Copper And Zinc Foods?

[RWilly]

Our ancestors diet wasnt that rich in zinc. They didnt eat meat the same way we did and they didnt eat fortified cereals, they didnt eat nuts and if they did eat nuts well nuts is really high in copper aswell. I think the rdi for copper and zinc is to big now and not optimal. 1/10 or 1/15. Looking at ancesteral diets it was more 3/10 some even consider it 5/10

And nut intake really isn't that great of a source of zinc, as nuts also have phytic acid that binds zinc.

 

[Kingpinguin]

And nut intake really isn't that great of a source of zinc, as nuts also have phytic acid that binds zinc.

ye best sources are animal and seafood. And i actually think we eat more of those today than in the past considering industriali fishing and breeding

my point is i think zinc requirements are lower than we think

 

[Motif]

Does sex really has a serious influence on it?

 

[sunraiser]

Copper and zinc are linked to calcium and magnesium (and other nutrients by proxy).

I soak oats in milk over night (they simply taste better this way) and have them with dark chocolate and honey some days, occasionally with banana or blueberries. Some days I leave it in the fridge if I don't feel like it though. Still - a decent amount of copper!

I don't think the answer to copper and zinc issues is simply to jam down more against cravings.

Have you tried eating first thing in the morning and then smaller meals often throughout the day for a few weeks? Just eating what you crave.

Beef chilli with kidney beans is a really balanced zinc/copper dish - you can add yogurt if you feel like it.

In my experience minerals, especially copper (and in turn, zinc), are often limited by metabolic strength.

NB: when metabolic health is weak and calories are needed I think it's important to eat first thing and as often as you want. When digestion is weak and liver glycogen stores are impaired then the hours in the day matter a little more, as does helping your body out by eating enjoyable and plentiful food. If you crave outdoor light then make sure to get out of the house a little, too.

 

[Motif]

Thanks! Now I crave beef chilli...

 

[sunraiser]

Thanks! Now I crave beef chilli...

Haha

 

[LauriePartridge]

Perhaps. Sometimes treating what appears to be a zinc deficiency, can cause a copper deficiency.

Doctors cause copper deficiency by 'misdiagnosing a need for zinc'

I completely agree based on my own experience and research. Every time I supplement with zinc, I end up with a copper deficiency. I tried supplementing 16 mgs of elemental zinc in zinc carnosine (before I switched to a Peat diet)for about a month and I noticed finger swelling and then my white blood cell count went down, like abnormally below range. I started to taste zinc even when I ate zinc foods like oatmeal and then I'd get intense fatigue. It was weird and scary. My copper test came back low. So I stopped the zinc and supplemented with 2mgs of copper a day for about a week. Two weeks later my WBC count went way up to a good range and I eventually stopped tasting zinc when I ate(but it took like a month after stopping the zinc). I tried a few years later supplementing zinc carnosine again( I only took it 6 times) but with an additional 2mgs of copper per 16 mgs of zinc and I still ended up with a copper deficiency. When supplementing, zinc and copper compete and zinc always wins.

I calculated for my weight I only need about5 mgs of zinc a day which is not hard for me to achieve in my diet anyway.

And then I realized I had to be really careful with anything that might deplete copper- especially since reading Peat's commentary on copper wasting. It just made so much sense to me.

 

[Motif]

How do you achieve the 5 mg zinc through food?

 

[LauriePartridge]

How do you achieve the 5 mg zinc through food?

4-5 cups of milk which has 1 mg approx per cup (high amount); sprouted oats (high), egg yolks (high), beef liver (high), baked potato (high), winter and summer squash, and cottage cheese (high) which ends up being about 10 mgs.

 

[RWilly]

I completely agree based on my own experience and research. Every time I supplement with zinc, I end up with a copper deficiency. I tried supplementing 16 mgs of elemental zinc in zinc carnosine (before I switched to a Peat diet)for about a month and I noticed finger swelling and then my white blood cell count went down, like abnormally below range. I started to taste zinc even when I ate zinc foods like oatmeal and then I'd get intense fatigue. It was weird and scary. My copper test came back low. So I stopped the zinc and supplemented with 2mgs of copper a day for about a week. Two weeks later my WBC count went way up to a good range and I eventually stopped tasting zinc when I ate(but it took like a month after stopping the zinc). I tried a few years later supplementing zinc carnosine again( I only took it 6 times) but with an additional 2mgs of copper per 16 mgs of zinc and I still ended up with a copper deficiency. When supplementing, zinc and copper compete and zinc always wins.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Interesting that you got that taste with oatmeal, since oatmeal has a lot of copper in it too. It's also got the iron. I always hope the phytic acid picks up the iron and zinc to make way for copper absorption.

