******* copper and ceruloplasmin low!!

Motif

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Motif

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Well, I wouldn't pay too much attention too what your copper number in your blood is. Maybe your body likes to have copper low in the blood for whatever reason. Maybe your copper levels inside the cell is actually high. Who knows. I would rather go by how you feel. How do you feel after eating copper rich foods? Does your skin improve or gets worse? How is your libido etc.
Just eat whatever makes you feel best.

Man I wouldn’t give a damn a bout the deficiency, but I have histamine issues that **** up my life for over a decade and this deficiency’s are connected to histamine issues and I feel a difference from taking zinc and copper.

it’s clearly connected, but I don’t get it how exactly. Maybe my issues would just disappear if my copper would go up, but it never did , so I don’t know.

but when I took copper today my scalp itching which always goes along with hair loss disappeared. Then later the itching came back again. I don’t get it. Sometimes I take zinc and the itching goes away. But it comes back. I don’t get it, but it’s clear that it has direct influence on my scalp itching
 

Vinero

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Here are some comments from Dino from another forum I visit. It's about zinc and copper. He has an interesting view. He thinks too much metals without adequate protein leads to toxic metal buildup. According to him many people he sees are actually zinc toxic from zinc supplements.
Maybe you find this comment interesting:

"On one side as explained recently on another post I have witnessed people reversing their conditions (or at least so it seems) by restricting & chelating zinc. There are also papers (dont have them now because I am travelling and not at home but can share them once back) clearly showing an accumulation oppf zinc within pancreas, nerves, brain, etc and deleterious effects because of that."

"All I can honestly write is that after 10+ years of experimenting and reading etc., I have accumulated lots of analyses and experiences from lots if people and am quite sure (with solid evidence when I look at everything from "above") that the key to modern diseases lies within the "A-copper-zinc complex" and related breathing patterns (basically oxygenation of the body) and all other problems are a "derivation" of that basic (dis)equilibrium (of oxygen/co2 within blood tissues etc.) that's why I would really like to understand it as well as possible as it can relieve much much suffering."

"A few people are zinc toxic and respond to zinc restriction and chelation (they have too much zinc and low copper on their DMPS analyses and in their zinc urine and their symptoms go away with lowering zinc until it gets to normal levels). Whether people believe this or not doesn't change the fact that it is so. Many people here in the "West" part of Switzerland consume lots of meat (pork/beef) and red wine and take zinc supplements so it may be very "regional" but I am quite sure you can find those kind of people everywhere as well. MOST people are however, as you say, copper toxic while at the same time exhibiting symptoms of copper deficiency because of lack of transport proteins. One person was calcium deficient (without other problems, she already healed as mentionned in one of my other posts). A few have other toxicities (manganese is what I have seen once, aluminum and mercury I see that quite often but it goes away once people know and avoid them)."

"THE CENTRAL PROBLEM seems to be by taking "A" poison and various METALS without adequate protein (ex: someone takes accutane, he has LOTS of A and no protein with it, or someone takes zinc or copper supplements without protein or someone eats liver which has WAY TOO MUCH A & COPPER WITHOUT adequate PROTEIN). Then the problems start because those excesses accumulate. If once or twice etc. it is not a problem but if repeatedly you end up having big stocks of A and metals not transported, not used, and basically simply accumulated and then the problems start. Then to make things worse digestion doesn't work well so you have even less usable protein etc. etc.
In summary, if you consume lots of protein and A, copper, etc. there will never be any problem (which was my case almost my whole life until I tried the Grant's diet last year, without much effects until now because I have nothing worrisome to start with - I'll do the diet until end of year then add some "A" foods to see whether there is a difference or not that I could not see without but I guess it will not be a problem except if I start taking accutane or A supplements or I don't know what - I believe A is a toxin but you can "handle" it) because the transport proteins will not be faulty, the A and metals will be used/removed and the system will work great. If, however, you have not enough protein for whatever reason and too much A or metals, they cannot be properly used, transported, removed and will accumulate. Once the accumulation is too big, problems start and accumulate up to a point where life is unbearable and people start searching for answers but at that point it is usually already a very broken system they have."

