Could this be a copper issue?

StephanF

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On the other hand, copper is deficient in Alzheimer's...


I wondered whether it has to do with the valency of copper. Remember the story with Erin Brockovich about ground water contamination of chromium, a movie was made about the journalist that went after the chemical industry. It was the hexavalent chromium (Cr +6) that made it so toxic. Now I found an article about the toxicity of copper (II) (Cu+2)! So while there could be a deficiency in copper, at the same time the wrong type of copper can do harm!


Copper oxide and copper fluoride could both have +1 or +2 valency. So one has to find the right copper supplement where the valence is only +1 (Copper (I))!
 

valzim

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Hi valzim, interesting that you mentioned fluoride. Copper is a semi-precious metal, it does not tarnish as quickly as iron (rust). Its chemical bonds are probably not as strong, so the fluoride could be released in the body. I am not a chemist, so someone else may comment on this.

Regarding arthritis, try chlorine dioxide (MMS), back in 2012 when I visited my mom in Germany, I noticed that her caretaker had swollen finger knuckles, I asked her whether she had arthritis, and she said yes, and showed me that two of her fingers (pointing and middle) of her right hand were stiff. I asked her if she would like to try chlorine dioxide, I had my small bottles (travel kit) with me. She took 4 activated drops (4 from each bottle) each day and when we came back five days later I asked how she was doing. She put a big smile on her face, lifted her hands and made repeatedly fists with both hands! The stiffness and swelling was gone after only five days! Amazing. In 2013, my mom passed away and I kept in contact with the caretaker for two years. She still took the drops (they are available in Germany) and the arthritis did not return.

I think that arthritis comes from infected gums or teeth or root canal treated teeth, where anaerobic bacteria can live inside the millions of micron-sized channels in the dentin of the dead tooth, that then can enter the blood stream. I buy it from KV lab in Florida.
I'll look into it. Were those drops taken orally or applied topically?
 

StephanF

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That doesn't sound good. Reminds me of the Chlorine dioxide facebook groups where they urged people to keep taking it in high dosages despite them vomiting, bleeding and destroying their mucosal walls.
This all depends on the dosage. I have been taken chlorine dioxide during the plandemic, three activated drops in the morning and three in the evening. The only side-effect I noticed is loose stool, sometime like diarrhea, in the morning. I didn't get sick the past two years, not even a cold.

I also analyzed the EPA report on chlorine dioxide, at the large dose of 3 activated drops every hour for eight hours, with a total of 24 drops/day, the amount corresponded to 0.81% of the LD50 for an 80 kg person. Compare that to the toxicity of table salt, the RDA is 1.5g/day which comes to 0.63% of the LD50 for table salt. Of course, chlorine dioxide is not an essential mineral, it is a gas, and the wording of 'miracle mineral supplement' is very misleading, to say the least. The amount of chlorine dioxide with the 24 drops was even below the 'least amount for adverse effects' in the EPA report.

I posted about the reversal of arthritis with two stiff fingers in the caretaker of my mom in 2012 before. She took four activated drops and after five days, the stiffness and swelling was completely gone. Two years later, the arthritis did not come back and she still took it. Although there are many reports like this, chlorine dioxide is potentially dangerous. But as with anything else, to paraphrase Pracelsus, the dose makes the poison. People with no science background can easily misjudge the amount they think is harmless and that makes it so dangerous...
 

StephanF

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I'll look into it. Were those drops taken orally or applied topically?
They were taken orally. Start slowly with one activated drop and I would not take more then 3 activated drops twice a day. I took this amount for two years during the plandemic and didn't even catch a cold. If you experience loose stool or diarrhea, then dial it back. Jim Humble, who came up with the 'Miracle Mineral Supplement' or MMS (stupid naming), stated that it won't harm good gut bacteria but I am not convinced. So the smallest dose that does the trick is what should be taken. Maybe not even every day.
 
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I wondered whether it has to do with the valency of copper. Remember the story with Erin Brockovich about ground water contamination of chromium, a movie was made about the journalist that went after the chemical industry. It was the hexavalent chromium (Cr +6) that made it so toxic. Now I found an article about the toxicity of copper (II) (Cu+2)! So while there could be a deficiency in copper, at the same time the wrong type of copper can do harm!


