Cortisol Losing Muscle Gaining Fat

Efesto

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Hi all, I am facing a strange situation and I am looking for some guidance. I've seen a lot of doctors and no result until now.

I am 35 and always did sports. Last February I took a weak oral aas and gained some weight.Major mistake I know! Gained 5 kgs from 95 to 100 kgs

Two months later i got gyno ( no gland only fat). Went to the doctor and he gave me tamoxifen after some labs. On those labs I had a urine cortisol of 400 ( Max 60).
I've tested ten times since then and cortisol is always over 400 sometimes 600. Salivary and blood cortisol are ok.
Cushing has been discard. I lost 12 kgs since march and gained fat ( lost muscle mass). What a disastrous outcome!!!!
Doctors think that my urinary cortisol is not real , that is influenced by some supplement or that my urine is weird and labs are counting other stuff as cortisol. Others think it's real and I ve with adrenal stress.
I am trying to maintain the same diet and exercise but I am still loosing muscle and gaining fat.
I haven't got any solution from doctors and I don't have a explanation for this.
Having fat on my chest is very disturbing. I want to get rid of it but don't know how since I think I am in a constant catabolic state.
I love gym and running but I am afraid of loosing even more mass and becoming a skinny fat with.

Any idea or suggestions
 

Spokey

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Tamoxifen is awful. I wouldn't take that. It's supposedly an anti estrogen drug, but it has widely estrogenic effects itself.
Aspirin, mushrooms, orange peels (marmalade) and carrot salads might be helpful with the estrogen, and L-theanine might be good for cortisol.
 
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Efesto

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I took for 3 months. My oestregen increase to 60 and testosterone to 600.
No efect on lipomasty. I drop it 3 weeks ago. Tomorrow labs to check where I am.

Are you aware of someone with urine cortisol larger than 600 (Max 60) without Cushing ?
Endocrinologists say the numbers are not real , functional and integrative doctors say I have adrenal stress ( stage before adrenal fatigue). This week I'll go to acupuncture.
I love running and I get mixed opinions about what to do...

I am taking zma and eat broculi


Thks for your answers
 
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Efesto

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Btw tamoxifen interfered with dexamethasone tests when I was testing for Cushing. I was a false positive which led me to successive exams . Doctor didn't understand how could I have high cortisol on urine and blood and normal salive cortisol and no Cushing traits and clear Mri on pituitary.
Well tamoxifen altered blood cortisol by cbg but still have no answer for urinary cortisol. I'll post a new thread with this question
 
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Efesto

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I have large urine cortisol ( larger than 400) but salive and blood are ok.
Each doctor has its opinion and I am confused. Majority says it's impossible I've those values, others that I have adrenal stress. Does anyone had urine high cortisol ( without Cushing)
Thks
 

BastiFuntasty

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Do you have any thyroid and hormone labs to share for our experts here?

First of all I would stop exercising for a while, I know I know it's hard for an ambitious sportsmen but you can see for yourself that it's not making any sense right now.

Take some rest and see if helps, if you eat clean you shouldn't be afraid of too much weight gain. Better a little more bodyfat for a while than a fully disturbed health.
 
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Efesto

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Last tiroid was ok. But I'll check it tomorrow.

I just can't leave gym. It's my only hobby. At least I've shorten my trainings.
45 mins today and a jog of 45 two hours ago.
My integrative doctor says I am with adrenal stress due to too much exercise too much stress from work , too much suplementation.
Endocronologists say I a perfect healthy.
Besides that I've fat liver (surely from aas and tamoxifen).
But I want to get ride of my chest fat so I must try to loose fat (not muscle).

I've done a lot of labs. Last one was influenced by tamoxifen. I did some last week where i ll do a fast one tomorrow (I'll receive the results faster if I ask only 5 or 6 basic indicators : blood cortisol test oestregen lh tsh t3 t4 )

Las time everything was good except urine cortisol and high oestregen.
I have osteopenia
 
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Efesto

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Btw ... I've got fatty liver ... Could this be the reason for muscle wasting or is it a consequence of high cortisol ?
 

Spokey

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Tamoxifen

"Tamoxifen therapy has also been linked to the development of fatty liver and steatohepatitis. In some prospective studies, up to one third of women have developed fatty liver during long term tamoxifen therapy, as shown by routine imaging using computerized tomography. Fatty liver usually becomes demonstrable within 1 to 2 years of starting tamoxifen"

And I'd get a lot of rest if I had cortisol problems like that.

 
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Efesto

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I stopped supplementing with whey protein (from a well know brand) ... And guess what... After two weeks urinary cortisol come back to normal.
I stopped tamoxifen aswell and transminases are ok now.
Weird !!!!
whey protein is anticatabolic and made me high urinary cortisol values ( I dunno if they were real or the lab was counting as cortisol other stuff) ... But I've lost 10 kgs in 4 months .
Can't understand what's going on ....
 