"I don't know how to really explain it well in english but you get the point. I guess (only a guess which has to be tested) that consuming high protein diet (through lots of beef for example) and avoiding A & the metals you are toxic in should not only heal you quite fast but also minimize the "side effects" of the detoxification. Basically, to remove the excess A&copper (majority of people), a diet very rich in zinc and protein (and all the other things which come up with the whole food) should do the trick. If you are toxic in zinc, then getting your protein without zinc and even chelating it should help. etc. I will come back home soon and analyze much more in detail the various people's analyses etc. talk about it and hope they increase protein in the diet etc. so I'll see what happens not only with detoxification on itself but also the so-called side-effects. I'm pretty sure that complete protein in very good quantity while avoiding A and the metals you're toxic in will do the trick but have to get the "proofs" by experience. I'll be back with that in a few months once people have had the time to test it and to make new analyses etc. (few of them do A & DMPS analyses every 6 months or so so it should be interesting to get an update once they increase drastically the protein/beef part). I sent an e-mail also asking them how much protein they consume so I can compare with the rate of detox when possible (I expect to find a positive correlation between higher prot consumption and faster A lowering but it's maybe just wishful thinking)."

Copper and zinc metabolism - Discussion | Ideas, Concepts, and Observations (ggenereux.blog)
 

Motif

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Here are some comments from Dino from another forum I visit. It's about zinc and copper. He has an interesting view. He thinks too much metals without adequate protein leads to toxic metal buildup. According to him many people he sees are actually zinc toxic from zinc supplements.
Maybe you find this comment interesting:

"On one side as explained recently on another post I have witnessed people reversing their conditions (or at least so it seems) by restricting & chelating zinc. There are also papers (dont have them now because I am travelling and not at home but can share them once back) clearly showing an accumulation oppf zinc within pancreas, nerves, brain, etc and deleterious effects because of that."

"All I can honestly write is that after 10+ years of experimenting and reading etc., I have accumulated lots of analyses and experiences from lots if people and am quite sure (with solid evidence when I look at everything from "above") that the key to modern diseases lies within the "A-copper-zinc complex" and related breathing patterns (basically oxygenation of the body) and all other problems are a "derivation" of that basic (dis)equilibrium (of oxygen/co2 within blood tissues etc.) that's why I would really like to understand it as well as possible as it can relieve much much suffering."

"A few people are zinc toxic and respond to zinc restriction and chelation (they have too much zinc and low copper on their DMPS analyses and in their zinc urine and their symptoms go away with lowering zinc until it gets to normal levels). Whether people believe this or not doesn't change the fact that it is so. Many people here in the "West" part of Switzerland consume lots of meat (pork/beef) and red wine and take zinc supplements so it may be very "regional" but I am quite sure you can find those kind of people everywhere as well. MOST people are however, as you say, copper toxic while at the same time exhibiting symptoms of copper deficiency because of lack of transport proteins. One person was calcium deficient (without other problems, she already healed as mentionned in one of my other posts). A few have other toxicities (manganese is what I have seen once, aluminum and mercury I see that quite often but it goes away once people know and avoid them)."

"THE CENTRAL PROBLEM seems to be by taking "A" poison and various METALS without adequate protein (ex: someone takes accutane, he has LOTS of A and no protein with it, or someone takes zinc or copper supplements without protein or someone eats liver which has WAY TOO MUCH A & COPPER WITHOUT adequate PROTEIN). Then the problems start because those excesses accumulate. If once or twice etc. it is not a problem but if repeatedly you end up having big stocks of A and metals not transported, not used, and basically simply accumulated and then the problems start. Then to make things worse digestion doesn't work well so you have even less usable protein etc. etc.
In summary, if you consume lots of protein and A, copper, etc. there will never be any problem (which was my case almost my whole life until I tried the Grant's diet last year, without much effects until now because I have nothing worrisome to start with - I'll do the diet until end of year then add some "A" foods to see whether there is a difference or not that I could not see without but I guess it will not be a problem except if I start taking accutane or A supplements or I don't know what - I believe A is a toxin but you can "handle" it) because the transport proteins will not be faulty, the A and metals will be used/removed and the system will work great. If, however, you have not enough protein for whatever reason and too much A or metals, they cannot be properly used, transported, removed and will accumulate. Once the accumulation is too big, problems start and accumulate up to a point where life is unbearable and people start searching for answers but at that point it is usually already a very broken system they have."