Copper oxide and copper fluoride could both have +1 or +2 valency. So one has to find the right copper supplement where the valence is only +1 (Copper (I))!
I've read that the body is able to convert Cu2 to Cu1 but I can't find the source for that
 

valzim

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I have started to question everything from the government and medical community. After the Covid fiasco and then the vaccine issue, it seems they have an agenda and will lie and hide truth to achieve their goal, whatever it's just for profit or population control as some say. I don't care whether you are pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine, the fact is that the vaccines are causing serious injury and death. Worldwide. Currently, Israel, South Korea, and the UK, all very heavily vaccinated, are having big spikes in covid cases. But no government is covering the vaccine injury and death story. What are they covering up? So take everything with a grain of salt these days.

In regards to this paper on copper 1 vs copper 2 and Alzheimers. Here's a quote on the Sparks and Schreur study. "They found that those in the highest quintile of copper intake, who were there because they ingested daily supplement pills containing copper, if they also at a high fat diet, lost cognition at six times the rate of other groups. This is extraordinary! Ingesting a pill containing copper rapidly damages cognition, and many Americans, and others in developed countries, take these multimineral pills every day. This, too, will be further discussed in more detail."

So if you took a copper supplement AND had a high fat diet, you had cognitive issues. Did the people taking copper not on a high fat diet have any issues. How can they make the factual statement, This is extraordinary! Ingesting a pill containing copper rapidly damages cognition. At best, they seem to assume, at worst, they seem to have an agenda. And a typical American high fat diet is not coconut oil and avocado. It's seed oils and processed crap. How can you single out the copper and not the fat?

The epidemiology study links incidence of copper pipes in the US after world war 2, to an explosion of AD cases. Copper plumbing began to be used in the early 1900s, was curtailed by the two world wars, and then exploded after 1950, such that now, 80-90 % of US homes have copper plumbing (23). The timing of the AD epidemic is quite similar, with a few cases appearing in the early 1900s, and then exploding after 1950.

First correlation does not equal causation. What else was going on in the early 1900s. The late 1800s and early 1900s was a great time of chemical discovery. Arsenic based pesticides were developed and used liberally, not knowing the damage this causes to humans. So that might answer the early 1900 AD cases, but what about after world war 2.
1. After 1945, agricultural and commercial usage of DDT became widespread in the U.S. The early popularity of DDT, a member of the chlorinated hydrocarbon group, was due to its reasonable cost, effectiveness, persistence, and versatility. During the 30 years prior to its cancellation, a total of approximately 1,350,000,000 pounds of DDT was used domestically. DDT Regulatory History: A Brief Survey (to 1975) | About EPA | US EPA

2. Since 1945, hundreds of cities have started community water fluoridation and in 2016, nearly 73% of the United States served by community water systems had access to fluoridated water.

The study chooses to focus on copper pipes but makes no other mention of fluoride or any other toxic chemicals they were using at the turn of the century and after WW2.

Now, I'm not saying that copper 2 is safe or it's not safe but it's really a shame that in this time of information age, we cannot find straight answers.


Adding more. In the putting it all together section, we find this. " The original AD animal model that showed the effects of small amounts of copper in the drinking water was a cholesterol-fed rabbit model (8)" So they fed rabbits which eat only plants a cholesterol diet. Is there a control study where they gave copper to rabbits not being fed cholesterol. This is just like the heart hypothesis study where they determined cholesterol caused heart disease by feeding cholesterol to rabbits, which again, are omnivores. They do not east cholesterol in the wild. So to me, this entire paper is suspect.
 
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valzim

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More interesting.


Copper 2 has been used throughout history. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Aztecs, India and Persia. I searched to see if I could find information on copper miners to see if they died early or had cognitive problems. Current day mining with the use of machines might not tell us anything but early mining where the men were actually digging and breaking rocks might. I can find no info on that.

In my post right above, I meant rabbits are herbivores, not omnivores. Wouldn't let me edit that post though.
 
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„Copper supplements taken in a dose of 30-60 mg/day during 3 years caused severe liver cirrhosis necessitating orthotopic liver transplantation.“

Better be safe than sorry!
I’d personally keep it to max. 10mg a day. Just because it‘s good, more is not always better. Jason is taking extreme doses of other minerals aswell, which I disagree with too.
Did you experience higher estrogen in the beginning? I upped the dose to 3mg, and my libido shot up really high and I started carrying a lot more water.. indicating higher estrogen. Also some puffiness in the nipples and some anger. I’m confident it’s estrogen. At the same time, my balls are bigger and more full.

This stuff I doing something to my hormones, pretty strong effect. I feel like higher Test, estrogen, all of it. Boost in muscle glycogen, increase in workout duration and strength

I might take some preg or vit E

edit: ok maybe I'm a little worried - I'm going out of breath very quickly. I feel so winded so I might just stop the copper even if it had incredible benefits. Maybe it's the form of copper or idk.. any thoughts?
 
