Corona Virus How To Treat

[charlie]

Dr. Matt McCarthy - Author of "Superbugs" - Suggests Coronavirus Numbers from Korea Show Mortality Rate Closer to Flu Rather Than Something Worse (VIDEO)

Dr. Matt McCarthy: We are doing a lot of mathematical targeting. We are not using the Chinese data. We don’t find it reliable. We are using the Korean data. We think what would happen in Korea is going to be a lot more reflective of what we’re going to see in the United States. And we see about a .2 to .4 death rate.

Stuart Varney: .2 to .4 fatality rate due to coronavirus? What is it for ordinary, common variety flu?

Dr. Matt McCarthy: Well, common flu is .1% So what we’re saying here is that this would be like a very bad flu season. Well, some people say well that’s pretty reassuring? A flu season typically kills 29,000 to 69,000 people. So if we say double that, we’re talking about 50,000 Americans…

Stuart Varney: Older people greatly at risk?

Dr. Matt McCarthy: Yup. If you’re over 80 we’re seeing an incredibly high rate. We’re also seeing for people who have co-morbid conditions. Tony Fauci said at the press conference, obesity, heart disease, cancer, diabetes. That’s a pretty big swath of the American public.

 

[Inaut]

What’s really silly is that there will be a lot of people lining up for vaccines........ Some people just can’t be helped i guess

 

[Opioidus]

Dr. Matt McCarthy: Well, common flu is .1% So what we’re saying here is that this would be like a very bad flu season. Well, some people say well that’s pretty reassuring? A flu season typically kills 29,000 to 69,000 people. So if we say double that, we’re talking about 50,000 Americans…

Flu's R naught is one, for Coronavirus it's estimated to be 3 to 4.5, which means at least three to four times as many people that get the flu will get this. Also, it has a much longer incubation time and it remains infectious long after it's been "cured". Additionally, we don't know how long this disease will remain active within a population and there is no evidence that it will behave seasonally like the flu.

In some countries, the death rate has been closer to 5 or 6 percent. We see that in Iran where health care isn't as good and they can't provide care to all those who need it, which is about 20% of all the infected, with 5% needing intensive care. That will overwhelm any country if this becomes pandemic. That's when people really start dying. BTW for the flu that number is 1%, so we need to hospitalize twenty times more people than we do for regular flu.

Another scary but unconfirmed fact seems to be the high death rate of young, healthy, fit health care workers. Whether it's exhaustion, stress, overexposure or any combination of these things if my observation is confirmed by data in the coming weeks then we will face a staff absence crisis that will exacerbate the aforementioned problems.

A strong immune system won't help after you are infected since most victims die from a cytokine storm which is an overreaction of the immune system and is often treated, albeit not very effectively, by immunosuppressive medication.

So it's much more infectious than the flu, for a much longer period and is much more destructive. We don't know anything about its behavior and have no effective treatments against it.

PS.
Something else I'm not quite sure about but I believe the death rate for the flu in under 30 age group is 0.002%, for this disease however it's 0.02%, which makes it ten times deadlier for young people.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Another scary but unconfirmed fact seems to be the high death rate of young, healthy, fit health care workers.

Unconfirmed fact, eh? Kinda like the "unconfirmed fact" that getting bitten by a radioactive spider will turn you into Spiderman?

 

[Opioidus]

Unconfirmed fact, eh? Kinda like the "unconfirmed fact" that getting bitten by a radioactive spider will turn you into Spiderman?

Unconfirmed as of yet because no statistical data is available, but plenty of news stories on individual cases you can search for on Google using these terms:

Doctor dies of coronavirus
Nurse dies of coronavirus

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

What’s really silly is that there will be a lot of people lining up for vaccines........ Some people just can’t be helped i guess

I'm sure there will be. So much respect for authorities who do not care about them. Sad.

Unconfirmed fact, eh? Kinda like the "unconfirmed fact" that getting bitten by a radioactive spider will turn you into Spiderman?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Another scary but unconfirmed fact seems to be the high death rate of young, healthy, fit health care workers.

Unconfirmed as of yet because no statistical data is available

Hmmmm.... I know stats can often be manipulated, but manipulating data that doesn't even exit? That is next level, right there.