 

[Motif]

Thanks Laurie.


I heard you can’t absorb zinc and copper from oats well

 

[LauriePartridge]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Interesting that you got that taste with oatmeal, since oatmeal has a lot of copper in it too. It's also got the iron. I always hope the phytic acid picks up the iron and zinc to make way for copper absorption.

Yes, it was really interesting. You're right about the copper and iron in oats but the copper wasn't enough to balance the zinc at that time. And honestly from everything I've read I didn't think it possible to absorb that much from oats because of the phytic acid but apparently it is, at least for me. However, I do eat sprouted oats which might to some degree reduce the amount of phytic acid and increase absorbability. But I think I overloaded on zinc (even though it didn't seem like that much) so it just pushed out the copper. Also I'm suspicious it might have had something to do with low stomach acid - since copper, I believe, requires acid to assimilate and zinc doesn't (could be wrong here but maybe it's not affected as much as copper). So then if your stomach acid is on the low side you might pick up more zinc than copper in food. Or if you burn copper like Peat says can happen, you're just more at risk for lower copper than zinc.

 

[RWilly]

Also I'm suspicious it might have had something to do with low stomach acid - since copper, I believe, requires acid to assimilate and zinc doesn't (could be wrong here but maybe it's not affected as much as copper). So then if your stomach acid is on the low side you might pick up more zinc than copper in food. Or if you burn copper like Peat says can happen, you're just more at risk for lower copper than zinc.

I haven't come across a stomach acid / copper connection before. I'll have to look into that.

And I do think sprouted oats could change the way zinc is absorbed.

 

[Kingpinguin]

Conclusion of the thread. If you have taken zinc supplements in the past go get blood test.
If copper is low eat copper heavy food. Calf live is excellent. Lots of copper and lots of retinol/vitamin A to make it bioavailable and usable. If you decide to go down the copper supplement route i highly recommend that you either take it with a retinyl palmitate low dose or get a blood test done for retinol and confirm that you dont have vitamin A deficiency. If you take copper without having available retinol you’ll possibly end up with side effects. Internet is full off anti copper propaganda. I believe that is in part of a wide spread retinol deficiency. As we peaters also know. Supplying good amount protein, simple carbs, B-vitamins should also be on the to do list.
Best foods to eat:
CALF/BEEF Liver is king
Other organ meats
Shell fish (octopus/squid very good copper)
Cacao
Mushrooms
Coffe
Carrots, cooked spinach, sweet potato
All the fruit has small amounts of copper and you get pro retinoids both from careots, spinach and fruits. If you add in liver, milk, butter and egg yolks your vit A should be covered.
With the above mentioned food at hand you can easily crush the RDI for copper.

just eating the above mentioned foods will likely cover zinc need aswell. Eat some meats, eggs aswell and you good.

Imo 2mg/7mg to me feels like a good ratio. No need to go above those numbers. Some times I get 10mg or more zinc some times i get much more copper. Depends on liver and steaks mostly. Try and avoid supplements

 

[RWilly]

Here's a compilation of research on copper:

My Research on Copper and Health

 

[Motif]

Great, thanks guys

 

[RWilly]

@LauriePartridge - Since you brought up stomach acid, I just came across this anecdotal story about a kid who swallowed a copper coated zinc penny:

When money eats a hole in your stomach

"Most coins are made from copper or nickel, or mixtures of the two. But in
1982, the US replaced its 95 per cent copper one-cent coins with zinc coins
coated with copper. While stomach acid causes little damage to copper and nickel
coins, O’Hara’s says that in her tests it corroded holes through the
copper-plated zinc coins in two days. The US Mint in Washington DC says it has
seen no reaction with one-cent coins that sat in acid for two weeks. But George
Hunter of the mint concedes that the coins might corrode if their coating is
worn.

The reaction of zinc with stomach acid releases toxic zinc chloride, which
O’Hara blames for causing her patient’s ulcer. "

 

[lilsticky]

i need an opinion on using copper cookware

 

[RWilly]

i need an opinion on using copper cookware

Here is some research on copper water bottles. Not the same as cookware, but close.

 

[Kray]

Thanks Laurie.


I heard you can’t absorb zinc and copper from oats well

Soaking the oats overnight, as someone mentioned, or buying sprouted oats, reduces phytic acid and makes them more digestible, probably allowing better absorption of the minerals.