Could Pregnenolone be the reason why I feel bad on TRT? (estrogen antagonism?)

fasoracetam

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I've a lot of trouble dialing in my TRT protocol/dose. Now looking back I think Pregnenolone could be the reason for it.
I think most of my problems are related due to low E2, I have all the classic symptoms.
dry eyes/dry skin/no libido, fatigue, insomnia, paranoia, etc.

So I've read that pregnenolone and progesterone have a negative effect on estrogen, acting as an aromatase inhibitor (although in higher dosages) and as an estrogen antagonist.

Judging by how I feel, now it perfectly makes sense that 1-2 days after taking the progenenolone I start to feel like I'm not on trt anymore.

I stopped taking the Preg and wont take it anymore. How long until it clears the body? I heard its about a week?

Anyone else had problems with pregnenolone crashing Estradiol levels`?
 

dukesbobby777

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How much are you taking? I take 10mg per day (based on the fact I’m almost 40, and may be slightly lower in it), and notice none of the negative effects you have listed above. However, if I take more I do run into side effects.
 

fasoracetam

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I first used 10mg daily but didnt notice anything. Then I tried out 30-50mg and noticed a very nice alllopregnanolone effect. Thats why I wanted to try out 100mg caps (not daily)

And I guess that was when I ran into problems
 

5a-DHP

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Pregnenolone, nor progesterone, will crash serum estradiol in a man on TRT.
Also, despite what the TRT community will tell you: none of the symptoms you listed are caused by low estradiol.
That community is extrodindarly narrow minded with no real scope of system level biology, which in-turn leads to every single symptom or side effect being attributed to low or high E2. Doesn't work like that in reality.
Your side effects are likely from pregnenolone itself and/ or it's downstream metabolites.
 

fasoracetam

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pre-trt I had my E2 measured at <5, non-detectable. And I didnt take pregnenolone back then. Now I feel almost the same, so I know that its definitely low E2 by feel.
Its not the trt community telling me something.

I spent 6-8 months in a low T/even lower Low e2 state. I can directly put my finger onto it if its low e2

I know people dont believe me and ask for bloods as ultimate proof, but bloods only show whats flowing through the blood, not whats attached to the receptors
 

5a-DHP

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pre-trt I had my E2 measured at <5, non-detectable.
Serum estradiol is not a good measure of systemic estrogen status in men. The estrogens are paracrine hormones, meaning they're produced and used in their tissue of origin without ever entering serum. Accordingly, serum estradiol - especially in a man not on exogenous hormones - tells you absolutely nothing about the level in the tissue; if you have low testosterone, the odds you have elevated tissue estrogen are extrodindarly high.

Tissue-bound estrogen in aging

Serum estradiol is primarily a reflection of intratesticular aromatization, which will be low if testosterone production is low. Again, that isn't a reflection of that in the tissue, nor the systemic estrogen load.
 
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Hans

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I've a lot of trouble dialing in my TRT protocol/dose. Now looking back I think Pregnenolone could be the reason for it.
I think most of my problems are related due to low E2, I have all the classic symptoms.
dry eyes/dry skin/no libido, fatigue, insomnia, paranoia, etc.

So I've read that pregnenolone and progesterone have a negative effect on estrogen, acting as an aromatase inhibitor (although in higher dosages) and as an estrogen antagonist.

Judging by how I feel, now it perfectly makes sense that 1-2 days after taking the progenenolone I start to feel like I'm not on trt anymore.

I stopped taking the Preg and wont take it anymore. How long until it clears the body? I heard its about a week?

Anyone else had problems with pregnenolone crashing Estradiol levels`?
Why not stay at a dose that give you only benefits, such as 30mg?
Pregnenolone can convert to preg-S which is a GABA antagonist, and that can cause a lot of your issues.
 

fasoracetam

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First I want to get dialed in with my TRT. pregnenolone is a variable that messes a lot up for me right now.
When Im dialed in i maybe reintroduce it at like 10mg daily to test it out.

with 100mg, in a matter of a single day i went from euphoric, top of the world feeling on trt to my miserable old self
 

5a-DHP

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with 100mg, in a matter of a single day i went from euphoric, top of the world feeling on trt to my miserable old self
We're not discrediting your poor experience - but again, that doesn't mean it's mediated via 'crashed estrogen'.
Pregnenolone and its metabolites are not benign; they can cause the issues you mentioned, independent of any effect on estrogen.
 

fasoracetam

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maybe, but my symptoms all match low e2 symptoms, one by one. And in the past I had low T, which leads to low E2 and had the same symptoms as now, (minus panic attacks) and I didnt take pregnenolone back then.
estradiol may not have crashed, but is either low or unable to bind to receptors.

