Coronavirus Infection May Cause Lasting Damage Throughout The Body, Doctors Fear

[alywest]

So logically you assume that a Vax is the solution these countries need... come on. That's how Gates uses logic. The body needs basic resources to thrive, don't provide these resources and the body is weak and able to succumb. It's not rocket science nor do Vax play the major role your are being told. Read the Changing Nature Of Childhood illness by Thomas Cowan. These childhood diseases protect from many chronic illnesses later in life, like cancer. You can't think 2 dimensionally.

Actually, it's true that vitamin A deficiency seems to be the reason that measles are so dangerous. But I do think two dimensionally. I seriously considered not vaccinating my kids but decided that I didn't really want them to have to suffer through all the disgusting viruses out there so I could prove a point that I could resolve it with nutrition. Many of these children were still hospitalized. And you are probably someone who would complain that the government puts vitamin a into our food supply because it's an inferior form, yet somehow it's allowing the majority of these children to escape virtually unharmed, except perhaps trauma from having to be hospitalized. I don't know if you have kids, and if so, if you've ever had to endure them being hospitalized for any reason. I truly hope not.

 

[RealNeat]

So logically you assume that a Vax is the solution these countries need... come on. That's how Gates uses logic. The body needs basic resources to thrive, don't provide these resources and the body is weak and able to succumb. It's not rocket science nor do Vax play the major role your are being told. Read the Changing Nature Of Childhood illness by Thomas Cowan. These childhood illnesses protect from many chronic disease later in life, like cancer. You can't think 2 dimensionally.

Actually, it's true that vitamin A deficiency seems to be the reason that measles are so dangerous. But I do think two dimensionally. I seriously considered not vaccinating my kids but decided that I didn't really want them to have to suffer through all the disgusting viruses out there so I could prove a point that I could resolve it with nutrition. Many of these children were still hospitalized. And you are probably someone who would complain that the government puts vitamin a into our food supply because it's an inferior form, yet somehow it's allowing the majority of these children to escape virtually unharmed, except perhaps trauma from having to be hospitalized. I don't know if you have kids, and if so, if you've ever had to endure them being hospitalized for any reason. I truly hope not.

That's the whole point we are having this discussion. To prevent severe illness, short term and long term. None of what you said changes what I said. Vitamin A in milk is not the solution, plenty of people drink enriched milk, still in horrible health. It's a holistic approach and it never will be otherwise. You can dodge one thing now but succumb to another thing later. Short cuts don't exist. Also mind linking me to the study that shows that fortified food with vitamin A is the sole reason for kids escaping unharmed? That was the logic in making GMO golden rice, which is beta-carotene, so not even real vitamin A, it also degrades at an immense rate, so it's pointless. Like I said, we either obey nature or we suffer, the current Vax paradigm is insane.

 

[alywest]

That's the whole point we are having this discussion. To prevent severe illness, short term and long term. None of what you said changes what I said. Vitamin A in milk is not the solution, plenty of people drink enriched milk, still in horrible health. It's a holistic approach and it never will be otherwise. You can dodge one thing now but succumb to another thing later. Short cuts don't exist. Also mind linking me to the study that shows that fortified food with vitamin A is the sole reason for kids escaping unharmed? That was the logic in making GMO golden rice, which is beta-carotene, so not even real vitamin A, it also degrades at an immense rate, so it's pointless. Like I said, we either obey nature or we suffer, the current Vax paradigm is insane.

Ok then how do you explain why thousands died of measles in other parts of the world than Europe and the US? Vitamin A deficiency is a risk factor for having long term damage or death from measles, and I can only suspect that eating food that isn't fortified results in lower stores of it. Regardless of your personal feelings about cheaper vitamins, they are still doing more than you realize if there were NO DEATHS from measles in 2018 in the US. And I'm certainly not saying everyone is in perfect health because of fortified processed foods, but apparently something is working to result in fewer deaths.

Why do you consider viruses nature? They aren't living organisms. What exactly are they? To me they represent something like bad code, as in a computer. It can really mess with your processes and systems unless you have safeguards in place to help you overcome them. So while it's nice to say everyone should be nourished adequately, most people on this planet are happy if they eat one meal a day, and that is with low-grade ingredients.

Everyone on this forum seems so certain that nature is so perfect, well how do you account for a boy from a native tribe in the Amazon dying of coronavirus? Certainly he's never been vaccinated or eaten any processed foods.

15-year-old boy from Amazon tribe dies of coronavirus

 

[sweetpeat]

how do you explain why thousands died of measles in other parts of the world than Europe and the US?

most people on this planet are happy if they eat one meal a day, and that is with low-grade ingredients.

