Coping With Histamine, Mood, Skin Issues And Beyond

[artist]

Okay so I'm back with a mix of very good and bad experiences. I posted elsewhere about reacting badly to the liposomal C (adrenaline response) so I abandoned that within the first week. Otherwise, every morning I've been taking 1 tsp of ceylon cinnamon (to lower ammonia) and 1mg of molybdenum (to lower sulfur). I was keeping my diet overall low in sulfur without being overly paranoid. This combination seemed to pretty much completely resolve what I'd been referring to for years as my "histamine intolerance". My brain fog and anxiety went away, my skin became extra clear, my face just looked all around a million time healthier, most signs of inflammation were disappearing. I could even tolerate things like wearing perfume which had been unthinkable for the last 6-7 years. I was even eating a high starch diet with no problems.Because of all this I got emboldened to try supplementing generously with gelatin, thinking the histamine levels wouldn't be too much of a problem anymore and I could actually start getting some healing benefit. Within 2 days of starting this my health started to spiral again, culminating in a new symptom of significant pain in the veins of my feet and legs, which appeared much more visible (color wise, not bulging/varicose yet other than extra vascularity in my feet where the veins are already more prominent). I'm trying to sort though if it was only the gelatin that did this or if the other supplements might be contributing. Today the pain got so bad I started taking some oregano oil to lower endotoxin, and took some vit A, B1, and B2 to block some of the endotoxin signals as well, as I thought this would probably help lower some of the burden on my body. I'm still waiting for improvement even though it's been a good week since I took the gelatin.

Gelatin is one of the highest histamine foods there is and definitely the highest histamine food I've eaten in a long time, especially in such a massive quantity (multiple tablespoons per day for at least 4 days.) Histamine increases permeability of the veins and widens them - it could be that I basically had a histamine overflow of epic proportions but that the other supplements I'm taking prevented all of the usual symptoms from coming back in full force - without the full blown anxiety etc I wasn't getting the warning to back off the extremely gelatin until it was at the point that I was having severe symptoms that I otherwise would never see because I'd usually back off before it got to that point.

If that isn't the whole story I'm concerned that maybe the molybdenum (or even cinnamon) could be interfering with some minerals or otherwise impairing circulation/vein health somehow. But I'd been doing so well up to that point that it just seems strange. It could also be that the high starch diet finally came back to bite me, but it seems like quite a coincidence that it suddenly became a problem as soon as I took the gelatin, with no warning signs up to that point. I'm hoping it's just taking a while to stabilize, but if things don't improve I will have to reevaluate everything as the pain in my legs is alarming, and once varicose veins show up it's hard to do much about them, so I'm trying to avoid a sudden disintegration. It's frustrating to have basically finally experienced life as a normal person and then to have it ripped away very abruptly. For now I think I will lower starch, continue to keep sulfur low and see where I'm at in the next day or 2.

Edit: Upon reflecting more I think I did several things at once that caused the crash and burn. After starting with gelatin I moved to (again, large amounts of) glycine when I thought the histamine was the issue - but glycine seems to be a problem for people with sulfur intolerance in itself. (It's actually possible the glycine content was more of a problem with the gelatin than the histamine) I also tried experimenting with pea protein which should show how cocky I'd gotten, and to boot there were some herbs and things in that protein powder that I think were actually high sulfur as well (chlorella?). I also briefly ran out of molybdenum at this inopportune time. Gonna try to just get back in the saddle and hope my body evens out soon enough.

All of this was precipitated by me worrying about getting enough hq protein (since I can't have dairy etc), but at the end of the day chicken is probably the best option for me, and I don't seem to need tons of protein to feel fine.

 

[Motif]

Try any other protein powder and you will flare up too.

I tried whey and pea protein and both gave me crazy flare ups, like almost no other foods

 

[somuch4food]

I've seen pea protein as Ok in a few lists, so it might as well have been the other stuff in the powder. Chlorella is apparently high in sulfur as are most greens. I would tend to think that rice protein is safer though.

Personally, I was exploring a low histamine diet, but I will also be exploring a low sulfur diet since my sleep got really terrible this week and the only 2 things overtly different from previous weeks are asparagus and quinoa which are both supposedly high in thiols.

I've been using whey protein powder lately, but I haven't noticed it having a negative impact contrary to gelatin powder.

I think for both low histamine and low sulfur diet, you have to experiment yourself since triggers seem to vary quite a bit between individuals.

 

[Motif]

I think every protein powder is out for me.

I could try hemp and rice. Maybe casein.


Rice probably high in arsen

 

[somuch4food]

Actually, I've been having a persistent cold for 2 weeks. I just realised I started using whey powder a few days before... I've been using it every day since and the cold shows no sign of stopping.

