Copper Deficient - Please Help

[olive]

what’s your view on Hair test assessing copper status? I’ve had low copper every test along with slightly elevated zinc.

I don't bother with them. Treat symptoms not numbers, especially numbers from a test that is proven inaccurate.

Do you think in your experience with clients that 250g of liver a week is enough for Copper?

More than enough. I prescribe my clients 100g liver twice a week, half expecting them to only eat it once per week. But the diet in general is usually fairly copper heavy so it’s fine regardless.

 

[BRMarshall]

Of interest~ A paper entitled: A Note on the Biology of Copper
http://www.aetherometry.com/publications/direct/JAethRes/JAR02-03-01.pdf

 

[Vinero]

Of interest~ A paper entitled: A Note on the Biology of Copper
http://www.aetherometry.com/publications/direct/JAethRes/JAR02-03-01.pdf

Wow. This is big. What if it's true? Copper is actually a toxic metal/poison. My mind is blown.

 

[redsun]

Wow. This is big. What if it's true? Copper is actually a toxic metal/poison. My mind is blown.

Seeing as copper is needed to make noradrenaline and adrenaline, two vital neurotransmitters among many other things that I can't recall off the top of my head. I'd say its definitely essential and not automatically a poison though I'd imagine it can be just like most essential heavy metals we need.

I definitely can say overdoing zinc is like turning the whole body off while stopping the zinc and having more copper(and vitamin C) is like the whole body turns back on, at least in my experience.

 

[lampofred]

I think copper and Vitamin A can seem toxic if there is not enough inhibition/CO2. They lower blood sugar, so if you have too much sugar fermentation as opposed to efficient sugar oxidation then they will drastically lower blood sugar and cause problems.

 

[Kingpinguin]

I went through a period of time a year ago where I supplemented around 50mg zinc per day. I got more and more lethargic and apathetic over time, but never realized it could have been the zinc.

I tested my copper and Ceruloplasmin (both are in range but at the very bottom/borderline low). I tested Ferritin which came out low at 35.

I'm just now starting to test out 1-2mg/day of copper to see if my symptoms improve. On the first day I tried copper, I felt noticeably more alert and "on" during the entire day. I definitely don't think it was placebo. It's a feeling I haven't had in a while (excited, stimulated, alert, mind working faster and more clearly).

Have you experienced similar symptoms from low copper? Did you end up fixing copper issues successfully?

you have something called chlorophyllin which is chlorophyll but the center magnesium ion is replaced by an copper ion. So the average 100mg chlorophyllin dose gives you 2-4mg copper. I also know people who have depleted their stores with zinc and fixed it with chlorophyllin. Some people dont fully recover unless you throw in some iron as iron deficiency is quite common inconjunction with copper deficiency from excess zinc. As thats where the fatigue comes from. Low copper have more joint, skin and hair symptoms. My joints was clicking, cracking, popping and hurting when I had low copper. Now I’m all good again. I went several years like that untill I did figure it out. And it was reversable within 2-3 months.

 

[danishispsychic]

Black strap molasses

 

[Amazoniac]

you have something called chlorophyllin which is chlorophyll but the center magnesium ion is replaced by an copper ion. So the average 100mg chlorophyllin dose gives you 2-4mg copper. I also know people who have depleted their stores with zinc and fixed it with chlorophyllin. Some people dont fully recover unless you throw in some iron as iron deficiency is quite common inconjunction with copper deficiency from excess zinc. As thats where the fatigue comes from. Low copper have more joint, skin and hair symptoms. My joints was clicking, cracking, popping and hurting when I had low copper. Now I’m all good again. I went several years like that untill I did figure it out. And it was reversable within 2-3 months.

Semi-god, do you know its fate after ingestion? I doesn't, but check this out:

- Copper chlorophyllin: A food colorant with bioactive properties?

"Unlike the Cu-Chl mixture as a whole, some of its individual components may be absorbed and be available to other tissues in human body. Copper chlorin e4 ethyl ester, a less polar chlorin present in commercial Cu-Chl and more likely to be absorbed, was abundantly found in human blood serum (Egner et al., 2000). Thus, at least one of Cu-Chl main components, copper chlorin e6, is probably degraded during digestion and absorption. In addition, some pigments present in commercial grade Cu-Chl, such as chlorin e6, may have their absorption limited probably by the action of transport proteins located at the luminal membrane of intestinal epithelial cells, which prevents these pigments from producing possible phototoxic effects (Robey, Steadman, Polgar, & Bates, 2005). However, the limitation of absorption of Cu-Chl components leads to decreasing bioavailability and biological activity through post-absorptive mechanisms."

"The Cu-Chl absorption and distribution to different tissues were also investigated in rats by Gomes et al. (2009 [↙]), who observed the absence of copper chlorin e6 in blood serum and tissues (liver and kidney), possibly due to its non-absorption, its degradation or its interaction with other dietary components. However, they reported the presence of copper chlorin e4 in both serum and tissue extracts (liver and kidney). Also, lipid peroxidation in rat brain was effectively reduced after administration of Cu-Chl, confirming significant absorption and bioavailability."