I think you answered your own question, or at least a big part of it since it's a multi-factored issue. But people in Europe and the US are probably better fed than other parts of the world.
From the article you posted: "hunger during the quarantine also poses problem, forcing indigenous people to ask for donations of food and clean water."
Peat has said that governments push for vaccines because it's cheaper than spending money on food. I wonder how many of those vaccinated go on to die of starvation?

ETA: Or how many die from the vaccines? Those numbers are hard to find because the information is suppressed. There is a risk to being vaccinated. There is a risk to not be vaccinated. Which is the bigger risk? It can be hard to know with incomplete data.

 

[Remedy]

They don't. It's pure speculation. That's why they used the words "may" and "fear" in the headline.

More fear-mongering.

And yet it gets posted still. Without any indication of "what bullsh!t are they pushing now" skepticism. So, as a matter of course, it is seriously considered.

I can't wait until, oh, two days from now, when someone points out that this "new" scary effect is just a bog standard effect of any infection, flagrantly and sensationally highlighted without context.

 

[ecstatichamster]

vaccines other than smallpox do NOT confer lifetime immunity because they work on antibodies only. Cellular immunity is created from viruses that resemble the pathogenic agent, and these viruses infect cells which results in lysogeny, provirus production and total immunity forever. That is how most people get real lifetime immunity. Vaccines don't do that and manufacturers are incentivized to create these poor faux versions so they can repeatedly sell "boosters" and "annual" vaccines, immune from product liability in the USA.

 

[alywest]

I think you answered your own question, or at least a big part of it since it's a multi-factored issue. But people in Europe and the US are probably better fed than other parts of the world.
From the article you posted: "hunger during the quarantine also poses problem, forcing indigenous people to ask for donations of food and clean water."
Peat has said that governments push for vaccines because it's cheaper than spending money on food. I wonder how many of those vaccinated go on to die of starvation?

True, I totally agree that better nutrition for everyone would be ideal. But is it a reality? I mean, our government is frankly doing what it can to try to get people to get adequate nutrition. It's not the government's fault that so many Americans have decided that almond milk is a superior food than cow's milk. We've also (as a society) bought into the belief that canola oil is suitable for cooking, and is healthier than butter or coconut oil. If you go to the doctor and you have high cholesterol right now, they will send you home with a printout saying that you need to start using corn, vegetable or canola oil to improve your health. And a statin. That is the standard. We are complicit in the lies. We don't do our research (as a collective.) How is that the government's fault? I'm not saying you said that it was, but that seems to be the common thought on this forum, the gov't/doctors/big pharma are just plain evil and we are not possibly able to escape their lies unless we revolt. Well, if you guys are gonna revolt, you're going to need to provide people with solutions. Just saying "don't vaccinate" is not an answer. Vaccines, like them or not, have allowed us to pretty much not have to worry about horrible diseases like polio and certain types of meningitis. I wonder if there is one single parent who lost a child (or had them incapacitated) to any of those dreaded illnesses would say they wouldn't have vaccinated if given the chance.

vaccines other than smallpox do NOT confer lifetime immunity because they work on antibodies only. Cellular immunity is created from viruses that resemble the pathogenic agent, and these viruses infect cells which results in lysogeny, provirus production and total immunity forever. That is how most people get real lifetime immunity. Vaccines don't do that and manufacturers are incentivized to create these poor faux versions so they can repeatedly sell "boosters" and "annual" vaccines, immune from product liability in the USA.

So would it be good to get polio so that you are immune to it forever? Are you denying that there are many fewer deaths to illnesses like polio, mumps, measles, meningitis, etc. since vaccination became available?

 

[ecstatichamster]

True, I totally agree that better nutrition for everyone would be ideal. But is it a reality? I mean, our government is frankly doing what it can to try to get people to get adequate nutrition. It's not the government's fault that so many Americans have decided that almond milk is a superior food than cow's milk. We've also (as a society) bought into the belief that canola oil is suitable for cooking, and is healthier than butter or coconut oil. If you go to the doctor and you have high cholesterol right now, they will send you home with a printout saying that you need to start using corn, vegetable or canola oil to improve your health. And a statin. That is the standard. We are complicit in the lies. We don't do our research (as a collective.) How is that the government's fault? I'm not saying you said that it was, but that seems to be the common thought on this forum, the gov't/doctors/big pharma are just plain evil and we are not possibly able to escape their lies unless we revolt. Well, if you guys are gonna revolt, you're going to need to provide people with solutions. Just saying "don't vaccinate" is not an answer. Vaccines, like them or not, have allowed us to pretty much not have to worry about horrible diseases like polio and certain types of meningitis. I wonder if there is one single parent who lost a child (or had them incapacitated) to any of those dreaded illnesses would say they wouldn't have vaccinated if given the chance.



