Could Other 5ar Inhibitors Cause PFS?

[KnowledgeSeeker]

I had used flax lignans for ca. 6 months. It's a "natural" 5ar inhibitor. Back then I didn't know that and kept using the topical that included it. Hence I wonder if they might have altered my brain or my erectile function (that got worse) as you can see on Post Finasteride Syndrome victims.

 

[Sobieski]

Maybe synthetic 5ar inhibitors yes, but I do not think that you have caused any damage with your previous regimen.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Maybe synthetic 5ar inhibitors yes, but I do not think that you have caused any damage with your previous regimen.

Why does the body react differently to synthetic 5ar inhibitors?

 

[Sobieski]

Why does the body react differently to synthetic 5ar inhibitors?

Synthetic 5ar inhibitors seem to have the capacity to cause permanent down regulation of the receptors whereas natural ones allow the body to return to normal over time. Compare the results of a synthetic progestin such as Finasteride in relation to bio-identical progesterone, they are both chemically similar, they both on paper inhibit 5ar conversion of androgens. Finasteride has messed people up from one dose, there are men out there that have taken large doses of natural progesterone of long periods of time, who have reversed feminisation in a short period of time just from stopping and allowing their bodies to revert back to homeostasis. I don't know the bio-chemical reasons I'm just basing this on what I know based on research.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Synthetic 5ar inhibitors seem to have the capacity to cause permanent down regulation of the receptors whereas natural ones allow the body to return to normal over time. Compare the results of a synthetic progestin such as Finasteride in relation to bio-identical progesterone, they are both chemically similar, they both on paper inhibit 5ar conversion of androgens. Finasteride has messed people up from one dose, there are men out there that have taken large doses of natural progesterone of long periods of time, who have reversed feminisation in a short period of time just from stopping and allowing their bodies to revert back to homeostasis. I don't know the bio-chemical reasons I'm just basing this on what I know based on research.

Hmm okay thank you.

Other answers are still welcome.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

A study related to this topic:

Lignans interfering with 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone binding to human sex hormone-binding globulin.

Schottner M, Spiteller G, Gansser D. Lehrstuhl fur organische Chemie, Universitat Bayreuth, Germany.

J Nat Prod 1998 Jan;61(1):119-21

The natural lignans (-)-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran (1), (-)-matairesinol (2), (-)-secoisolariciresinol (3), (+/-)-enterolactone (4), (+/-)-enterodiol (5), and nordihydroguaiaretic acid (NDGA) (6) reduce the binding of 3H-labeled 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) to human sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). (-)-3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran (1) has the highest binding affinity (Ka = 3.2 +/- 1.7 x 10(6)M-1) of all lignans investigated so far; the reversibility of its binding and a double reciprocal plot suggest a competitive inhibition of the SHBG-DHT interaction. Increasing hydrophobity in the aliphatic part of the lignans (butane-1,4-diol-butanolide-tetrahydrofuran structures) leads to higher binding affinity. In the aromatic part, a 3-methoxy-4-hydroxy substitution pattern is most effective for binding to SHBG.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Push

 

[Andman]

ive seen saw palmetto mentioned a few times

 

[mayweatherking]

ive seen saw palmetto mentioned a few times

i was going to say this one... many people took it as well and saw similar effects. also accutane was another one.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

i was going to say this one... many people took it as well and saw similar effects. also accutane was another one.

So what is thought to be the reason of PFS?

Is it the bare 5ar-reductase reduction? If so, I bet anyone swallowed some 5ar-reductase inhibitor at some point of his life. Heck, even MK7 inhibits 5ar-reductase.

 

[Andman]

no one really knows for sure
nasty, nasty condition though.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

So any ingredient that inhibits 5ar-reductase can cause sudden PFS?

 

[Andman]

the ones ive seen mentioned are fin, deca (seems like all progestins can be dangerous), saw palmetto, ssris (PSSD)

 

[Cydanic]

Fenugreek has had the same effect on people as well, albeit less severe cases.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Any kind of molecule that affects DHT in a bad way should be banned.

