Coronavirus: How Come Germans Have 40 Times Less Chances To Die Than Italians ?

[ecstatichamster]

virtually all deaths in Italy are people median age 80.5

Very few younger people died -- and virtually everyone who died had serious conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, and heart disease.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I've become a huge fan of Jon Rappoport in the past weeks, and one of his recent posts put the recent high death reporting in Italy into perspective- Italy Coronavirus: New explosive information « Jon Rappoport's Blog

me too!!!

 

[David PS]

Supposedly New York and Pennsylvania are already overburdened.

FYI, here is a link with a table showing a state-by-state breakdown of coronavirus cases in the US. PA is number 12 on the list and currently has only 302 active cases. NY has over 8,200 active cases. The numbers are updated multiple time each day.
United States Coronavirus: 18,839 Cases and 237 Deaths - Worldometer

 

[Giraffe]

Press conference with Lothar Wieler, head of Robert Koch Institute (German Centre for Infectious Disease Control) and also adviser to WHO:

Journalist: What counts as a corona death in Germany? If someone has other diseases is it counted as corona death?
Wieler: If a corona infection is confirmed it is counted as corona death.

@ 17:54

 

[md_a]

Investigating the Impact of Influenza on Excess Mortality in All Ages in Italy During Recent Seasons (2013/14-2016/17 Seasons)
Aldo Rosano et al. Int J Infect Dis. Nov 2019
Abstract


Objectives: In recent years, Italy has been registering peaks in death rates, particularly among the elderly during the winter season. Influenza epidemics have been indicated as one of the potential determinants of such an excess. The objective of our study was to estimate the influenza-attributable contribution to excess mortality during the influenza seasons from 2013/14 to 2016/17 in Italy.

Methods: We used the EuroMomo and the FluMomo methods to estimate the annual trend of influenza-attributable excess death rate by age group. Population data were provided by the National Institute of Statistics, data on influenza like illness and confirmed influenza cases were provided by the National Institutes of Health. As an indicator of weekly influenza activity (IA) we adopted the Goldstein index, which is the product of the percentage of patients seen with influenza-like illness (ILI) and percentage of influenza-positive specimens, in a given week.

Results: We estimated excess deaths of 7,027, 20,259, 15,801 and 24,981 attributable to influenza epidemics in the 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17, respectively, using the Goldstein index. The average annual mortality excess rate per 100,000 ranged from 11.6 to 41.2 with most of the influenza-associated deaths per year registered among the elderly. However children less than 5 years old also reported a relevant influenza attributable excess death rate in the 2014/15 and 2016/17 seasons (1.05/100,000 and 1.54/100,000 respectively).

Conclusions: Over 68,000 deaths were attributable to influenza epidemics in the study period. The observed excess of deaths is not completely unexpected, given the high number of fragile very old subjects living in Italy. In conclusion, the unpredictability of the influenza virus continues to present a major challenge to health professionals and policy makers. Nonetheless, vaccination remains the most effective means for reducing the burden of influenza, and efforts to increase vaccine coverage and the introduction of new vaccine strategies (such as vaccinating healthy children) should be considered to reduce the influenza attributable excess mortality experienced in Italy and in Europe in the last seasons.

Investigating the Impact of Influenza on Excess Mortality in All Ages in Italy During Recent Seasons (2013/14-2016/17 Seasons) - PubMed

 

[David90]

As for it being "too late...." I think there's a good chance this bug has already passed through the vast majority of the population in the US and most countries. I saw a video on social media (so take it with several grains of salt) on an emergency room nurse that said the same thing. She said "remember when everyone was sick, and had that lingering cough for about a month, even me? I think that was Corona." I had a similar sickness a month ago (which is unusual for me), just as she described. It's not like a virus would wait to show up in a country until there is a test that can detect it.

I had the Same. The Cough and a light runny Nose, which is almost gone...

@Hans has a new Article on his Website, describing also the Symtomps, because even his Wife was infected by the Virus....

 

[David90]

Just going from my experience, I think Germans don’t eat that many potatoes anymore. Much more wheat than that.

As a fellow German myself, i can +1 that. They are eaten mostly Wheat....

There are some Exceptions tho. I personally eat my Potatoes few Times per Week. Also here in Bavaria there are more Potato eaters.....

 

[rei]

Yesterday a VERY suspicious string of events happened. National media started talking about how we need to increase ICU capacity so that an epidemic will never surprise us again. The journalist asked the spokesperson of the health authority how many people are in ICU currently (underlying assumption 0 deaths) and got an answer "we cannot tell you that because of patient confidentiality" and everyone was like WTF is this kind of reasoning, is it out of control now when they don't want to tell.

This luckily caused a small hysteria and later in the day they were forced to answer. And it became clear why they did not want to answer. It would have destroyed the whole hysteria narrative before it even got started. There is a total of 5 cases nationwide.