So would it be good to get polio so that you are immune to it forever? Are you denying that there are many fewer deaths to illnesses like polio, mumps, measles, meningitis, etc. since vaccination became available?

I don't know really. These diseases were plummeting in frequency already when the vaccines were introduced. I grew up when young kids got chicken pox, measles, mumps and german measles and everyone was pretty fine with it. Those who got it naturally have true lifetime immunity. The vaccines don't really work very well and have long term side effects that may make them very bad.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It's not the government's fault that so many Americans have decided that almond milk is a superior food than cow's milk. We've also (as a society) bought into the belief that canola oil is suitable for cooking, and is healthier than butter or coconut oil.

The USDA is a government agency, and absolutely helped to spread these ideas. It was part of the war on cholesterol and saturated fat for decades, and has only recently (and very quietly) reversed it's position on these ideas. The USDA has also increased subsidies for high PUFA crops exponentially in the past 15 years. Soybeans themselves get more than 50% of all food subsides in the US (I think it might actually be closer to 90%) Those subsidies are a huge reason why soybean oil is the most frequently used oil in America.

Government may not be the only interest in this shift, but it is absolutely a big factor.

 

[tankasnowgod]

If you go to the doctor and you have high cholesterol right now, they will send you home with a printout saying that you need to start using corn, vegetable or canola oil to improve your health. And a statin. That is the standard. We are complicit in the lies. We don't do our research (as a collective.) How is that the government's fault?

Because that "standard" comes directly from the FDA, which is government agency. The statin itself is "approved" for use by the FDA, and they can pull the approval, if they want. Doctors are also "licensed" from state medical boards. Don't kid yourself to thinking that nutrition and medicine are a free market, because they clearly aren't. The FDA, USDA, Dept of HHS, NIH, DEA, CDC, Medicare, Medicaid, these are all federal agencies (and there are likely many at your state level, as well).

I can agree that people should take a more active role in their health, but you seem to have a completely blind eye to government influence in medicine.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I don't know really. These diseases were plummeting in frequency already when the vaccines were introduced. I grew up when young kids got chicken pox, measles, mumps and german measles and everyone was pretty fine with it. Those who got it naturally have true lifetime immunity. The vaccines don't really work very well and have long term side effects that may make them very bad.

These charts are probably reasonably accurate. The CDC has a chart on their website that starts in 1954 and that shows a striking decrease in measles once the vaccine was kicking in, but the number of serious measles cases was quite low anyway, so they have some anecdotal quote from a Dr. Langmuir that there are probably "4 million cases per year, most of which are unreported".

May have been true.

But look at the mortality rates. And this is similar for all vaccine diseases I've seen -- the development of modern sanitation and nutrition pretty much put the kibosh on these diseases before vaccines were developed and deployed, generally.

 

[ecstatichamster]

this may or may not be accurate...

 

[alywest]

this may or may not be accurate...

That still seems like a lot to me...

 

[ecstatichamster]

That still seems like a lot to me...

the chart seems the same as one I saw on a government run site.

 

[alywest]

Because that "standard" comes directly from the FDA, which is government agency. The statin itself is "approved" for use by the FDA, and they can pull the approval, if they want. Doctors are also "licensed" from state medical boards. Don't kid yourself to thinking that nutrition and medicine are a free market, because they clearly aren't. The FDA, USDA, Dept of HHS, NIH, DEA, CDC, Medicare, Medicaid, these are all federal agencies (and there are likely many at your state level, as well).

I can agree that people should take a more active role in their health, but you seem to have a completely blind eye to government influence in medicine.

Yeah. Well something needs to be exposed, but I don't know how one goes about it. I think that someone could release a book with all the truth in the world and if no one believes it or cares, then what does it matter? The anti-vaxx movement which was predominantly in the area I live of the Pacific Northwest of the US resulted in public schools basically being closed to you if you don't vaccinate. A movement without a good plan is only going to backfire. Now King County won't allow students in school if they don't have vaccines. Before a random person might have been able to get away with it, and apparently they were. Because it was made into a movement, as soon as the measles numbers started upticking and hospitalizations occurred, the whole thing was shut down, and that was probably also due to the federal government becasue they are who fund our public schools. The state or county were basically forced to create this new rule so that the feds wouldn't cut them off from funding. What was the alternative? Shut down all the schools?