I used test gel in the past and had to stop for a few days. No pregnenolone taken before or after .Effects were mostly the same.
I had the same feeling for 6-8 months daily, I know it very well
 

5a-DHP

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maybe, but my symptoms all match low e2 symptoms,
Per my previous comments: they are not low E2 symptoms.
Your low serum estradiol pre-TRT does not reflect systemic estrogen status.
What the TRT community attributes to 'low E2' is not caused by low E2.
It's not E2.
 

fasoracetam

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then tell me what pregnenolone metabolite causes psychosis, rather than a deficiency in e2 which is noted in a lot of studies?
 

Hans

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then tell me what pregnenolone metabolite causes psychosis, rather than a deficiency in e2 which is noted in a lot of studies?
If T is low, then all the other metabolites are also low including the very important neurosteroids. Of all the many T metabolites out there, do you really think it's due to low E?
 

fasoracetam

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If T is low, then all the other metabolites are also low including the very important neurosteroids. Of all the many T metabolites out there, do you really think it's due to low E?
Yes cause everything leads to E2 in terms of symptoms and symptom relief. If low T caused a deficiency in neurosteroids then I wouldnt feel the same right now, cause I took a large dose of a neurosteroid precursor and have additional high T levels right now.

In the past I had supressed testosterone from SARMS (which leads to low e2 and low shbg) which was the exact same feeling. I doubt DHT plays any role as it doesnt regulate how the body holds water (dehydration) and I never heard of it being anti-psychotic like estradiol.

I know no one believes me but I lived in that state of hell for almost a year and experimented with a shitton of supps and meds and drugs. Its definitely not GABA-antagonism either, as with Low T, I tried taking benzos in high dose, (40mg diazepam without any tolerance) and the obsessive thoughts were still there. even though i was really heavy "benzo-drunk"

kratom, real opiates, benzos, nothing could relief my symptoms. ONLY trt did, in a matter of 4 days my life changed.

not even 700++ total test, maybe even up 1000 could relief my symptoms, so it wasnt T or DHT either. only thing left is estradiol.

Obsessive, paranoid thoughts, psychosis is all documented with low estradiol, and in my experience and according to medical literature it must be exactly that
 

fasoracetam

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no but I tried it in the past to battle these symptoms. I also used chamomile, valerian, theanine, magnesium (glycinate) zinc, kava, alcohol, anything GABAergic, but nothing worked
 

Hans

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Yes cause everything leads to E2 in terms of symptoms and symptom relief. If low T caused a deficiency in neurosteroids then I wouldnt feel the same right now, cause I took a large dose of a neurosteroid precursor and have additional high T levels right now.

In the past I had supressed testosterone from SARMS (which leads to low e2 and low shbg) which was the exact same feeling. I doubt DHT plays any role as it doesnt regulate how the body holds water (dehydration) and I never heard of it being anti-psychotic like estradiol.

I know no one believes me but I lived in that state of hell for almost a year and experimented with a shitton of supps and meds and drugs. Its definitely not GABA-antagonism either, as with Low T, I tried taking benzos in high dose, (40mg diazepam without any tolerance) and the obsessive thoughts were still there. even though i was really heavy "benzo-drunk"

kratom, real opiates, benzos, nothing could relief my symptoms. ONLY trt did, in a matter of 4 days my life changed.

not even 700++ total test, maybe even up 1000 could relief my symptoms, so it wasnt T or DHT either. only thing left is estradiol.

Obsessive, paranoid thoughts, psychosis is all documented with low estradiol, and in my experience and according to medical literature it must be exactly that
"Pregnenolone and dehydroepiandrosterone levels were higher in subjects with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder compared to control subjects in both posterior cingulate and parietal cortex. Allopregnanolone levels tended to be decreased in parietal cortex in subjects with schizophrenia compared to control subjects"

Without tests it's just a lot of speculation.
 

Hans

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no but I tried it in the past to battle these symptoms. I also used chamomile, valerian, theanine, magnesium (glycinate) zinc, kava, alcohol, anything GABAergic, but nothing worked
Preg-S and DHEA-S are NMDA agonists which in high doses can also cause overexcitation of the brain if it's not being converted to prog or andro.
 

fasoracetam

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these are all things that can also play a part in this, but it doesnt answer why testosterone (plus its aromatization) reliefed these symptoms for me when I was low T.
Back then I have never heard of pregnenolone
like you said before, preg-s' gaba antagonism could adds to the anxiety, but idk I cant prove it to anyone, but the feeling of Low E2 is very easy to idenitify for me.

When I have high e2 symptoms (flushed oily skin, itchy chest, strong serotonergic feeling, complete abscence of anhedonia, even euphoria, high libido) all of my problems are gone. while not an ideal state, its the completete opposite of how I feel now and def way better.

If I had Estradiol creme or such i would bathe in it right now
 
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