My cold could be an allergic reaction to the whey protein powder. I will stop using it for a few days and see if my cold symptoms resolve.

Body reactions are really complicated!

 

[chrismturner89]

This interests me. I have the cbs mutations and have significant problems digesting animal protein. Everytime I overdo the animal protein my thyroid swells and i need to sleep. The thing that relieves it and brings my thyoird down is selenium. My theory is the protein increases total body sulphur which then drastically reduced selenium in the body. Any ideas on how to manage this? I need protein. B6? Does anyone know the best kind of protein to eat with this issue?

I also get nasty symptoms when incorporating too much saturated fat. Such as a kind of stick dermatitis in my ears and on my scalp. Green olives and olive oil stop this. Is it true that saturated fat increases endotoxin?

 

[somuch4food]

I also get nasty symptoms when incorporating too much saturated fat. Such as a kind of stick dermatitis in my ears and on my scalp. Green olives and olive oil stop this. Is it true that saturated fat increases endotoxin?

@Captain_Coconut made many posts about this. I do think it can. It's probably dependent on gut health.

I've seen enough contracdictions in studies and theories on the Internet that I just listen to my body.

 

[somuch4food]

My theory is the protein increases total body sulphur which then drastically reduced selenium in the body. Any ideas on how to manage this? I need protein. B6? Does anyone know the best kind of protein to eat with this issue?

Could you have ammonia build up? I've found this article an interesting read: https://drjockers.com/cbs-mutation-low-sulfur-diet/

I have not experimented enough to have an opinion on which proteins are better.

 

[Motif]

Seems like casein is what I tolerate best.

Whey and pea gives me real bad dermatitis

 

[artist]

[ @Motif @somuch4food @chrismturner89 ] I'm too scared to try any isolated dairy proteins since I definitely am bothered by dairy in general (other than butter). It will probably be one of the last things I try.
I am doing better, slowly but surely each day. I don't have any pain issues now and today I felt slightly less of that signature "hungover" feeling than I did yesterday. Can't wait to be done with this reaction.
It is very annoying to not have a good protein source, lean meats are the only thing that seems to work for me and it's not exactly convenient, especially since lunch meats etc. are out. I want to improve my body composition a bit and while low fat isn't the worst for that, the low protein is not ideal at all. Maybe more potatoes is the solution. I definitely find I feel best on a low fat diet, all else being equal, and I guess that's common for people with CBS mutation? I might try switching my fat intake to things like olive oil instead of coconut and see if that helps more too.
I appreciate everyone who has these issues weighing in, it feels like such an oddball health issue to have but it's been the most profound discovery I've had by far healthwise.

 

[artist]

Well I'm still having steadily escalating scary vein problems so I'm dropping everything. I suspect the molybdenum but it could be the cinnamon. It could even be my diet (endotoxin?) or something else. The veins in the crooks of my arms are bulging and my veins are bright green/blue and visible throughout my arms, and more visible than normal on my legs as well. The veins in the crook of my right arm are actively painful. I'm not sure why I'm having this reaction. I'm scared I've done permanent damage to myself and I'm feeling very discouraged and sad.

 

[artist]

I felt immediately much better after taking some zinc and copper so I strongly suspect that the molybdenum was more powerfully opposing/wasting these minerals (especially copper) than I expected. The main warning that comes with molybdenum supplementation is that it opposes copper and prevents absorption of iron and zinc. In the past copper supplements made me feel pretty bad, and I'd wake up feeling worse after taking them. This time I woke up feeling rested for the first time in a while, and I felt this warm fizzy feeling in my legs+arms after taking the copper and zinc. My energy and mood are much better. My veins are fluctuating in how prominent they are but the soreness is much less. Caffeine (which I usually get in doses of 400-500mg a day) definitely seemed to put me back in the hole as I reached closer to the max amount, so I'm guessing the usage of minerals was the reason. I'm laying off the molybdenum for a few days while I replenish my body (I've stopped the very low fat diet and been just eating to craving anything and everything pretty much and supplementing the minerals on top, getting plenty of meat, mixed macros, etc) My face looks awful from all the sulfur and histamine I had the last 2 days but I have to set that aside for the moment while I get my system stable again. I wonder if it wouldn't be wise for me to adopt a lower caffeine lifestyle in light of how delicate my mineral balances seem to be.