"I don't know how to really explain it well in english but you get the point. I guess (only a guess which has to be tested) that consuming high protein diet (through lots of beef for example) and avoiding A & the metals you are toxic in should not only heal you quite fast but also minimize the "side effects" of the detoxification. Basically, to remove the excess A&copper (majority of people), a diet very rich in zinc and protein (and all the other things which come up with the whole food) should do the trick. If you are toxic in zinc, then getting your protein without zinc and even chelating it should help. etc. I will come back home soon and analyze much more in detail the various people's analyses etc. talk about it and hope they increase protein in the diet etc. so I'll see what happens not only with detoxification on itself but also the so-called side-effects. I'm pretty sure that complete protein in very good quantity while avoiding A and the metals you're toxic in will do the trick but have to get the "proofs" by experience. I'll be back with that in a few months once people have had the time to test it and to make new analyses etc. (few of them do A & DMPS analyses every 6 months or so so it should be interesting to get an update once they increase drastically the protein/beef part). I sent an e-mail also asking them how much protein they consume so I can compare with the rate of detox when possible (I expect to find a positive correlation between higher prot consumption and faster A lowering but it's maybe just wishful thinking)."

Copper and zinc metabolism - Discussion | Ideas, Concepts, and Observations (ggenereux.blog)
Thanks, but if this would be the case for me I would think that copper and zinc wouldn’t give me relief?
 

Vinero

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Thanks, but if this would be the case for me I would think that copper and zinc wouldn’t give me relief?
I don't know for sure. But one scenario that might be going on is this. Say a person has taken lots of zinc or copper supplements, and that they have accumulated lots of zinc and copper in their organs. They are toxic in zinc and copper. Their body is trying to get rid of the excess metals and it causes your skin to break out (copper toxicity is linked with skin problems such as eczema and acne). Then you take another "hit" of zinc or copper supplements and your body stops the metal detox and goes back to storing it. Now you feel better again and symptoms go away temporarily.
 

Motif

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I don't know for sure. But one scenario that might be going on is this. Say a person has taken lots of zinc or copper supplements, and that they have accumulated lots of zinc and copper in their organs. They are toxic in zinc and copper. Their body is trying to get rid of the excess metals and it causes your skin to break out (copper toxicity is linked with skin problems such as eczema and acne). Then you take another "hit" of zinc or copper supplements and your body stops the metal detox and goes back to storing it. Now you feel better again and symptoms go away temporarily.

i don’t know. But to me it feels more that I’m just deficient and my body is not absorbing it right.
 

Dave Clark

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Not sure where you stand on it, but from all the research I have read, glyphosate is a strong chelator, and once had a patented use for removing mineral scales out of piping. It may be worth while to trial eating strictly organic foods to see if your mineral status improves. Glyphosate preferentially kills off good bacteria in the gut, and allows pathogenic bacteria to thrive. Gut health is imperative for nutrient uptake. All commercial non-organic food is high in glyphosate.
 

IVILA

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Btw. Three years ago I took 8 mg of copper daily and copper and ceruloplasmin were still low and didn’t change after two months or so of supplementing
I read that supplemental copper doesn't impact ceruloplasmin levels. You need bioavailable copper from food. Just eat oysters twice a week.
 

