Cortisol, Histamine, Liver: Having Trouble Putting It All Together

[Powderfinger]

Hi everyone. I'm 38 years old, male. I've been on this path (Peating to the best of my ability) since January. Last year, I was told by a couple "alternative" practitioners that I had low thyroid and a fatty liver, and my search led me to "Hypothyroid Revolution" and finally, Peat.

I began eating more fruit (mainly cantaloupe, apples, honeydew, and pears), apple juice and tart cherry juice. I also eat potatoes as I feel off/spacey/wired if I don't eat some starch. I can't tolerate orange juice, gelatin, or milk. They all illicit a major histamine reaction that is rapidly becoming more and more unbearable. I've only had a few days of feeling better while "Peating". The rest of the time I seem to be battling endotoxins and histamine cycling (from baseline> histamine spike>vertigo>adrenaline spike> severe exhaustion> baseline>repeat). It's frustrating to say the least. So rather than continuing to guess, I thought it was time to reach out to the community for advice from more experienced health seekers.

I have gained over 20lbs since eating/drinking this way (and I was already 30+lbs overweight since adding starch back to my diet 3 years ago). My belly is bloated terribly. I have a history of low carbing for years, so I know my metabolism is messed up. I also have a history of taking high dose ibuprofen for bad knees (Osgood Schlatters) through middle and high school, as well as 4.5 years of daily tetracycline use for acne from HS through sophomore year college. By my senior year in college, I began having major fatigue and histamine reactions, which led to panic attacks and weakness. I'm wondering if these abuses kick-started my health problems...

Currently, I have zero libido or exercise tolerance and I'm lucky to sleep more than a few hours a night. My last cortisol saliva test showed very elevated cortisol across the board. Tested very low T as well (164) last year. I'm pretty sure my dopamine is screwed up as well because I feel disconnected and joyless in spite of objectively seeing many things in my life for which I should feel major joy (I have a great life - except for my health that I can't seem to get out of the toilet). I'm 5'11" and I weigh 216. My natural healthy weight is more around 165.

My current supplements are:
NDT (Forefront Health)
Pregnenolone (Forefront Health)
B Vits (Forefront Health)
Vit ADK (Forefront Health)
Calcium Carbonate
Caffeine (100mg/day)
Occasional Aspirin
Charcoal as needed
Theanine
Lysine

My bloated belly, rapid weight gain, and inability to go very long without eating leads me to think maybe I should work on my liver before continuing with the NDT and pregnenolone. I'm thinking of trying K2/Caffeine? Not sure what tweaks I can do with my diet that will help?

I do a carrot salad once a day although I'm not seeing any real benefit as yet. Occasional bamboo shoots. I tried mushrooms but they kicked off a histamine reaction, unfortunately.

Through Peating, I have experienced a few hours and days of feeling better than I've felt for 18+ years, which gives me hope that this is the right path. In this time frame, I've also been overwhelmed with feeling pretty terrible for perhaps not doing things in the right order? I feel like everything I've tried so far has backfired in one way or another. I could use some guidance. Thanks

 

[Orion]

Working on the liver has helped me the most.

What has helped for the last 6months;
very low PUFA (I am doing zero fat)
low starch to reduce endotoxin load
K2-1mg/day
Vitamin E - Tocovit - 100IU to 200IU per day
Vitamin Bs - Energin - 2 drops
Caffeine 200mg/day, starting at 50mg/day
Taurine 2g/day
Gelatin 4TBsp/day
+100gram dairy protein per day
Flowers of sulfur (one time dose, 5g/day for 3 days)
Adequate calories
Raw carrot daily
Charcoal weekly
Daily liver - small cube serving
Topical vitamin A - 2500 to 5000 IU daily
Fully hydrogenated coconut oil

Make sure mushrooms are boiled very well, 2-3hrs

Cyprohepdatine is another helpful supp for liver health, believe it can reduce fibrosis of the liver. I have experimented, but found that it would really knock me out the next day, almost unable to get of the couch... this symptom does subside after a day or two though. 0.5-1mg/day is the starting recommendation.