 

[mayweatherking]

So what is thought to be the reason of PFS?

Is it the bare 5ar-reductase reduction? If so, I bet anyone swallowed some 5ar-reductase inhibitor at some point of his life. Heck, even MK7 inhibits 5ar-reductase.

i dont know dude tbh. i dont think regular 5ar inhibitors are that bad though, like that one you said (mk7 is vit K isnt it?), or coconut oil also inhibits it. but propecia is very similar to progesterone. maybe it boosted the metabolism a lot, and then when you came off, it was like you were taking thyroid and then got off it and "crashed". since it increases progesterone, maybe it is making you excrete certain hormones or minerals faster, like making potassium is leaking out faster when you have it, or maybe the increased progesterone is making you hold onto salt way easier. maybe the increased progesterone isn't converting downstream like it should. maybe it causes you to be more dopamine sensitive since it is so high in a weird phramacetical progesterone. maybe when you were on it, you boosted dopamine 10x higher than you normally should, then you looekd at porn while on propecia, it was like being on a pro dopamine drug, then you got off and your dopamine censors got blown out and porn doesnt work anymore or anything really, but maybe you are just over stimulated. maybe you blew out your muscles and developed a pelvic floor dysfunction from being overblown on high progesterone.

these are some things i have been thinking about lately. overall you are probably not that bad tho. id say just lay off porn, masturbation, for like 3 months and then see where you are at. and do all the peating stuff at the same time and watch ur bloodwork. if your libido is messed up, then masturbating, although i understand "everyone does it" increases stress 10 fold, so it probably isn't doing anytthing pro active, moreso probably hurting you.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

i dont know dude tbh. i dont think regular 5ar inhibitors are that bad though, like that one you said (mk7 is vit K isnt it?), or coconut oil also inhibits it. but propecia is very similar to progesterone. maybe it boosted the metabolism a lot, and then when you came off, it was like you were taking thyroid and then got off it and "crashed". since it increases progesterone, maybe it is making you excrete certain hormones or minerals faster, like making potassium is leaking out faster when you have it, or maybe the increased progesterone is making you hold onto salt way easier. maybe the increased progesterone isn't converting downstream like it should. maybe it causes you to be more dopamine sensitive since it is so high in a weird phramacetical progesterone. maybe when you were on it, you boosted dopamine 10x higher than you normally should, then you looekd at porn while on propecia, it was like being on a pro dopamine drug, then you got off and your dopamine censors got blown out and porn doesnt work anymore or anything really, but maybe you are just over stimulated. maybe you blew out your muscles and developed a pelvic floor dysfunction from being overblown on high progesterone.

these are some things i have been thinking about lately. overall you are probably not that bad tho. id say just lay off porn, masturbation, for like 3 months and then see where you are at. and do all the peating stuff at the same time and watch ur bloodwork. if your libido is messed up, then masturbating, although i understand "everyone does it" increases stress 10 fold, so it probably isn't doing anytthing pro active, moreso probably hurting you.

I thank you a lot for your care, answer and advise. I will follow it and report back.

Also, I've really enjoyed to hear your hypotheses about this topic. There might be some truth in some of them.

 

[mayweatherking]

I thank you a lot for your care, answer and advise. I will follow it and report back.

Also, I've really enjoyed to hear your hypotheses about this topic. There might be some truth in some of them.

cool dude. yeah man maybe.. i really don't know anymore. i have tried damn near everything at this point, i have decided that to solve it i really need to think outside the box to try to figure it out. although a lot of the stuff is controversial, like pelvic floor muscles being off, or porn/masturbation directly causing it, or even being in some kind of stressed state, it all sounds like bro science, but the regular science doesn't really help and i don't have any more time to waste so im going for that stuff now lol

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Push push push.

Other thoughts welcome.

 

[bk_]

Answer is yes, natural 5ar inhibitors can have the exact side effect as synthetic ones. I had a friend commit suicide after years of battling PFS after taking Saw Palmetto.