By this time of flu season there is already hundreds of flu deaths. ZERO from this "pandemic". There has been a clear shift in government policy without any indication of shift in disease pattern. Something politically big is up.

 

[revenant]

Yesterday a VERY suspicious string of events happened. National media started talking about how we need to increase ICU capacity so that an epidemic will never surprise us again. The journalist asked the spokesperson of the health authority how many people are in ICU currently (underlying assumption 0 deaths) and got an answer "we cannot tell you that because of patient confidentiality" and everyone was like WTF is this kind of reasoning, is it out of control now when they don't want to tell.

This luckily caused a small hysteria and later in the day they were forced to answer. And it became clear why they did not want to answer. It would have destroyed the whole hysteria narrative before it even got started. There is a total of 5 cases nationwide.

By this time of flu season there is already hundreds of flu deaths. ZERO from this "pandemic". There has been a clear shift in government policy without any indication of shift in disease pattern. Something politically big is up.

Which country and can you provide a link?

 

[ilhanxx]

virtually all deaths in Italy are people median age 80.5

Very few younger people died -- and virtually everyone who died had serious conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, and heart disease.

+1
- average death age = 78,5
-average women death age = 82
-average men death age = 79
-between 0-30 = no death
-between 30-40 = 9
-between 40-50 = 27
-between 50-60 = 93
-between 60-70 = 329
-between 70-80 = 1134
-between 80 - 90 = 1309
-between 90 - + = 298

total number of death = 3200 (2252 men, 948 women)

first ilness data about 481 covid19 death

hypertension 355
diabetes 163
ischemic heart diseases 145
atrial fibrillation 106
chronic renal failure 97

second ilness data about 481 covid19 death

cancer 94
coah 66
dementia 57
stroke 54
chronic liver failure 18

symptoms of Covid-19 (3200 people)

%76 high temperature
%73 respiratory distress
cough %40
diarrhea %8
bloody sputum %1

full reports is here (in italy)

 

[ecstatichamster]

there is this myth that "50% of people admitted to hospital are young people" --> in New York city.

I wonder what the facts are?

Seems to me the entire narrative depends upon "relatively fit young people are getting sick and requiring hospitalization." I doubt it's true but hard to find data.

 

[David PS]

there is this myth that "50% of people admitted to hospital are young people" --> in New York city.

I wonder what the facts are?

Seems to me the entire narrative depends upon "relatively fit young people are getting sick and requiring hospitalization." I doubt it's true but hard to find data.

New C.D.C. data shows that nearly 40 percent of patients sick enough to be hospitalized were age 20 to 54. But the risk of dying was significantly higher in older people. [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-people.html"]Younger Adults Make Up Big Portion of Coronavirus Hospitalizations in U.S.
[/URL]

 

[tankasnowgod]

New C.D.C. data shows that nearly 40 percent of patients sick enough to be hospitalized were age 20 to 54. But the risk of dying was significantly higher in older people. Younger Adults Make Up Big Portion of Coronavirus Hospitalizations in U.S.

It's better to link to the actual report itself-

Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19

"As of March 16, a total of 4,226 COVID-19 cases had been reported in the United States, with reports increasing to 500 or more cases per day beginning March 14 (Figure 1). Among 2,449 patients with known age, 6% were aged ≥85, 25% were aged 65–84 years, 18% each were aged 55–64 years and 45–54 years, and 29% were aged 20–44 years (Figure 2). Only 5% of cases occurred in persons aged 0–19 years.

Among 508 (12%) patients known to have been hospitalized, 9% were aged ≥85 years, 36% were aged 65–84 years, 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, and 20% were aged 20–44 years. Less than 1% of hospitalizations were among persons aged ≤19 years (Figure 2). The percentage of persons hospitalized increased with age, from 2%–3% among persons aged ≤19 years, to ≥31% among adults aged ≥85 years. (Table).

Among 121 patients known to have been admitted to an ICU, 7% of cases were reported among adults ≥85 years, 46% among adults aged 65–84 years, 36% among adults aged 45–64 years, and 12% among adults aged 20–44 years (Figure 2). No ICU admissions were reported among persons aged ≤19 years. Percentages of ICU admissions were lowest among adults aged 20–44 years (2%–4%) and highest among adults aged 75–84 years (11%–31%) (Table).

Among 44 cases with known outcome, 15 (34%) deaths were reported among adults aged ≥85 years, 20 (46%) among adults aged 65–84 years, and nine (20%) among adults aged 20–64 years. Case-fatality percentages increased with increasing age, from no deaths reported among persons aged ≤19 years to highest percentages (10%–27%) among adults aged ≥85 years (Table) (Figure 2)."