 

[alywest]

so what's the logical path here? Public schools are a socialized "right" here in the states. They are funded by the federal government. The federal government therefore gets to decide who and what they are going to fund. But where is their money coming from? The taxpayers. The student loan debt owners. So we grow up in the school system and are told to go to college where we accumulate debt and pay the government money for the rest of our working lives to ensure that we work until retirement age. Then they take the money we've given them so that we can obtain a degree and have "freedom" (to be a slave to debt) and they tell us how we have to live our lives and raise our children, down to what we need to inject into them. So really we are paying them with our blood, sweat and tears to force us to live in a protective bubble. In return, they create government agencies to provide even more protection by way of a military, FDA, DEA, FTC, etc. So who really has the most power here? What if the real way to revolt is for everyone to just stop paying their student loan debt for good

 

[Tristan Loscha]

True, I totally agree that better nutrition for everyone would be ideal. But is it a reality? I mean, our government is frankly doing what it can to try to get people to get adequate nutrition. It's not the government's fault that so many Americans have decided that almond milk is a superior food than cow's milk. We've also (as a society) bought into the belief that canola oil is suitable for cooking, and is healthier than butter or coconut oil. If you go to the doctor and you have high cholesterol right now, they will send you home with a printout saying that you need to start using corn, vegetable or canola oil to improve your health. And a statin. That is the standard. We are complicit in the lies. We don't do our research (as a collective.) How is that the government's fault? I'm not saying you said that it was, but that seems to be the common thought on this forum, the gov't/doctors/big pharma are just plain evil and we are not possibly able to escape their lies unless we revolt. Well, if you guys are gonna revolt, you're going to need to provide people with solutions. Just saying "don't vaccinate" is not an answer. Vaccines, like them or not, have allowed us to pretty much not have to worry about horrible diseases like polio and certain types of meningitis. I wonder if there is one single parent who lost a child (or had them incapacitated) to any of those dreaded illnesses would say they wouldn't have vaccinated if given the chance.



So would it be good to get polio so that you are immune to it forever? Are you denying that there are many fewer deaths to illnesses like polio, mumps, measles, meningitis, etc. since vaccination became available?

Im undecided on the matter of the role of vaccines,but to ask us to do the research instead of relying on high-paid doctors to do the research for our health is almost an insane notion.It is the duty to detect true causes of disease,a physician isnt allowed to falsify diagnoses to make it easy on him,we have a contract with him!

 

[alywest]

Im undecided on the matter of the role of vaccines,but to ask us to do the research instead of relying on high-paid doctors to do the research for our health is almost an insane notion.It is the duty to detect true causes of disease,a physician isnt allowed to falsify diagnoses to make it easy on him,we have a contract with him!

But if they force you to vaccinate your child at the risk of not having "free" education. Most of us can't afford private school

 

[Giraffe]

I thin this is in line with the fact that the Angiotensin-Receptor is exprimed by many organs and targets or it's due to the fact that CoV2 enters cells via RBC. In any case, there is a certain risk that an infection leaves your health impaired afterwards


Coronavirus infection may cause lasting damage throughout the body, doctors fear


For a world grappling with the new coronavirus, it’s becoming increasingly clear that even when the pandemic is over, it won’t really be over.

Now doctors are beginning to worry that for patients who have survived COVID-19, the same may be true.

For the sickest patients, infection with the new coronavirus is proving to be a full-body assault, causing damage well beyond the lungs. And even after patients who become severely ill have recovered and cleared the virus, physicians have begun seeing evidence of the infection’s lingering effects.

In a study posted this week, scientists in China examined the blood test results of 34 COVID-19 patients over the course of their hospitalization. In those who survived mild and severe disease alike, the researchers found that many of the biological measures had “failed to return to normal.”...........

When I wrote this post I had followed up the sources there back to the study that was mentioned, and I think it's the same cohort that is discussed here. In that study people with mild pneumonia were considered asymptomatic, mild symptoms meant "does not require hospitalization". Just to put things into perspective.

What do they mean by “had failed to return to normal" ? How do they determine what is the baseline for a certain patient? Things need to be not normal to begin with to make you vulnerable. Air pollution in Wuhan is very high, and covid-19 patients there had worse outcomes than anywhere else in Hubei or in China. A Chinese study discussed here found altered lipid levels in "primary infection cases" (= those who been to Wuhan recently) compared to "secondary cases" (those who have never been to Wuhan).

In case you get ill, you want to limit the degree of inflammation. Ray Peat mentioned vitamin D, losartartan and the antiserotonin things.

Ray Peat Interview - Ray Peat On The Coronavirus, Immunity, & Vaccines 2020-03-18

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I don’t see the reason to be so critical with doctors who in this situation are concerned that recovered Covid-19 affected may have longer lasting health burdens. They see some indications of that and it’s a known occurrence for some viral or other infections.
Excess mortality is rising and symptoms of the severe affected are no joke. I think it is appropriate to err on the side of caution as long as more details of the pathomechanisms are clear. I posted thr article because I share every opinion in it but to add to the debate. It’s absolutely ok to think such articles are Part of yet more scaremongering. I’m no longer so sure of that