 

[Opioidus]

Hmmmm.... I know stats can often be manipulated, but manipulating data that doesn't even exit? That is next level, right there.

Serves me right replying to you, have a nice one buddy.

 

[RealNeat]

Flu's R naught is one, for Coronavirus it's estimated to be 3 to 4.5, which means at least three to four times as many people that get the flu will get this. Also, it has a much longer incubation time and it remains infectious long after it's been "cured". Additionally, we don't know how long this disease will remain active within a population and there is no evidence that it will behave seasonally like the flu.

In some countries, the death rate has been closer to 5 or 6 percent. We see that in Iran where health care isn't as good and they can't provide care to all those who need it, which is about 20% of all the infected, with 5% needing intensive care. That will overwhelm any country if this becomes pandemic. That's when people really start dying. BTW for the flu that number is 1%, so we need to hospitalize twenty times more people than we do for regular flu.

Another scary but unconfirmed fact seems to be the high death rate of young, healthy, fit health care workers. Whether it's exhaustion, stress, overexposure or any combination of these things if my observation is confirmed by data in the coming weeks then we will face a staff absence crisis that will exacerbate the aforementioned problems.

A strong immune system won't help after you are infected since most victims die from a cytokine storm which is an overreaction of the immune system and is often treated, albeit not very effectively, by immunosuppressive medication.

So it's much more infectious than the flu, for a much longer period and is much more destructive. We don't know anything about its behavior and have no effective treatments against it.

PS.
Something else I'm not quite sure about but I believe the death rate for the flu in under 30 age group is 0.002%, for this disease however it's 0.02%, which makes it ten times deadlier for young people.

I wouldn't categorize a cytokine storm as a healthy immune response from a healthy person. Ever read Ray Peats article "Vegetables etc.-Who defines food?" this is a similar situation which should be labeled, "Immune Response etc. - Who defines health?"

On a similar note I would not consider healthcare workers, even "young, healthy, fit" ones as such. Long periods of time in school, under artificial light, high EMF burden, partying, junk food (high PUFA) , stress of life plus school and constant interaction with illness. Then in their jobs which they most likely start soon after school they spend long, odd hours indoors without sun or proper air flow where antibiotic resistant bacteria are everywhere along with chemicals for cleaning and treating, the body fluids of ill people and the eagerness to get vaccinated.

I cringe when I hear people in the mainstream be labeled "healthy." Just because they are young or seemingly "fit."

 

[Opioidus]

I wouldn't categorize a cytokine storm as a healthy immune response from a healthy person. Ever read Ray Peats article "Vegetables etc.-Who defines food?" this is a similar situation which should be labeled, "Immune Response etc. - Who defines health?"

It certainly isn't healtht or it wouldn't result in death, but most people mistake a strong immune system with a guarantee for health, whereas we are learning both from this particular infection and others that it's far more complicated than having a strong immune system. Things like how rapidly the body detects the pathogen, in what way it responds to it, how much inflammation can your body take before it breaks down and so on are also important.

I have not read that article, but I believe the official medical way to determine the strengths of the immune system is by a T cell count test? At least that's how they monitor hiv patients.

 

[RealNeat]

It certainly isn't healtht or it wouldn't result in death, but most people mistake a strong immune system with a guarantee for health, whereas we are learning both from this particular infection and others that it's far more complicated than having a strong immune system. Things like how rapidly the body detects the pathogen, in what way it responds to it, how much inflammation can your body take before it breaks down and so on are also important.

I have not read that article, but I believe the official medical way to determine a healthy immune system is by a T cell count? That's how they monitor hiv patients.

I added to my comment up top. I view things as much more holistic than singular markers. The inflammatory response will be highly variable in many individuals according to their pre-existing inflammatory state, which is high in many Americans, imagine a gym addicted young person, almost always in an inflamed state. I have no evidence for this claim but considering everything else chronic inflammation gives rise to I cant imagine someone would fair well when a virus challenge is presented, especially if tissues are saturated with PUFA. A proper study would mention inflammation markers before a virus initiated further inflammation and survival rate accordingly. I haven't searched for such a paper, might exist. How familiar are you with Peats work?

Have you seen what happens to mice challenged with the wild strain virus after SARS vax? Ill give you a hint, death.