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update on my last post: preg made me shed a lot of water and i feel good again. holy **** I probably gained 3-4 lbs of water from the estrogen spike. four hours after preg I'm peeing so much and I can breathe fine again. now to see if this is just a beginning reaction or if copper long-term is gonna make me a bloated red angry mess.
 

youngsinatra

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update on my last post: preg made me shed a lot of water and i feel good again. holy **** I probably gained 3-4 lbs of water from the estrogen spike. four hours after preg I'm peeing so much and I can breathe fine again. now to see if this is just a beginning reaction or if copper long-term is gonna make me a bloated red angry mess.
what type of copper do you take?
 
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what type of copper do you take?
Gluconate. This just keeps getting even better haha….I think I’ve developed a stomach ulcer :(

My current plan now: take zero supplements and let the ulcer heal (any tips? probably gonna use cypro if it stays burning) I’ve never had one before.

If I get back on copper I’m gonna look into the topical route. This stuff stimulates my metabolism so much the last day or so. Very warm body and I probably had these negatives from not enough nutrition. A lesson learned overall. I don’t even think the copper caused this directly, it’s probably a combination of things on my part including nutrition

As much peat style eating and thiamine supplementation as I’ve done: nothing revved me up like copper did towards the end of this experiment. Seriously, this stuff is like slamming down the gas pedal for me.
 
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youngsinatra

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Copper gluconate is an inferior form of copper in my opinion.

In a study of 10mg/d it had no effect on copper related biomarkers.

 
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Copper gluconate is an inferior form of copper in my opinion.

In a study of 10mg/d it had no effect on copper related biomarkers.

I think you said you had success making your own copper, what form was that?
 

ironfist

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When I had serum copper test, on the results it showed low (end of normal).

It's odd for me, when I take zinc (or nicotinamide riboside) I get tendonitis. I had heard this is because zinc reduces copper; so copper is required for fixing tendons.

But I had my zinc serum tested at the same time and it was low end of normal, too.

I've heard copper is very dangerous to supplement with, too. Like it builds up in your body and really never goes away.

From what I've read, hair testing for copper (and all mineral levels) is inaccurate. There's a study where they send the same hair to myriad labs and they each get very different results.
 
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When I had serum copper test, on the results it showed low (end of normal).

It's odd for me, when I take zinc (or nicotinamide riboside) I get tendonitis. I had heard this is because zinc reduces copper; so copper is required for fixing tendons.

But I had my zinc serum tested at the same time and it was low end of normal, too.

I've heard copper is very dangerous to supplement with, too. Like it builds up in your body and really never goes away.

From what I've read, hair testing for copper (and all mineral levels) is inaccurate. There's a study where they send the same hair to myriad labs and they each get very different results.
Im not sure what Copper Gluconate did but I feel like it was the form that caused the negatives. Haven’t taken any in a few days and I ordered some Cu1. If the same thing happens I’ll give up on it
with use of vitamin C yes?
I ended up ordering some Cu1. Will try it out later next week.
 

ww3not4me

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Not that risky at all. Most copper supplements are 2mg.

You should look into copper defecnicy strokes, blood vessel integrity issues, aneurysm etc....

I think more people are low on copper than over dosing on it!
 

ww3not4me

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I thought copper to zinc ratio is ideal at something like 8:1 so if anything a lot of people might be too high on zinc!
 

ironfist

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There was a thread on longecity a while ago about copper and the consensus was that too much copper is bad, your body stores it and never gets rid of it, and you're supposed to take Cu1 or Cu2 (I forgot which). I don't remember if it was a vendor making those claims.
 

Ben.

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There was a thread on longecity a while ago about copper and the consensus was that too much copper is bad, your body stores it and never gets rid of it, and you're supposed to take Cu1 or Cu2 (I forgot which). I don't remember if it was a vendor making those claims.

consensus in nutrition and health/longevity? I dont think there is such a thing. Consensus means a certain amount of people agreed on something but that doesn't make it true.

To much of anything is bad.

Copper never gets excreted/used up? Body never gets rid of it? Would make copper deficiency a impossible thing. Sounds realy unlogical to me and we would all get copper toxic inevitably.
Cu1 and Cu2 is a claim from a researcher who sells his/their own Cu1 product. Doesnt mean it is wrong but it surely is not a thing of certainty. I guess as with many things that copper or any other supplementation/food intake is context dependent.
 

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