"The copper atom is tightly bonded in the porphyrin ring of Cu-Chl, which provides resistance to strong acids; it is not absorbed by the body but excreted in complex form (Humphrey, 1980)."​

- Bioavailability of dietary sodium copper chlorophyllin and its effect on antioxidant defence parameters of Wistar rats

Spoiler

Wtf? (kine, 2018)

They mentioned the aflaxotid experiment where subjects received 300 mg/d. A few of them had green bloods, so at least we know that in high amounts it's adsorbed, but how much is completely broken down to be usable?

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Black strap molasses

Yes, a rich source of copper and other minerals. But also a rich source of iron, too. Have it with tea or coffee: Reducing effect of ingesting tannic acid on the absorption of iron, but not of zinc, copper and manganese by rats. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Mito]

Seeing as copper is needed to make noradrenaline and adrenaline, two vital neurotransmitters among many other things that I can't recall off the top of my head.

cytochrome c oxidase

superoxide dismutase (SOD1)

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Of interest~ A paper entitled: A Note on the Biology of Copper
http://www.aetherometry.com/publications/direct/JAethRes/JAR02-03-01.pdf

That paper has a long way to go in proving that we should be treating copper like we do iron. All it said was that sources of unbound copper is dangerous. Wow, really, unbound metals are bad?

It's all about the enzymes and proteins.

 

[RWilly]

Wow. This is big. What if it's true? Copper is actually a toxic metal/poison. My mind is blown.

Keep in mind that in many chronic disease, serum copper is high due to the acute phase reaction, which happens during infection. Copper is antimicrobial.

Excess copper is easily excreted, mainly in feces. Unless someone has a genetic disease like Wilson's, it's pretty hard to be copper toxic. Even copper miners that were green from copper saturation, were healthy and were still able to work the mines in their eighties. They were also protected from diseases such as cholera.
Are Copper Water Bottles Safe?

 

[Kingpinguin]

Semi-god, do you know its fate after ingestion? I doesn't, but check this out:

- Copper chlorophyllin: A food colorant with bioactive properties?

"Unlike the Cu-Chl mixture as a whole, some of its individual components may be absorbed and be available to other tissues in human body. Copper chlorin e4 ethyl ester, a less polar chlorin present in commercial Cu-Chl and more likely to be absorbed, was abundantly found in human blood serum (Egner et al., 2000). Thus, at least one of Cu-Chl main components, copper chlorin e6, is probably degraded during digestion and absorption. In addition, some pigments present in commercial grade Cu-Chl, such as chlorin e6, may have their absorption limited probably by the action of transport proteins located at the luminal membrane of intestinal epithelial cells, which prevents these pigments from producing possible phototoxic effects (Robey, Steadman, Polgar, & Bates, 2005). However, the limitation of absorption of Cu-Chl components leads to decreasing bioavailability and biological activity through post-absorptive mechanisms."

"The Cu-Chl absorption and distribution to different tissues were also investigated in rats by Gomes et al. (2009 [↙]), who observed the absence of copper chlorin e6 in blood serum and tissues (liver and kidney), possibly due to its non-absorption, its degradation or its interaction with other dietary components. However, they reported the presence of copper chlorin e4 in both serum and tissue extracts (liver and kidney). Also, lipid peroxidation in rat brain was effectively reduced after administration of Cu-Chl, confirming significant absorption and bioavailability."

"The copper atom is tightly bonded in the porphyrin ring of Cu-Chl, which provides resistance to strong acids; it is not absorbed by the body but excreted in complex form (Humphrey, 1980)."​

- Bioavailability of dietary sodium copper chlorophyllin and its effect on antioxidant defence parameters of Wistar rats

Spoiler

View attachment 15245

View attachment 15246

Wtf? (kine, 2018)

They mentioned the aflaxotid experiment where subjects received 300 mg/d. A few of them had green bloods, so at least we know that in high amounts it's adsorbed, but how much is completely broken down to be usable?

i believe it does

Semi-god, do you know its fate after ingestion? I doesn't, but check this out:

- Copper chlorophyllin: A food colorant with bioactive properties?

"Unlike the Cu-Chl mixture as a whole, some of its individual components may be absorbed and be available to other tissues in human body. Copper chlorin e4 ethyl ester, a less polar chlorin present in commercial Cu-Chl and more likely to be absorbed, was abundantly found in human blood serum (Egner et al., 2000). Thus, at least one of Cu-Chl main components, copper chlorin e6, is probably degraded during digestion and absorption. In addition, some pigments present in commercial grade Cu-Chl, such as chlorin e6, may have their absorption limited probably by the action of transport proteins located at the luminal membrane of intestinal epithelial cells, which prevents these pigments from producing possible phototoxic effects (Robey, Steadman, Polgar, & Bates, 2005). However, the limitation of absorption of Cu-Chl components leads to decreasing bioavailability and biological activity through post-absorptive mechanisms."

