COPPER - Very Important For Mitochondria-metabolism. Toxic Or Important - Depends On The Form

Doludolu

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Hey there, fellas!

"Copper in nature = Copper 0 , stable form, e.g. nugget,pipe
Fully oxidized Copper you see on corroded pipes (blue) is Copper II "cupric copper" - copper for plants.Plants turn Copper II to Copper I.
Plant (bioavailable) human copper - Copper 1. It has a donatable electron.
Copper II does not have an electron to donate, it remains in the extracellular matrix and over time creating toxicity. Biggest sources: food supplements - copper II (same as from pipes, nuggets - toxic)
Copper is important for ATP cycling. Copper is critical for completion of ETC (electron transport chain) - Copper I. "

I know it's possible to be copper deficient & toxic at the same time. What in reality that means - having excess toxic copper and not enough bioavailable copper. This mineral is important for mitochondrial health & metabolism.

So I guess the final idea is to say, that we need get bioavailable copper daily for proper cellular respiration. And avoid the toxic copper forms as much as possible!

Source: Home - MitoSynergy
 

Doludolu

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Cu II is fine.
What's the point of just saying is fine.. ? Could you provide then some evidence / research on why pipe (elemental) copper wouldn't be toxic? Why it then accumulates in the body, in the cells and creates toxic effects, hindering ATP production and mitochondrial capacity = (what the mitosynergy are claiming) ?
 
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What's the point of just saying is fine.. ? Could you provide then some evidence / research on why pipe (elemental) copper wouldn't be toxic? Why it then accumulates in the body, in the cells and creates toxic effects, hindering ATP production and mitochondrial capacity = (what the mitosynergy are claiming) ?

It was already discussed elsewhere on this forum, several times.
 
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Oh, okay. I'll search for it. Or perhaps you could link those threads here, brother?

There are several copper related topics, and there were always discussions about supplemental forms, you have to wade through them to find parts that you find relevant.
 

Spondive

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You can make copper 1 by using a reducing agent like ascorbic acid. Mix equal parts of ascorbic acid with sodium bicarbonate and then add copper 2 sulfate or chloride or whatever and it will turn brown color which should be copper 1.
 

Ihor

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You can make copper 1 by using a reducing agent like ascorbic acid. Mix equal parts of ascorbic acid with sodium bicarbonate and then add copper 2 sulfate or chloride or whatever and it will turn brown color which should be copper 1.
Did you try to take these Cu+1 and did your notice any difference between other forms?
 

Rave re-peat

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Hey there, fellas!

"Copper in nature = Copper 0 , stable form, e.g. nugget,pipe
Fully oxidized Copper you see on corroded pipes (blue) is Copper II "cupric copper" - copper for plants.Plants turn Copper II to Copper I.
Plant (bioavailable) human copper - Copper 1. It has a donatable electron.
Copper II does not have an electron to donate, it remains in the extracellular matrix and over time creating toxicity. Biggest sources: food supplements - copper II (same as from pipes, nuggets - toxic)
Copper is important for ATP cycling. Copper is critical for completion of ETC (electron transport chain) - Copper I. "

I know it's possible to be copper deficient & toxic at the same time. What in reality that means - having excess toxic copper and not enough bioavailable copper. This mineral is important for mitochondrial health & metabolism.

So I guess the final idea is to say, that we need get bioavailable copper daily for proper cellular respiration. And avoid the toxic copper forms as much as possible!

Source: Home - MitoSynergy

Copper like Many other minerals are transition metals. Means it donates and Accept electrons to transition between oxidized and unoxidized. Iron also do this as Fe iii and Fe ii. THE Body has enzymes/proteins that help do this like ceruloplasmin. The Body is very effective at handling this coz it controls redox balance. And vitamin C does this for Copper Wich also creates dihydroascorbic acid. Dont fall for the unoxidized minerals dont work so buy this expensive supplement concept. Ascorbic acid is the bodys Main facilitator for these transition metals. That is the role of ascorbic acid. Thats why it can work as both an anti oxidant and a pro oxidant. Ascorbic acid deficiency mimics Copper deficiency.
 

youngsinatra

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I think that this statement from MitoSynergy is actually true. Morley Robbins, founder of the Root Cause Protocol is a huge proponent of bioavailable copper, and he dislikes copper supplements and promotes whole food sources only.
Whole food copper is so much better than supplements. - Beef liver, oysters, whole food vitamin C sources. They have many co-factors to utilize these minerals in the right way. Isolated minerals can bring you into even more dysregulation, if not done carefully.
 