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Efesto

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Btw my cortisol rythm is weird also.
9 am. 9
1 pm. 8
4 pm 4.5
11 pm 4
 

BastiFuntasty

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I stopped supplementing with whey protein (from a well know brand) ... And guess what... After two weeks urinary cortisol come back to normal.
I stopped tamoxifen aswell and transminases are ok now.
Weird !!!!
whey protein is anticatabolic and made me high urinary cortisol values ( I dunno if they were real or the lab was counting as cortisol other stuff) ... But I've lost 10 kgs in 4 months .
Can't understand what's going on ....
Could it be that you are very sensitive to tryptophan? Whey protein has so much of it and here in peatopia we consider it to be harmful. Maybe than serotonin antagonists are possible something to consider for you.
But on the other hand when you are fine now, I would just go on normally without any drugs or supps and see how you do.
 

tara

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I am trying to maintain the same diet and exercise but I am still loosing muscle and gaining fat.
Want to spell out what your diet and exercise habits have been like? Chronically excessive exercise (relative to your resources) is one possible way to get chronically high cortisol.

Last tiroid was ok.
Numbers are more meaningful than drs interpretation that they are OK.

Endocronologists say I a perfect healthy.
Maybe discount this as just a way of saying meaning 'I don't know what's wrong'.
 
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Efesto

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T4 5.5 (4.5 - 12)
Tsh 1.47 ( 0.4-4)
Lh 5.1 (0.8-7.6)
Test 776
Cortisol morning 136 (54-287)
Estradiol 37 ( less than 52)

Healthy food: mainly meat, vegetables, oats, fruits, yogurts
Supps; oily fish

45 min weight training almost every day, 8 km 2 times a week
 

XPlus

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Your intense schedule and low carb diet could be contributing to the catabolism you're experiencing. Pushing too hard isn't necessarily the most efficient approach.
The high sports, fish oil and tryptophan (meat) isn't doing you any good.
You'd likely benefit from cycling more rest and sleep into your routine.
Feel more comfortable eating a lot more carbs and tryptophan-less protein.
Some aspirin to offset some inflammation.
I'd increase carb intake cautiously as it might turn into lactate under stress. Supplementing extra CO2 could help offset the lactate and improve your tolerance to sugar as you jump start your health.
Your TSH is slight bit high. You might benefit from a little bit of thyroid sup.
Need T3, too.
 
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tara

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Tsh 1.47 ( 0.4-4)
Probably a little high. Peat would probably say TSH under 1 would be better.

Healthy food: mainly meat, vegetables, oats, fruits, yogurts
Supps; oily fish
Have you begun reading or listening to Peat's articles (Ray Peat) or interviews (Audio Interviews, Audio Interview Transcripts) to get more of an idea about how he sees the effects of foods? I found his articles on fats and sugars eye-opening - could be a good place to start.
He tends to favour a good a mount of fresh ripe fruit and whatever kind of milk one can handle well.
There's an article on his site specifically on fish oil.

Got a rough estimate of total calories and total carbs/protein? He sees calcium as important too - wonder if yours is lowish.

Consider reducing the weight training to 2-3 times a week and see if that helps?
 
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Efesto

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Cortisol is fine , hormones are fine ... It seems ... I wander if I could get this chest fat I got in this process ...
I dunno if it was low test related or cortisol related.

It's so odd that my urinary cortisol get so high just by taking whey from a particular brand. It's so hard to believe. I even don't know if it was a lab musclasification or a real value...
When I tell this to friends they refuse to believe but to doctors it makes sense since gym supplements are not controlled by fda... But am I the only one that is susceptible to that particular whey brand ?
 

tara

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Cortisol is fine , hormones are fine
I'm with Xplus in suspecting that low carb/low calories and high exercise load are raising cortisol and lowering thyroid metabolism, in addition to whatever other inherited and other factors may be contributing.
 
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Efesto

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Hmmm... Not at all. 2 years ago I did a ketogenic diet and all went fine.
I did half marathons twice a month and never lost muscle and gained fat.
Something very weird happened this year ... Cortisol dropped when I stop whey
 

tara

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Hmmm... Not at all. 2 years ago I did a ketogenic diet and all went fine.
Lots of people seem to report getting apparently good results from low carb dieting for a time eg 6mths to 2 yrs, but eventually running into trouble. Or being able to do it once but not a second time. Can't remember who coined the phrase (I think Matt Stone quoted it - stuck in my mind) about a 'catecholamine holiday' the first time someone goes on a low carb or low calorie diet.
Want to spell out approximate average macro nutrition including calories? Have you run a typical day's diet through cronometer or similar to see what the micros look like (don't believe it's calorie recommendations - often too low for healthy metabolism)? Approx how much calcium on average? How much metabolism-blocking PUFAs have you been consuming over the last year or two?
 

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