Previous to the 6months, I tried high dose aspirin, pregnenolone, T3/T4, high dose B3, high dose caffeine, methylene blue, etc... this would all contribute to glycogen storage depletion and would cause big stress reactions, insomnia, sweating, acne, basically blood sugar roller coaster ride. Starting low and slow with those supplements or avoiding until you can store more glycogen should be helpful.

Monitor your sleep, 6 to 8hrs deep uninterrupted sleep is the goal, restorative sleep takes lots of energy(stored glycogen in the liver and brain).

 

[Scenes]

Working on the liver has helped me the most.

What has helped for the last 6months;
very low PUFA (I am doing zero fat)
low starch to reduce endotoxin load
K2-1mg/day
Vitamin E - Tocovit - 100IU to 200IU per day
Vitamin Bs - Energin - 2 drops
Caffeine 200mg/day, starting at 50mg/day
Taurine 2g/day
Gelatin 4TBsp/day
+100gram dairy protein per day
Flowers of sulfur (one time dose, 5g/day for 3 days)
Adequate calories
Raw carrot daily
Charcoal weekly
Daily liver - small cube serving
Topical vitamin A - 2500 to 5000 IU daily
Fully hydrogenated coconut oil

Make sure mushrooms are boiled very well, 2-3hrs

Cyprohepdatine is another helpful supp for liver health, believe it can reduce fibrosis of the liver. I have experimented, but found that it would really knock me out the next day, almost unable to get of the couch... this symptom does subside after a day or two though. 0.5-1mg/day is the starting recommendation.

Previous to the 6months, I tried high dose aspirin, pregnenolone, T3/T4, high dose B3, high dose caffeine, methylene blue, etc... this would all contribute to glycogen storage depletion and would cause big stress reactions, insomnia, sweating, acne, basically blood sugar roller coaster ride. Starting low and slow with those supplements or avoiding until you can store more glycogen should be helpful.

Monitor your sleep, 6 to 8hrs deep uninterrupted sleep is the goal, restorative sleep takes lots of energy(stored glycogen in the liver and brain).

Very similar reaction to a couple of those supps myself, especially high dose (1g) niacinamide. Increased sweating, flushing of face, low blood sugar symptoms/feeling...

I also have trouble sleeping through the night, generally wake up once but take a while to fall back asleep.

Are we able to pin this down to a liver glycogen issue? If so, how much sugar do I need to consume and for how long do I need to be doing it? I feel like I'm already at least tripling my sugar intake on a peat diet...

 

[yurt]

Cyproheptadine works well for me to reduce bloating and histamine sensitivity; agree with orion re starting on a low 0.5 - 1mg daily dose -- more than this can make the sedative effects intolerable the next morning. I take mine as a single dose with dinner.

 

[Orion]

Are we able to pin this down to a liver glycogen issue? If so, how much sugar do I need to consume and for how long do I need to be doing it? I feel like I'm already at least tripling my sugar intake on a peat diet...

I do not think its about increasing sugar intake.

Working to reduce fatty liver and fibrosis of the liver will increase glycogen storage. Those supplements listed above should help.

 

[A.R]

Working on the liver has helped me the most.

What has helped for the last 6months;
very low PUFA (I am doing zero fat)
low starch to reduce endotoxin load
K2-1mg/day
Vitamin E - Tocovit - 100IU to 200IU per day
Vitamin Bs - Energin - 2 drops
Caffeine 200mg/day, starting at 50mg/day
Taurine 2g/day
Gelatin 4TBsp/day
+100gram dairy protein per day
Flowers of sulfur (one time dose, 5g/day for 3 days)
Adequate calories
Raw carrot daily
Charcoal weekly
Daily liver - small cube serving
Topical vitamin A - 2500 to 5000 IU daily
Fully hydrogenated coconut oil

Make sure mushrooms are boiled very well, 2-3hrs

Cyprohepdatine is another helpful supp for liver health, believe it can reduce fibrosis of the liver. I have experimented, but found that it would really knock me out the next day, almost unable to get of the couch... this symptom does subside after a day or two though. 0.5-1mg/day is the starting recommendation.

Previous to the 6months, I tried high dose aspirin, pregnenolone, T3/T4, high dose B3, high dose caffeine, methylene blue, etc... this would all contribute to glycogen storage depletion and would cause big stress reactions, insomnia, sweating, acne, basically blood sugar roller coaster ride. Starting low and slow with those supplements or avoiding until you can store more glycogen should be helpful.