 

[Opioidus]

It certainly isn't healtht or it wouldn't result in death, but most people mistake a strong immune system with a guarantee for health, whereas we are learning both from this particular infection and others that it's far more complicated than having a strong immune system. Things like how rapidly the body detects the pathogen, in what way it responds to it, how much inflammation can your body take before it breaks down and so on are also important.

My point was that almost every dead, young person that we have heard of so far has been a health care worker. Now this is a fact. But this can be due to many diffeeent reasons, it could be selective reporting on the part of news agency becaue people care more about heroic health care workers who sacrifice their lives taking care of people, it could also be because of them being the larger part of young people who die.

If this turns out to be true, regardless of the why, whether it's stress, pre-existing inflammation, exhaustion, overexposure or anything else, if it turns out that doctors and nurses are dying at higher rates, they will stop showing up, not all of them, but say a, twenty percent drop in job attendance, that will further burden the system to an unprecedented level

 

[Opioidus]

I added to my comment up top. I view things as much more holistic than singular markers. The inflammatory response will be highly variable in many individuals according to their pre-existing inflammatory state, which is high in many Americans, imagine a gym addicted young person, almost always in an inflamed state. I have no evidence for this claim but considering everything else chronic inflammation gives rise to I cant imagine someone would fair well when a virus challenge is presented, especially if tissues are saturated with PUFA. A proper study would mention inflammation markers before a virus initiated further inflammation and survival rate accordingly. I haven't searched for such a paper, might exist. How familiar are you with Peats work?

Have you seen what happens to mice challenged with the wild strain virus after SARS vax? Ill give you a hint, death.

I agree with you to a certain degree. I am somewhat familiar with Peat's work, I agree with him on metabolism, estrogen and to some degree serotonin.

I highly doubt these deaths are due to pre existing pufa inflammation though.

 

[managing]

That was my first inclination; Quinine has shown some antiviral activity, and similar to chloroquine, it's a diprotic weak base, so could also interfere with viral entry. It also suppresses TNF (aspirin as well)

"Chloroquine is a weak base that increases the pH of acidic vesicles. When added extracellularly, the nonprotonated portion of chloroquine enters the cell, where it becomes protonated and concentrated in acidic, low-pH organelles, such as endosomes, Golgi vesicles, and lysosomes. Chloroquine can affect virus infection in many ways, and the antiviral effect depends in part on the extent to which the virus utilizes endosomes for entry. Besides having a direct antiviral effect, chloroquine is endowed with an immunomodulatory activity, suppressing the production and release of tumor necrosis factor alpha and interleukin 6, which mediate the inflammatory complications of several viral diseases"

 

[Godot]

The nice thing out of all this...the fact that millions of people all over the world are finally starting to think about healthier things to ingest in their bodies. There is always a positive to a negative....

 

[Opioidus]

Quercetin may prove beneficial in preventing and treating a host of different viruses and is being considered as a potential candidate to be invistigated for the treatment of the novel coronavirus. Since it's mostly safe at responsible doses(500mgs a day for up to a month), and apparently works best at the earlier stages of infection, we could start supplementing right away in places where the new virus is reported. Here's a bunch of studies oulining the antiviral activity of Quercetin :

A made-in-Canada solution to the coronavirus outbreak? - Macleans.ca

When an Ebola outbreak struck West Africa in 2014, the two scientists teamed up with the National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg to test quercetin’s effectiveness on mice infected with Ebola—and found it effective even when administered only minutes before infection. It still needs to undergo clinical trials.

The U.S.-based Food and Drug Administration has already approved quercetin as safe for human consumption, which means the researchers can skip testing on animals. If the treatment works, it’ll be readily available. Now Chrétien just needs the funding to start the trials. He estimates the teams need $5 million. But the payoff, he says, could be huge.


https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpregu.90319.2008

Inhibition of enterovirus 71 replication and viral 3C protease by quercetin

Quercetin as an Antiviral Agent Inhibits Influenza A Virus (IAV) Entry

Flavonoid-mediated inhibition of SARS coronavirus 3C-like protease expressed in Pichia pastoris. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[LLight]

I wouldn't categorize a cytokine storm as a healthy immune response from a healthy person. Ever read Ray Peats article "Vegetables etc.-Who defines food?" this is a similar situation which should be labeled, "Immune Response etc. - Who defines health?"