So the claim that "New C.D.C. data shows that nearly 40 percent of patients sick enough to be hospitalized were age 20 to 54," means about 200 total people, 100 of whom are 20-44, and the other 100 45-54. Only about 12-13 of those 20-44 year olds are in ICU, and as for 45-54..... well, those ICU numbers are suddenly lumped in a category of 45-64 year olds, but would still max out at 45 people.

@ecstatichamster

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

What are you talking about ? Doctors and health care providers here are as dogmatic as anywhere, we just have universal access to it. Besides, mortality and total infections are similarly low in South Korea. The high number of deaths in northern Italy is a bit puzzling. A minor factor certainly seems to be that Italians there are very old, and their health care systems sucks. Still, I can't really make sense of the very high mortality (6% currently)

It's 8 already. Germany and South Korea still low.

 

[David PS]

I see that the US has just passed Germany and Iran in the total number of cases.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 298,262 Cases and 12,836 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

Currently, Germany has 77 deaths out of 21, 854 cases (2.84%) and Italy has 4, 825 deaths out of 53, 578 (11.1%). If my math if correct, it looks like Italy's death rate per case is 3.9 times as high as the rate in Germany.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I see that the US has just passed Germany and Iran in the total number of cases.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 298,262 Cases and 12,836 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

Currently, Germany has 77 deaths out of 21, 854 cases (2.84%) and Italy has 4, 825 deaths out of 53, 578 (11.1%). If my math if correct, it looks like Italy's death rate per case is 3.9 times as high as the rate in Germany.

It's about 40 times higher, but again, it isn't deaths caused by COVID 19, but people who died who tested positive for COVID 19. Even Bloomberg reported that over 99% of patients had underlying pathologies- Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

The "true" number of people who have died of COVID 19 may actually be 3, or some other single digit integer close to it.

 

[David PS]

It's about 40 times higher, but again, it isn't deaths caused by COVID 19, but people who died who tested positive for COVID 19. Even Bloomberg reported that over 99% of patients had underlying pathologies- Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

The "true" number of people who have died of COVID 19 may actually be 3, or some other single digit integer close to it.

Thanks, I am not trying to be confrontational. We will need to wait until the virus has passed in both Germany and Italy before we can confirm the 40 times higher number.

 

[ecstatichamster]

It's better to link to the actual report itself-

Severe Outcomes Among Patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19

"As of March 16, a total of 4,226 COVID-19 cases had been reported in the United States, with reports increasing to 500 or more cases per day beginning March 14 (Figure 1). Among 2,449 patients with known age, 6% were aged ≥85, 25% were aged 65–84 years, 18% each were aged 55–64 years and 45–54 years, and 29% were aged 20–44 years (Figure 2). Only 5% of cases occurred in persons aged 0–19 years.

Among 508 (12%) patients known to have been hospitalized, 9% were aged ≥85 years, 36% were aged 65–84 years, 17% were aged 55–64 years, 18% were 45–54 years, and 20% were aged 20–44 years. Less than 1% of hospitalizations were among persons aged ≤19 years (Figure 2). The percentage of persons hospitalized increased with age, from 2%–3% among persons aged ≤19 years, to ≥31% among adults aged ≥85 years. (Table).

Among 121 patients known to have been admitted to an ICU, 7% of cases were reported among adults ≥85 years, 46% among adults aged 65–84 years, 36% among adults aged 45–64 years, and 12% among adults aged 20–44 years (Figure 2). No ICU admissions were reported among persons aged ≤19 years. Percentages of ICU admissions were lowest among adults aged 20–44 years (2%–4%) and highest among adults aged 75–84 years (11%–31%) (Table).

Among 44 cases with known outcome, 15 (34%) deaths were reported among adults aged ≥85 years, 20 (46%) among adults aged 65–84 years, and nine (20%) among adults aged 20–64 years. Case-fatality percentages increased with increasing age, from no deaths reported among persons aged ≤19 years to highest percentages (10%–27%) among adults aged ≥85 years (Table) (Figure 2)."


So the claim that "New C.D.C. data shows that nearly 40 percent of patients sick enough to be hospitalized were age 20 to 54," means about 200 total people, 100 of whom are 20-44, and the other 100 45-54. Only about 12-13 of those 20-44 year olds are in ICU, and as for 45-54..... well, those ICU numbers are suddenly lumped in a category of 45-64 year olds, but would still max out at 45 people.

@ecstatichamster

exactly. I've been studying this report today. Very FEW cases are young people. This is such propaganda. There is truth in the report but it is misreported. Very corrupt.

 

[ecstatichamster]

My prediction is no overwhelming hospitals, no excessive deaths. And they will say it's because of the precautions they took. So they will be ready to do this again to us.

This will prove to be a bust if you look at the real numbers and not the B.S. headlines and propaganda.

 

[InChristAlone]

Trump said in the press conference today a vaccine would be a gift from heaven. Unbelievable what's going on.