Monitor your sleep, 6 to 8hrs deep uninterrupted sleep is the goal, restorative sleep takes lots of energy(stored glycogen in the liver and brain).

Could you please give a rough timetable of your day, how you manage to fit these supplements and food in to your daily life. Also what brand k2 are you taking?

Thank You

 

[raypeatclips]

@Orion Have you found much difference from such a small amount of Vit A topically?

 

[Milena]

I also found that cyproheptadine knocks out the histamine reaction - itchy scalp in my case. I take 1mg morning and evening with a break 1 or two days per week.

 

[A.R]

I also found that cyproheptadine knocks out the histamine reaction - itchy scalp in my case. I take 1mg morning and evening with a break 1 or two days per week.

Can you share your source for cyproheptadine please.

 

[Scenes]

I do not think its about increasing sugar intake.

Working to reduce fatty liver and fibrosis of the liver will increase glycogen storage. Those supplements listed above should help.

So you think any of those supps that cause issues are ultimately beneficial if we start low dose and work our way up, or can we use the negative reaction to it as a means of determining that's not the supplement we need??

Glycine in particular I've read a million positive things about, but when I take it I don't sleep as well, I get oily skin and my hair looks thinner at the front...am I to persist at low doses or do you say it's bad for me?

 

[Orion]

@Orion Have you found much difference from such a small amount of Vit A topically?

Took me awhile to realize that oral vitamin A supplements were causing headaches for me, similar to RP. I have tried massive doses and small doses both orally and topically.

I think being hypo from my PUFA storage, using smaller amounts topically has been beneficial for me, as my metabolism responds from PUFA depletion I might attempt to increase vitamin A. Too much when hypo would make me more hypo, lower pulse and temps, low blood sugar.

 

[Orion]

Could you please give a rough timetable of your day, how you manage to fit these supplements and food in to your daily life. Also what brand k2 are you taking?

Thank You

Staples are; skim milk, 0% fat cottage cheese, OJ/AJ, strained 0% greek yogurt, cooked/dried/ripe fruits, instant coffee, salt, MgCl (~2500 cals with ~150grams protein, less then 1gram PUFA)

I make coffee which goes into big thermos for the day: 5cups milk, 4 TBsp collagen, 2TBSP instant coffee(half decaf), lots of salt, MgCl flakes, 1/4cup sugar, drops of energin 1 cup every ~2hrs then 3 more cups at night (with less ingredients). 2l or 8cups milk for the day

Breakfast is usually yogurt, cottage cheese, mixed with cooked fruit(cherries, apple, peach, mango), melon, orange, honey, cinnamon sometimes.

I cook liver about once a month, cut into 1oz pieces and freeze, eat one cube every morning or second day.

Sometimes do a big batch of button mushroom and freeze them as well, to have a potion with raw carrot

Raw carrot mid afternoon, by itself.

Fat soluble vitamins are rubbed on feet in the morning. I have Haiduts, HealthNatura and Thones K2, I use them all.

Take 2g taurine with breakfast.

1-2 teaspoons fully hydrogenated coconut oil at bedtime.

The one time use of flowers of sulphur had big impact on my digestion, I really recommend it for intestinal issues.

 

[Orion]

So you think any of those supps that cause issues are ultimately beneficial if we start low dose and work our way up, or can we use the negative reaction to it as a means of determining that's not the supplement we need??

Glycine in particular I've read a million positive things about, but when I take it I don't sleep as well, I get oily skin and my hair looks thinner at the front...am I to persist at low doses or do you say it's bad for me?

I think the supps that are causing issues should probably be avoided until your liver health can handle them. You can heal the liver without any supps, and I think this can be done by doing the PUFA depletion approach. De-fatting the liver of PUFA is the goal, reducing fibrosis. Over time adding in small amounts of the supps that can help the liver should be tested/experimented with, and start to increase them when positive results come.

Search for Haiduts post on PUFA depletion, it can be done in 2 weeks, but the older you are, the longer it will take. Seems for me now at 6 months zero fat, health is really starting to rebound for me.

