Cordyceps Sinensis 5-Alpha-Reductase Assay Of Medicinal Mushrooms

[Experienced]

Wasn't 5-alpha-reductase a good thing because it increases DHT? Why would you want to lower it? The "DHT causes baldness and prostate cancer"-thing has been debunked numerous times

All the stuff in that analysis increases DHT that's what I know in my case.

 

[Vicecaz]

All the stuff in that analysis increases DHT that's what I know in my case.

From what I understand from the graph, cordyceps is the only mushroom increasing 5AR, while all of the user mushrooms present in the analysis decrease it

 

[Experienced]

From what I understand from the graph, cordyceps is the only mushroom increasing 5AR, while all of the user mushrooms present in the analysis decrease it

Water extracted are the only that are known as decrease in libido not in the alcohol extracted ones.

 

[Experienced]

From what I understand from the graph, cordyceps is the only mushroom increasing 5AR, while all of the user mushrooms present in the analysis decrease it

("Users of Lion's Mane hot water extracts occasionally report a negative effect on libido ; such an effect has never been reported for an alcohol extract.")

 

[Vicecaz]

Water extracted are the only that are known as decrease in libido not in the alcohol extracted ones.

Sorry, you lost me, are you talking about cordyceps mushroom extraction?
I'm not familiar with the subject of water/alcohol extraction

I just meant that from the graph from the OP, cordyceps seem to be the only one increasing 5AR, not sure if the method of extraction is specified

Edit: yeah, Lions mane has never been promoted as a libido enhancer, as opposed to cordyceps

 

[Experienced]

Sorry, you lost me, are you talking about cordyceps mushroom extraction?
I'm not familiar with the subject of water/alcohol extraction

I was talking about lion's mane yes.

 

[BRMarshall]

Water extracts of mushrooms, the whole mushroom, is both the traditional method of working with mushrooms
and apparently has proven to be the most potent approach as mas been measured.
...some of the products on the market are basically saw dust infused with mycilium, not a full fruited body...

 

[Experienced]

Water extracts of mushrooms, the whole mushroom, is both the traditional method of working with mushrooms
and apparently has proven to be the most potent approach as mas been measured.
...some of the products on the market are basically saw dust infused with mycilium, not a full fruited body...

Lion's Mane and its nootropic potential. What is the best supplement ? : MushroomSupplements

 

[akgrrrl]

Host Defense Mushrooms. By the globally recognized authority of Paul Stamets

 

[ecstatichamster]

I use these
https://www.amazon.com/Cordyceps-Extract-Capsules-NON-GMO-Sinensis/dp/B0779DY5V7

They work very well.

 

[Experienced]

Host Defense Mushrooms. By the globally recognized authority of Paul Stamets

People do not distinguish between 'mycelium' (read 'pure mycelium grown in liquid) and 'biomass' (the mixture of mycelium and the undigested grain/rice in which it was cultivated; also marketed as 'fermented'). That last one is mainly useless starch (> 60%). Stamets 's products are biomass-based and very poor, quality-wise.

The products he's selling are 60 - 70% useless starch (!) and only 30 - 40% mushroom material. He confirms this himself in one of his patents. Selling this stuff is a ripoff with the prices he's charging. On top of that, his products are not extracted and therefore have an unpredictable bioavailability.

He also does not guarantee a single active ingredient and refuses to share test reports, not even about the heavy metal content. More red flags !

As for the mycelium thing, the idea that fruiting body-based supplements are always preferable over mycelium-based supplements is a widespread misunderstanding on Reddit and completely wrong.

In several cases supplements based on pure, liquid-grown mycelium are preferable over fruiting body-based supplements.

• Lion's Mane mycelium contains erinacines, which are the most powerful NGF-inducers. These are not found in the fruiting body. See this thread for more info about this. If you want the best Lion's Mane you should get an alcohol extracted product containing pure mycelium. It should specify and guarantee the NGF-inducers (terpenes, erinacines)

• Cordyceps sinensis CS-4 supplements are always based on mycelium.

• Turkey Tail research has been using almost exclusively mycelium (the famous PSK and PSP are mycelium-based).

TL;DR :If there are decent specs on the label (guaranteed percentages of glucans, (tri)terpenes etc.) this whole discussion would be irrelevant immediately. But most vendors like to keep things vague or are ignorant. Biomass-based products will never specify anything because there nothing to brag about. Stamets knows but prefers to ignore the science.