Motif

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I read that supplemental copper doesn't impact ceruloplasmin levels. You need bioavailable copper from food. Just eat oysters twice a week.
I can only get canned oysters and my histamine issues get extremely bad from them


@S-VV hi! Do you have any idea how I could fix this?

i have low zinc , copper , ceruloplasmin for years.
copper never got up, even with 8 mg supplements over six weeks.
even after Eating liver twice a week over almost two months and daily cacao and often mushrooms. I did not supplement zinc while doing this.


zinc is now up the first time , but only cause I started taking zinc sulphate a week before my last blood test.
i Supplementes zinc years ago, but when I stopped taking it a few days before the test I was deficient again.


i have no idea what to do next, my only idea is that my digestion, which is super slow and weak, could cause absorption issues.
I started hcl betaine and will add some ox bile cause my fat digestion is weak too and See if it makes a change.

I‘m taking chlorophyll with copper complex now. I can’t get oysters here unfortunately.

Zinc and copper both have huge influence on my scalp itching / dermatitis / seborrhoic eczema but I can’t figure out how to balance it right. Sometimes zinc makes my scalp feel like it can breathe again for days and then it’s not working anymore. The copper does is, but it’s never perfect.

@IVILA where did you read that ?


maybe I should just take about 8 mg zinc (keep it low to not throw things off ) sulphate daily and a little copper + adding digestion support ?

@Hans any idea how to balance zinc sulphate and copper? I have cheated copper here and chlorophyll with 3 mg copper complex per tsp.
I don’t want to go too high with it.

I’ll try to take some zinc and copper and hcl betaine + ox bile and then I’ll retest in one month.
 
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youngsinatra

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One year ago I had extreme histamine intolerance after ketogenic dieting, high dose vitamin D, zinc, ascorbic acid..

Really ****88 up my whole life.. Needed to go to the clinic for 3 months due to the anxiety / panic that histamines caused.

The intolerance improved so much in 6 months. I now can drink a bottle of dry red wine with no problems.

I cleared my SIBO with anti-microbials which offered significant reduction in histamine intolerance.

I then added daily beef liver (1-2oz) to my regimen to build up my probably depleted copper stores due to high D without A, zinc supplementation and no organ meat consumption.
In that time I also added vitamin A to my supplements to make sure that the copper ingested gets loaded into ceruloplasmin.
During that time I never stopped vitamin D supplementation but kept a A : D ratio of 5:1.

For zinc, I always had quite a lot of red meat in my diet so my zinc intake was always good, maybe even high. (30-50mg from meat alone a day)
 

Motif

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I started vitamin A too two weeks ago, and camu camu a b complex , E.

i don’t know what caused my issues. I didn’t take anything before all this. Diet sucked of course, but like I said - my digestion is my only idea. It’s always been slow and bad fat digestion.

oh I had bad breathe and yellow tongue for quite some time. I took tons of stuff like grapefruit seed extract , oregano oil, even rifaximin and the list goes on. The breath/ tongue symptoms disappeared, but everything else stayed.

When I check my Cronometer I have to say it’s hard to really get good zinc and copper amounts daily when you don’t eat beef and mushrooms daily btw
 

youngsinatra

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I started vitamin A too two weeks ago, and camu camu a b complex , E.

i don’t know what caused my issues. I didn’t take anything before all this. Diet sucked of course, but like I said - my digestion is my only idea. It’s always been slow and bad fat digestion.

oh I had bad breathe and yellow tongue for quite some time. I took tons of stuff like grapefruit seed extract , oregano oil, even rifaximin and the list goes on. The breath/ tongue symptoms disappeared, but everything else stayed.

When I check my Cronometer I have to say it’s hard to really get good zinc and copper amounts daily when you don’t eat beef and mushrooms daily btw

I agree.

I eat nearly 2 lbs of lean ground beef, 50g of beef liver and two cups of cooked mushrooms everyday.

I have around 50mg of zinc and 10mg of copper.

But besides the successful histamine intolerance recovery, I still have health issues with sensitive GI tract and ***t.
 
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