 

[A.R]

Staples are; skim milk, 0% fat cottage cheese, OJ/AJ, strained 0% greek yogurt, cookied/dried/ripe fruits, instant coffee, salt, MgCl (~2500 cals with ~150grams protein, less then 1gram PUFA)

I make coffee which goes into big thermos for the day: 5cups milk, 4 TBsp collagen, 2TBSP instant coffee(half decaf), lots of salt, MgCl flakes, 1/4cup sugar, drops of energin 1 cup every ~2hrs then 3 more cups at night (with less ingredients). 2l or 8cups milk for the day

Breakfast is usually yogurt, cottage cheese, mixed with cooked fruit(cherries, apple, peach, mango), melon, orange, honey, cinnamon sometimes.

I cook liver about once a month, cut into 1oz pieces and freeze, eat one cube every morning or second day.

Sometimes do a big batch of button mushroom and freeze them as well, to have a potion with raw carrot

Raw carrot mid afternoon, by itself.

Fat soluble vitamins are rubbed on feet in the morning. I have Haiduts, HealthNatura and Thones K2, I use them all.

Take 2g taurine with breakfast.

1-2 teaspoons fully hydrogenated coconut oil at bedtime.

The one time use of flowers of sulphur had big impact on my digestion, I really recommend it for intestinal issues.

Thank You

Hope you keep going well



On this particular food diet, do you get any food cravings which you have to resist?

 

[Orion]

Thank You

Hope you keep going well



On this particular food diet, do you get any food cravings which you have to resist?

I do eat lots of Haribo gummies, jello, and sometimes chocolate for snacks. But no cravings, I think this is due to adequate vitamin and mineral levels. My main issue was acne and its healing very nicely now. I plan to introduce some starch in the future, rice, potatoes and homemade bread. I do enjoy starches without lots of fat needed.

 

[Milena]

Can you share your source for cyproheptadine please.

I am in UK and it is OTC here rather than on prescription although no-one stocks it. Rather than risk the internet and have to pay postage, a local pharmacy offered to try and source it for me (as Periactin® by Auden McKensie). Boots suggested I buy at an online pharmacy.
£8 for 30 4mg tablets. two months worth for me. Took 2 days to arrived at the the shop.

 

[Milena]

Whodathunkit posted a study that reminded me about the need for choline & methionine to heal a particular type of damage to a fatty liver. I hope she won't mind me repeating it here (BTW no pun intended)
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.324.9877&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Abstract Methionine-choline-deficient (MCD) diets that
cause steatohepatitis in rodents are typically enriched in
polyunsaturated fat. To determine whether the fat composition
of the MCD formula influences the development of
liver disease, we manufactured custom MCD formulas with
fats ranging in PUFA content from 2% to 59% and tested
them for their ability to induce steatohepatitis. All modifiedfat
MCD formulas caused identical degrees of hepatic
steatosis and resulted in a similar distribution of fat within
individual hepatic lipid compartments. The fatty acid composition
of hepatic lipids, however, reflected the fat composition
of the diet. Mice fed a PUFA-rich MCD formula
showed extensive hepatic lipid peroxidation, induction of
proinflammatory genes, and histologic inflammation. When
PUFAs were substituted with more saturated fats, lipid peroxidation,
proinflammatory gene induction, and hepatic
inflammation all declined significantly. Despite the close
relationship between PUFAs and hepatic inflammation in
mice fed MCD formulas, dietary fat had no impact on
MCD-mediated damage to hepatocytes.

 

[raypeatclips]

@Orion You eat the frozen cooked liver straight out of the freezer or let it thaw?

 

[Orion]

@Orion You eat the frozen cooked liver straight out of the freezer or let it thaw?

Chopped it up frozen and swallow frozen, not a fan of the taste

 

[A.R]

I am in UK and it is OTC here rather than on prescription although no-one stocks it. Rather than risk the internet and have to pay postage, a local pharmacy offered to try and source it for me (as Periactin® by Auden McKensie). Boots suggested I buy at an online pharmacy.
£8 for 30 4mg tablets. two months worth for me. Took 2 days to arrived at the the shop.

Have you experienced the weight gain from it?