Is Paul Stamet's product line a scam since it uses only mycelium? : MushroomSupplements

 

[akgrrrl]

People do not distinguish between 'mycelium' (read 'pure mycelium grown in liquid) and 'biomass' (the mixture of mycelium and the undigested grain/rice in which it was cultivated; also marketed as 'fermented'). That last one is mainly useless starch (> 60%). Stamets 's products are biomass-based and very poor, quality-wise.

The products he's selling are 60 - 70% useless starch (!) and only 30 - 40% mushroom material. He confirms this himself in one of his patents. Selling this stuff is a ripoff with the prices he's charging. On top of that, his products are not extracted and therefore have an unpredictable bioavailability.

He also does not guarantee a single active ingredient and refuses to share test reports, not even about the heavy metal content. More red flags !

As for the mycelium thing, the idea that fruiting body-based supplements are always preferable over mycelium-based supplements is a widespread misunderstanding on Reddit and completely wrong.

In several cases supplements based on pure, liquid-grown mycelium are preferable over fruiting body-based supplements.

• Lion's Mane mycelium contains erinacines, which are the most powerful NGF-inducers. These are not found in the fruiting body. See this thread for more info about this. If you want the best Lion's Mane you should get an alcohol extracted product containing pure mycelium. It should specify and guarantee the NGF-inducers (terpenes, erinacines)

• Cordyceps sinensis CS-4 supplements are always based on mycelium.

• Turkey Tail research has been using almost exclusively mycelium (the famous PSK and PSP are mycelium-based).

TL;DR :If there are decent specs on the label (guaranteed percentages of glucans, (tri)terpenes etc.) this whole discussion would be irrelevant immediately. But most vendors like to keep things vague or are ignorant. Biomass-based products will never specify anything because there nothing to brag about. Stamets knows but prefers to ignore the science.

Is Paul Stamet's product line a scam since it uses only mycelium? : MushroomSupplements

Wow, good sleuthing, thanks for that entailed response with good explains

 

[Experienced]

Wow, good sleuthing, thanks for that entailed response with good explains

You're welcome!

 

[akgrrrl]

You're welcome!

So are you going with the Amazon brand recommend by Ecstatichamster? I am interested in the beta glucans

 

[Experienced]

So are you going with the Amazon brand recommend by Ecstatichamster? I am interested in the beta glucans

I definitely do not recommend a brand who is afraid to show their Certificate of Analysis. I would 1000% go for Oriveda brand. Every mushroom on there is premium quality and worth the money they provide COA.

Oriveda Medicinal Mushrooms this one is cordyceps.

This one is lion's mane Oriveda Medicinal Mushrooms

I'm not affiliated with them nor do they even support affiliating people so I have no contact with them I'm not promoting them it's just my opinion .

 

[Experienced]

Reddit has various sub-reddits where mushrooms are also discussed from time to time. Lion’s Mane is mentioned a lot. That is most likely due to Lion’s Mane being able to induce NGF secretion. NGF = Nerve Growth Factor.

Wikipedia about NGF: Nerve growth factor - Wikipedia

I have collected the existing relevant information and copy/pasted that below with my remarks, doing my best to be objective.

So here it is: a brief outline of what Lion’s Mane is and what the best Lion's Mane supplement would look like. The information is all based on research papers.

Here are some highlights from examine.com about Lion’s Mane (aka Yamabushitake):

"As the water soluble extract seems to be less potent than other fractions, it may be best to take Yamabushitake with meals if in supplemental form"

Remark: Indeed alcohol and fat-soluble active compounds like the terpenes in Lion's Mane are best taken with food. .

“Currently, the only human study has used an oral dose of 1,000mg Yamabushitake (96% purity extract) thrice daily for a cumulative total of 3,000mg extract. While it is unknown if this is the optimal dose or not, it appeared to be effective.”

Remark: The case-study did not use an extract but ground-up dried mushrooms in a cookie. Not extracted, not pure.

"Yamabushitake ethanolic extract appears to increase NGF mRNA levels, and this has been confirmed following oral administration to mice"

"Secretion of NGF from astrocytes has been noted to be increased with incubation of Yamabushitake ethanolic extract"

"[The alcohol-soluble mero-terpene known as] Hericenone Bappears to potently and specifically inhibit collagen-induced platelet aggregation, with other hericenones not having much of an effect and other forms of aggregation not being significantly affected. The concentration this occurs at suggests that it is biologically relevant. [Hericenone B is only found in the fruiting body]"

Remark: The information on examine.com needs updating. The research from the past 4 years in particular has been focussing on the NGF-inducing effects but is missing from examine.com. Several interesting papers have been published.

-------------------------------------------------

The Lion’s Mane newsletter issued earlier this year by online vendor Oriveda contains a list of downloadable recent publications not present on examine.com.