"The Cu-Chl absorption and distribution to different tissues were also investigated in rats by Gomes et al. (2009 [↙]), who observed the absence of copper chlorin e6 in blood serum and tissues (liver and kidney), possibly due to its non-absorption, its degradation or its interaction with other dietary components. However, they reported the presence of copper chlorin e4 in both serum and tissue extracts (liver and kidney). Also, lipid peroxidation in rat brain was effectively reduced after administration of Cu-Chl, confirming significant absorption and bioavailability."

"The copper atom is tightly bonded in the porphyrin ring of Cu-Chl, which provides resistance to strong acids; it is not absorbed by the body but excreted in complex form (Humphrey, 1980)."​

- Bioavailability of dietary sodium copper chlorophyllin and its effect on antioxidant defence parameters of Wistar rats

Spoiler

View attachment 15245

View attachment 15246

Wtf? (kine, 2018)

They mentioned the aflaxotid experiment where subjects received 300 mg/d. A few of them had green bloods, so at least we know that in high amounts it's adsorbed, but how much is completely broken down to be usable?

I’ve read some studies where part of its bioactive action as an antioxidant is due to its copper ion. If the body can use this copper for copper dependent processes I don’t have an answer. But it would be suprising that the body can use magnesium from chlorophyll, iron from hemoglobin but not copper from chlorophyllin if thats the case. Theres also several youtubers that come up with ”low copper” and have used chlorophyllin to correct that.

 

[Amazoniac]

i believe it does


I’ve read some studies where part of its bioactive action as an antioxidant is due to its copper ion. If the body can use this copper for copper dependent processes I don’t have an answer. But it would be suprising that the body can use magnesium from chlorophyll, iron from hemoglobin but not copper from chlorophyllin if thats the case. Theres also several youtubers that come up with ”low copper” and have used chlorophyllin to correct that.

Thank you. It could be an interesting source if a significant amount ends up usable. But I would not rely on those two examples..

Heme iron is native and completely released if needed as far as I know.

Diabetic nephropathy and endothelial dysfunction: Current and future therapies, and emerging of vascular imaging for preclinical renal-kinetic study

Not much is knowned regarding the fate of magnesium in chlorophyll. However, most of the magnesium in leaves isn't found in it:

Getting Plenty Of Magnesium Without Supplements: Tough But Possible​

Their digestion has to be partial for a significant portion of them to stay in the body and act as photosensitizers:

Chlorophyll Or Chlorophyllin​

The low toxicity reinforces it, but could also make it viable to compensate by ingesting more to get the desired amount in case some is released and there's no risk of odd substitution with the rest.

 

[Kingpinguin]

I went through a period of time a year ago where I supplemented around 50mg zinc per day. I got more and more lethargic and apathetic over time, but never realized it could have been the zinc.

I tested my copper and Ceruloplasmin (both are in range but at the very bottom/borderline low). I tested Ferritin which came out low at 35.

I'm just now starting to test out 1-2mg/day of copper to see if my symptoms improve. On the first day I tried copper, I felt noticeably more alert and "on" during the entire day. I definitely don't think it was placebo. It's a feeling I haven't had in a while (excited, stimulated, alert, mind working faster and more clearly).

Have you experienced similar symptoms from low copper? Did you end up fixing copper issues successfully?

Foods i can recommend is squid is very high in copper and quite cheap. Cacao also high copper. Lobster and oysters. Mushrooms specially shittake. Cashew nuts although high in PUFA. The king is liver tho except chicken liver. But the other foods I mentioned should get you much morethen the RDI aswell.

 

[_lppaiva]

A lot of my male clients have this issue after they mistakenly megadose zinc for purported 'testosterone increasing' benefits. Common signs and symptoms are fat accumulation around the midsection, dry skin, gray hairs, malaise, brain fog, etc. I recommend avoiding supplements and instead opting for liver, 100g twice a week drunk with a coffee. Copper deficiency goes hand in hand with iron deficiency also so look out for that.
Upon cessation of zinc mega-dose and starting a high copper diet - 3mg/day minimum - symptoms reside fairly quickly. I've seen pictures from clients that clearly show a solid line transition from white hair to black as the hair grows, it's that quick.

Does the coffee impare copper absorption or just iron? I know it might impare zinc and calcium as , but not sure if its universal. I always avoid coffee with meat, because despite de Iron, It my main source of zinc, so it's a price I pay.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

So are the folks who get the Testosterone boosting benefit from Zinc, is it cause they were deficient?

 

[RWilly]

So are the folks who get the Testosterone boosting benefit from Zinc, is it cause they were deficient?

I know that when I go in for a blood donation, one of the questions on the questionnaire is if I was asked to give blood by a doctor due to testosterone therapy.

 

[RWilly]

Does the coffee impare copper absorption or just iron? I know it might impare zinc and calcium as , but not sure if its universal. I always avoid coffee with meat, because despite de Iron, It my main source of zinc, so it's a price I pay.

I'm pretty sure I read a study in all my copper research (which I cannot find at this moment), that tea and coffee do not impact copper absorption. Iron and zinc d0, and calcium helps the body hold on to copper.

 

[ebs]

What kind of copper supplements are the most efficient?