Why so stormy? What lies behind cytokine storm syndrome?

Why does the immune system overreact in cytokine storm syndrome? One clue came in a “really lovely paper” by Australian researchers in 2015, Cron said. They took normal natural killer cells and CD8 cytotoxic T-cells, along with version of these cells that were perforin deficient. Then “they did time-lapse photography at the cellular level” as these cells engaged with infected cells, Cron explained. The cells with perforin deficiencies “spent five times longer engaged” and released a flurry of cytokines, even though their lack of perforin made them incapable of destroying their target cell. One hypothesis is that these signals could spark the intense inflammatory response seen in cytokine storm syndrome.

Here’s a playbook for stopping deadly cytokine storm syndrome

Indeed, it could be immune deficiency, not a consequence of a "too strong immune system".

 

[md_a]

Iron chelation as a potential and beneficial adjuvant in antiviral therapy?

The role of iron in viral infections.
Schmidt SM1.
Author information

Abstract
Crucial cellular processes such as DNA synthesis and the generation of ATP require iron. Viruses depend on iron in order to efficiently replicate within living host cells. Some viruses selectively infect iron - acquiring cells or influence the cellular iron metabolism via Human hemochromatosis protein (HFE) or hepcidin. During infection with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), hepatitis B virus (HBV) or hepatitis C virus (HCV) iron overload is associated with poor prognosis for the patient and enhanced progression of the disease. Recent findings still lack to fully describe the viral interaction with the host iron metabolism during infection. This review summarizes the current knowledge of the viral regulation on the host cell iron metabolism in order to discuss the therapeutic option of iron chelation as a potential and beneficial adjuvant in
antiviral therapy.
The role of iron in viral infections. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[RealNeat]

Iron chelation as a potential and beneficial adjuvant in antiviral therapy?

The role of iron in viral infections.
Schmidt SM1.
Author information

Abstract
Crucial cellular processes such as DNA synthesis and the generation of ATP require iron. Viruses depend on iron in order to efficiently replicate within living host cells. Some viruses selectively infect iron - acquiring cells or influence the cellular iron metabolism via Human hemochromatosis protein (HFE) or hepcidin. During infection with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), hepatitis B virus (HBV) or hepatitis C virus (HCV) iron overload is associated with poor prognosis for the patient and enhanced progression of the disease. Recent findings still lack to fully describe the viral interaction with the host iron metabolism during infection. This review summarizes the current knowledge of the viral regulation on the host cell iron metabolism in order to discuss the therapeutic option of iron chelation as a potential and beneficial adjuvant in
antiviral therapy.
The role of iron in viral infections. - PubMed - NCBI

It seems from the article @LLight shared that Iron definitely has a role, as RP often mentions.

Cheap, simple test

A cheap, simple test, widely available at most hospitals in the United States and worldwide, can help diagnose cytokine storm syndrome, Cron said. “A protein called serum ferritin tends to get very high in this disorder,” he said. “If you are sick enough to be in a hospital and you have a fever, you should get a serum ferritin. It typically comes back in less than 24 hours and almost every hospital can do it, and if it’s high you can work them up for cytokine storm syndrome.”

At Cron’s urging, the ICU at Children’s Hospital recently added serum ferritin screens to its routine procedures. “The day after we did that we identified a patient and we’ve had three kids in the last couple of months that we’ve identified,” Cron said.

Cron hopes that “Cytokine Storm Syndrome” will help spread this life-saving knowledge more widely in the medical profession. “We have this thing in medicine called Occam’s Razor, which encourages us to gather the data and come up with one unifying diagnosis for what’s going on,” Cron said. “But this is the opposite — you can have juvenile arthritis, or lupus or T-cell leukemia, and then you have cytokine storm syndrome on top of that. And if you don’t treat the cytokine storm syndrome directly, patients can die.

“If we get to the point where people know about it and don’t have to call me to find out, that would be a success.”

Here’s a playbook for stopping deadly cytokine storm syndrome

The suggested "very safe" treatment (anti-inflammatory) is Anakinra. Anyone know about this drug?

 

[LucyL]

The suggested "very safe" treatment (anti-inflammatory) is Anakinra. Anyone know about this drug?

It was mentioned in this thread about Methylene Blue, seems it has some similar activity to MB.