Rave re-peat

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I think that this statement from MitoSynergy is actually true. Morley Robbins, founder of the Root Cause Protocol is a huge proponent of bioavailable copper, and he dislikes copper supplements and promotes whole food sources only.
Whole food copper is so much better than supplements. - Beef liver, oysters, whole food vitamin C sources. They have many co-factors to utilize these minerals in the right way. Isolated minerals can bring you into even more dysregulation, if not done carefully.
No its not true. You are right that Copper or Any mineral like Zinc etc is Always better from food rather than isolated mineral. But if you have a proven deficiency cu ii works. It has been shown in Many studies to increase Copper and ceruloplasmin. Wich is THE enzyme Morley is trying to raise. I personally have raised My ceruloplasmin with regular. Copper. And Morley Robbins is a fraud. Theres No difference between ascorbic acid and vitamin C like he claims. Vitamin D opposite to what hes claiming actually raised ceruloplasmin. Also studies on that. Many People have fallen very ill following His protocol. They promotes consultation that Costa several thousands of dollars. And promotes so high magnesium doses People ***t their pants literally. THE Body is perfectly capable of turning cu ii into cu i if it needs so. Copper toxicity is not due to Copper itself. Its due to lack of other co factors for proper working Copper system. Just like iron toxicity rarely is thanks to iron rather just general poor health and lack of other nutrients.
 

youngsinatra

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No its not true. You are right that Copper or Any mineral like Zinc etc is Always better from food rather than isolated mineral. But if you have a proven deficiency cu ii works. It has been shown in Many studies to increase Copper and ceruloplasmin. Wich is THE enzyme Morley is trying to raise. I personally have raised My ceruloplasmin with regular. Copper. And Morley Robbins is a fraud. Theres No difference between ascorbic acid and vitamin C like he claims. Vitamin D opposite to what hes claiming actually raised ceruloplasmin. Also studies on that. Many People have fallen very ill following His protocol. They promotes consultation that Costa several thousands of dollars. And promotes so high magnesium doses People ***t their pants literally. THE Body is perfectly capable of turning cu ii into cu i if it needs so. Copper toxicity is not due to Copper itself. Its due to lack of other co factors for proper working Copper system. Just like iron toxicity rarely is thanks to iron rather just general poor health and lack of other nutrients.
I don't take his word as gospel and I have greatly different views than him, for example on calcium:magnesium ratio, vitamin D3 etc.
 

Mufasa

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MitoSynergy 130 euro per month.
Crown Prince Smoked oyster in olive oil is 75 euro per 30 packages of 65 gram oyster (drained).
32.5 gram of smoked oyster contains:

1612530227184.png

Which is all the copper and zinc that you need.
I think that is a better deal :)
 

Spondive

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Did you try to take these Cu+1 and did your notice any difference between other forms?
I been trying this now... I haven’t tried mitosynergy though... don’t know if I feel any different effects yet
 

Nebula

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I been trying this now... I haven’t tried mitosynergy though... don’t know if I feel any different effects yet
Do you have any updates on how this is working for you? I added some ascorbic acid and baking soda to dissolve copper glycinate. About an hour later it went from blue to orange-yellow. I’m currently not getting great results from eating liver so I wonder if this will be better utilized, but it sounds like it actually might be less bioavailable in this form.

Most of what you find about copper and vitamin C claims that it reduces it to Cu (I) if consumed at the same time and inhibits absorption in that form, but once absorbed vitamin C enhances the function of ceruloplasmin.

Cell experiments suggest that less copper binds to superoxide dismutase when ascorbate levels are high in the culture medium. In high ascorbate conditions, only 33% of copper can be immunoprecipitated with antibodies to superoxide dismutase, but when ascorbic acid is absent, 94% of the copper is immunoprecipitable. Experimental data suggests that ascorbate inhibits the post translations step of inserting copper into the super oxide dismutase protein. Similarities between the symptoms of copper deficiency in animals and scurvy in humans would tend to suggest that there is a mutual synergism between ascorbic acid and copper. Bone and connective tissue defects, anaemia and subcutaneous haemorrhaging are seen in both deficiency states. Therefore ascorbate appears to play a dual role in cooper metabolism, inhibiting the absorption of copper from the gut, but stimulating uptake at the cellular level.
 
Last edited:

Spondive

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Do you have any updates on how this is working for you? I added some ascorbic acid and baking soda to dissolve copper glycinate. About an hour later it went from blue to orange-yellow. I’m currently not getting great results from eating liver so I wonder if this will be better utilized, but it sounds like it actually might be less bioavailable in this form.

Most of what you find about copper and vitamin C claims that it reduces it to Cu (I) if consumed at the same time and inhibits absorption in that form, but once absorbed vitamin C enhances the function of ceruloplasmin.

So far have not noticed anything positive or negative
 

Nebula

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So far have not noticed anything positive or negative
It seemed to reduce endotoxin, but I started getting some kind of acne. I think from the vitamin C so I stopped. I’m going to start taking thyroid soon. I probably shouldn’t be messing around with all these micronutrient supplements while hypothyroid.
 
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