One of the currents of medical thinking, from classical times through Paracelsus to homeopathy and naturopathy, has been a confidence in the capacity of the organism to heal itself. But "modern" medicine has arrogated to itself the "healing power," with terrible results, mitigated only by their occasional reluctant acceptance of fragments of sane organismic thinking, such as recognizing the importance of nutrition, or of keeping sewage out of the drinking water. Research into methods to support the organism's natural restorative powers has been ridiculed and suppressed.

We are immersed in the propaganda of modern medicine, and part of that propaganda involves the confabulation of a history of science that supports their practice and their ideology. The real history of science won't be found in science textbooks.

Mainstream medical treatments are based on some fundamentally absurd scientific ideas....

Formative processes are necessarily multidimensional, and that makes calculation and analysis very complex. To a great extent, the geneticists were motivated to study bacterial genes, rather than vertebrate embryos, by the principle that motivated the drunk to look for his car keys under the street lamp, even though that wasn't where he lost them, because the light made it easier to look there.

The effect of light supports efficient oxidative energy production, which supports the protective inhibitory processes, by increasing ATP and CO2, and decreases the inflammatory mediators that intensify stress.

If we keep our thoughts on the living substance, the pervasive ideologies lose their oppressive power."

From this very good article: Adaptive substance, creative regeneration: Mainstream science, repression, and creativity

Light therapy for sick patients. People want to argue the existence of terrifying new pathogenic viruses rather than focus on the LIVING being.

 

[Braveheart]

This forum so often is just a pissing match...disappointing and often want to dump it, but there are always a few pearls of wisdom to be found. I keep thinking one can tell about the "health" of members by the quality of their discourse...

 

[InChristAlone]

@sugarbabe i like your posts. People have their own opinions but when it comes to this corona stuff, I’m on your side

Thanks!

 

[Beastmode]

I don't think Ray sees viruses like most of the medical community does. Here's one of his quotes (talking about Janine Robert's book Fear of the invisible):

"I think the best approach to understanding viruses is to investigate recent research on microvesicles, “retrotransposons,” and incorporation of foreign (food) DNA into our cells, and to look at Bonghan Kim’s ideas. C.C. Lindegren’s book, Cold War in Biology, discusses some of the older ideas about horizontal transmission of DNA between very different types of organism. Bacteria can “engineer” their own genes (James A. Shapiro), and useful packets of new genetic material can be shared by unrelated types of bacteria. She’s right about viruses being produced as a result of stresses, including toxic chemicals."

I just emailed Ray on microvesicles and how it relates to the current "pandemic" of misinformation going around the world with the coronavirus.

 

[InChristAlone]

And as always, Haidut comes to save the day. Thanks for clearing out this question regarding irreversible "whatever".

For the virus, I feel that immunity is number 1, if you're healthy, you have a very good chance of.

That's what I've been saying, focus on the health of the patient, and what restores regenerative processes rather than focus on the microbe at hand. And it seems Ray would agree with me. Focus on the generative energy.

 

[RealNeat]

Mike says estrogen may be protective, also talk about early stage lung fibrosis... are they trying to eliminate androgenic men and the healthy women of earth?

 

[Amazoniac]

That's what I've been saying, focus on the health of the patient, and what restores regenerative processes rather than focus on the microbe at hand. And it seems Ray would agree with me. Focus on the generative energy.

You were questioned for not being ponderate, I don't know why you're constructing a heroic narrative out of this as if you were defending the truth while having to deal with narrow-minded people that are trapped in the past with outdated theories pushing them on others. But ok.

- Disruption Of Nerve Functioning Is A Necessary Factor In Progression Of Inflammatory Conditions

 

[InChristAlone]

You were questioned for not being ponderate, I don't know why you're constructing a heroic narrative out of this as if you were defending the truth while having to deal with narrow-minded people that are trapped in the past with outdated theories pushing them on others. But ok.

- Disruption Of Nerve Functioning Is A Necessary Factor In Progression Of Inflammatory Conditions

I'm not sure why you are constructing me as a hero. You wanted to argue that someone could be completely and utterly healthy... get invaded by a destructive pathogen, take an antimicrobial which wipes out the destructive pathogen and then they go on being utterly healthy again. I don't see any examples of this story, but if you want to believe that story that's completely your decision.

 

[Amazoniac]

I'm not sure why you are constructing me as a hero. You wanted to argue that someone could be completely and utterly healthy... get invaded by a destructive pathogen, take an antimicrobial which wipes out the destructive pathogen and then they go on being utterly healthy again. I don't see any examples of this story, but if you want to believe that story that's completely your decision.

Yeah, that must be why I had to repeat multiple times that grades exist.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah, that must be why I had to repeat multiple times that grades exist.

Yes you did state that sometimes the infection is preventing the organism from healing and that sometimes antimicrobials are necessary to tip the balance. And I would agree with that statement in someone with no other option. It can still be the terrain, or rather what set up the terrain!! As I've been discussing as far as the entirety of the microbiome. Which we don't really know everything about yet. Back in the day when someone needed to be admitted to the hospital they routinely gave an enema because they understood when the system is backed up you can have a lot of nasty effects. Everything needs to flow....

 

[schultz]

I will continue reading scientists who had a lot to offer the world, including Ray Peat, but I do not agree with his theories on creating sterility any longer.

I don't think Ray believes we should be sterile. He has mentioned a few times that a small amount of endotoxin leaking into the body is something that makes us stronger.

That's what I've been saying, focus on the health of the patient, and what restores regenerative processes rather than focus on the microbe at hand. And it seems Ray would agree with me. Focus on the generative energy.

I don't think anybody on the forum disagrees with this. I don't even think modern science disagrees with this.

 

[InChristAlone]

I don't think Ray believes we should be sterile. He has mentioned a few times that a small amount of endotoxin leaking into the body is something that makes us stronger.



I don't think anybody on the forum disagrees with this. I don't even think modern science disagrees with this.

Did you see Ray's paper I quoted? It's all about how mainstream science focuses on the wrong things. For sure if you walk in to any hospital in the US you will not be treated in regards to generative energy.