Below are the links to those research papers, mainly focussing on the nootropic effects of Lion's Mane:

• The influence of Hericium erinaceus extract on myelination process in vitro (2003)
• Hericenones and erinacines- stimulators of nerve growth factor (NGF) biosynthesis in Hericium erinaceus (2010)
• Protective Effects of Hericium erinaceus Mycelium and Its Isolated Erinacine A (2014)
• Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program (2015)
• Hericium erinaceus mycelium and its isolated erinacine A protection from MPTP-induced neurotoxicity through the ER stress (2016)
• Erinacine A-enriched Hericium erinaceus mycelium ameliorates Alzheimer’s disease-related pathologies (2016)
• Erinacine A-Enriched Hericium erinaceus Mycelium Produces Antidepressant-Like Effects (2018)
• Cyanthin Diterpenoid and Sesterterpene Constituents of Hericium erinaceus Mycelium Ameliorate Alzheimer’s Disease-Related Pathologies (2018)
• Protective Effect of Ethanol Extracts of Hericium erinaceus on Alloxan-Induced Diabetic Neuropathic Pain (2015)
• Compounds for dementia from Hericium erinaceum (2008)
• Neurohealth Properties of Hericium erinaceus Mycelia Enriched with Erinacines (2018)

Copy/pasted from that same newsletter:

[...] Lion’s Mane is an edible medicinal mushroom with some distinct properties. It contains a range of over 30 bioactive compounds known as hericenones (in the fruiting body) and erinacines (in the mycelium). These unique compounds have shown the potential to stimulate the production of the so-called Nerve Growth factor (NGF).

Another distinct property is that these compounds appear to support and speed up formation of the myelin sheath (which protects nerve fibers and improves their 'processing speed'). The process of 'myelination' is essential for the proper functioning of the nervous system but declines with age.

Unfortunately, the NGF production itself is declining with age as well and science so far has not been able to come up with an answer for that.


Blood Brain Barrier explained


NGF cannot pass through the blood-brain barrier (BBB) and needs to be injected directly into the brain to be effective. This is not an effective method. A safer approach would be a compound that could be administered orally, pass through the BBB and induce NGF synthesis directly inside the brain.

The NGF-promoting hericenones and erinacines discovered in Lion’s Mane are alcohol-soluble terpenes with a low molecular weight, which allows them to pass the blood-brain barrier easily. Because of this they are currently the subject of intensive research. So far one of the main hurdles is that the complexity of these natural compounds and their poor pharmaco-kinetic profile make synthesis and clinical use difficult.

Hot water extraction is the most common and cheapest way to optimize the poor bioavailability of the bioactive compounds present in medicinal mushrooms, but this method was developed for and is focused on isolating water-soluble compounds with a high molecular weight: mainly beta-glucans. The alcohol-soluble bioactives (including the NGF-inducing compounds - terpenes) will not be present and beta-glucans have no effect on NGF production.

Terpenes are fatty/oily compounds which causes technical hurdles if the final product should be a stable powdered extract. This can be solved by adding additives but the drawback […] is dilution of the final product and lowering its potency. Given that the percentage of terpenes in Lion's Mane is quite low to start with this is not a good solution.

[…] recent research clearly indicated that the erinacines in the mycelium are the most powerful NGF-inducing compounds; they were found to have up to 4 times the effect of hericenones.

[…] developed a unique [liquid] substrate based on specific peptides/amino acid-combinations that increased the production of erinacines in the mycelium with a factor 10 or more.

--------------------------------------------

I think this is the research article outlining the "unique [liquid] substrate" cultivation process: Production of cyathane type secondary metabolites by submerged cultures of Hericium erinaceus and evaluation of their antibacterial activity by direct bioautography

Conclusion
Based on this information it is clear that a Lion’s Mane supplement targeted at NGF-induction or slowing down cognitive decline should ideally be an alcohol extract based on pure -liquid grown- mycelium, optimised and standardised for terpenes.

Testing for specific erinacines and hericenones is a problem because no 100% pure reference material exists to test against and there are about 30 different erinacines / hericenones to test for, making it expensive.

Oriveda's solution to test for terpenes as a group is a good compromise I think, i.p. because only diterpenes, meroterpenes/phenols and a few sesquiterpenes were described in the research and the genome-mapping of Lion's Mane (see:Genomic and transcriptomic analyses reveal differential regulation of diverse terpenoid and polyketides secondary metabolites in Hericium erinaceus). These include all erinacines/hericenones but little else.

--------------------------------------------

Edit: Oriveda just released (May 2019) an updated version of their Lion's Mane alcohol extract. It now specifies erinacines and hericenones, plus total terpenes. Very smart approach they used: take the methods that were used/described in the research papers to discover/isolate the compounds to measure the percentages in the extract.

Let's hope other vendors will do the same for the sake of transparancy !! UK's Mind Nutrition already did (July 2019) !

--------------------------------------------

Products
There are only a few relevant supplements to choose from. Specifications only taken into account if they are on the supplement facts panel (meaning: guaranteed).

TL;DR: only Oriveda and Nyishar include pure mycelium and specify/guarantee the NGF-inducing compounds. These are the only alcohol extracts. Oriveda has a third party test report [link]

Europe

Holland/Germany - Oriveda € 50 for 60 grams, alcohol extract, specifies beta-glucan, terpenes, erinacines, hericenones and polyphenols

UK - Oriveda € 50 for 60 grams, alcohol extract, specifies beta-glucan, terpenes, erinacines, hericenones and polyphenols

UK - Mind Nutrition £ 50 / ± € 57 for 60 grams - dual extract, specifies beta-glucan, terpenes and hericenones

UK - Time Health Lion’s Mane, £ 19 / ± € 22 for 100 grams, claims to be dual extract, but there's nothing to support that claim. They specify polysaccharides (ugh !)

UK - Nyishar £ 90 / ± € 101 for 68 grams. Alcohol extract, specifies beta-glucan, terpenes and polyphenols

US

Oriveda $60 for 60 grams, alcohol extract, specifies specifies beta-glucan, terpenes, erinacines, hericenones and polyphenols

Noomadics Lion's Mane $30 for 30 grams, claims to be dual extract, but specifies beta-glucan

Vitajing Lion’s Mane $23 for 60 grams, claims to be dual extract, but there's nothing to support that claim

Nootropics Depot $88 for 90 grams, claims dual extract, but no specifications

Lost Empire Herbs $30 for 30 grams, claims to be dual extract, but no specifications

Pure Nootropics $30 for 30 grams, claims to be dual extract, but no specifications

 

[Wagner83]

People do not distinguish between 'mycelium' (read 'pure mycelium grown in liquid) and 'biomass' (the mixture of mycelium and the undigested grain/rice in which it was cultivated; also marketed as 'fermented'). That last one is mainly useless starch (> 60%). Stamets 's products are biomass-based and very poor, quality-wise.

The products he's selling are 60 - 70% useless starch (!) and only 30 - 40% mushroom material. He confirms this himself in one of his patents. Selling this stuff is a ripoff with the prices he's charging. On top of that, his products are not extracted and therefore have an unpredictable bioavailability.

He also does not guarantee a single active ingredient and refuses to share test reports, not even about the heavy metal content. More red flags !

As for the mycelium thing, the idea that fruiting body-based supplements are always preferable over mycelium-based supplements is a widespread misunderstanding on Reddit and completely wrong.

In several cases supplements based on pure, liquid-grown mycelium are preferable over fruiting body-based supplements.

• Lion's Mane mycelium contains erinacines, which are the most powerful NGF-inducers. These are not found in the fruiting body. See this thread for more info about this. If you want the best Lion's Mane you should get an alcohol extracted product containing pure mycelium. It should specify and guarantee the NGF-inducers (terpenes, erinacines)

• Cordyceps sinensis CS-4 supplements are always based on mycelium.

• Turkey Tail research has been using almost exclusively mycelium (the famous PSK and PSP are mycelium-based).

TL;DR :If there are decent specs on the label (guaranteed percentages of glucans, (tri)terpenes etc.) this whole discussion would be irrelevant immediately. But most vendors like to keep things vague or are ignorant. Biomass-based products will never specify anything because there nothing to brag about. Stamets knows but prefers to ignore the science.

Is Paul Stamet's product line a scam since it uses only mycelium? : MushroomSupplements

@Daniel11 begs to differ My Healing Story. For the record I had tried real mushrooms because Bill Lagakos ' said I should (affiliated link) and didn't notice anything at the time.
I'd be curious to try cs-4.

 

[Experienced]

So are you going with the Amazon brand recommend by Ecstatichamster? I am interested in the beta glucans

Oriveda ships to 84 countries :) give it a try. Because I'm also new to it yet. I'll be back tomorrow from vacation I'm immediately gonna start cycling on Lion's mane , Cordyceps , Chaga. Definitely from Oriveda . Like I said no promotion or anything it's based on my own twist and take .

 

[akgrrrl]

Right on. You are very thorough. I truly appreciate this. My next 4 months will be life changing and this will assist me greatly. Thankyou

 

[akgrrrl]

I collect a lot of chaga at home in Alaska. Love it.