 

[artist]

In the end I think in the end my "sulfur intolerance" (and histamine intolerance) is yet another symptom of underlying gut dysbiosis. Cutting out carbs is the only thing that gives me permanent relief of symptoms without any eventual backlash. I can tolerate sulfur and a multitude of other things I'm "sensitive" to just fine on a VLC diet (or at least one with only some monosaccharide carbs like honey, etc). I feel that the cinnamon and molyb routine was basically suppressing the endotoxin symptoms only to eventually have them burst through that dam, and cause the vein issues et al (haidut has compiled information before on here about endotoxin's role in venous malformation). Unfortunately simply going "no starch" isn't enough for thorough removal of symptoms although it's far better than just saying screw it and consuming any and all carbs. When I see how my allergies, immunity, dopamine levels, voice, face, skin, energy, mental acuity, social ease, joint health, eyesight etc etc. are radically improved by going zero carb it's hard to remember why I ever deviate from this lifestyle. However eventually in the past the restrictiveness did make me feel like I was having an eating disorder relapse and I have certainly been let to believe it will shred my thyroid, mucous membranes, etc. I am going to experiment with only allowing carbs from honey and in smaller amounts and just going to a meat and veg (with perhaps hard cheeses) type diet. I just can't keep slowly damaging my body and hoping I can suppress the outer symptoms, which is what I feel all previous temporarily successful methods have been doing.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

I have very similar problems you described in the post. My 2 cents:
1. Cavities - vitamin K2 can come to rescue - I 've had cavities in half on my teeth since early teens and after using it regularly my teeth feel stronger, they're not sensitive anymore and the cavities stabilized somewhat. Don't forget calcium and Vitamin D and calcium. Although I 've had bad reactions with vitamin D. Just try to get plenty of sun and don't wash your skin a couple of hours after getting sun exposure. For calcium I use homemade powdered eggshell dissolved in vinegar along with magnesium.
2. You probably need to up your vitamin A. Try to eat a generous amount of beef or veil liver twice weekly - it's the lowest in iron out all the livers, will provide vitamin and a generous amount of copper and all the b vitamins.
3. Ray Peat raw carrot salad daily if you're not doing it already.

All the best, Vladimir.

 

[aliciahere]

Please please please, whatever you do- get yourself tested for celiac. Your family history of autoimmune diseases and stomach issues, the fact that you are better on paleo or no carbs, dairy intolerance, random weird skin issues, anxiety, histamine issues, this alll sounds like celiac. Going on a challenge is very tough (eating bread for 6 weeks), but you need to know. Celiac is so much more than just not eating bread

 

[LUH 3417]

I took pepto bismol and had black Stool by that logic I must be dealing with an overgrowth. I also notice my sweat smells like ammonia after this experiment. It has not smelled this way since my low carb experiment a few years ago. Can anyone explain the sulfur ammonia connection?

 

[LUH 3417]

In the end I think in the end my "sulfur intolerance" (and histamine intolerance) is yet another symptom of underlying gut dysbiosis. Cutting out carbs is the only thing that gives me permanent relief of symptoms without any eventual backlash. I can tolerate sulfur and a multitude of other things I'm "sensitive" to just fine on a VLC diet (or at least one with only some monosaccharide carbs like honey, etc). I feel that the cinnamon and molyb routine was basically suppressing the endotoxin symptoms only to eventually have them burst through that dam, and cause the vein issues et al (haidut has compiled information before on here about endotoxin's role in venous malformation). Unfortunately simply going "no starch" isn't enough for thorough removal of symptoms although it's far better than just saying screw it and consuming any and all carbs. When I see how my allergies, immunity, dopamine levels, voice, face, skin, energy, mental acuity, social ease, joint health, eyesight etc etc. are radically improved by going zero carb it's hard to remember why I ever deviate from this lifestyle. However eventually in the past the restrictiveness did make me feel like I was having an eating disorder relapse and I have certainly been let to believe it will shred my thyroid, mucous membranes, etc. I am going to experiment with only allowing carbs from honey and in smaller amounts and just going to a meat and veg (with perhaps hard cheeses) type diet. I just can't keep slowly damaging my body and hoping I can suppress the outer symptoms, which is what I feel all previous temporarily successful methods have been doing.

I get autoimmune symptoms with low carb (aching joints, itchiness all over) but don’t fare well digestive health wise with high carb. How have you been?

 

[artist]

I failed to disclose something potentially crucial that may actually be the cause of the alarming and rapidly worsening state of my veins. Around the same time I started the molybdenum/low sulfur/cinnamon protocol I also started using a facial sunscreen high in octinoxate as well as another chemical sunscreen, tinosorb-s. I was aware that they could have potentially estrogenic effects but completely wrote off the idea that the effects could be so profound, immediate, or acute. I stopped using the sunscreen when I noticed my veins getting strange looking as I considered it a distant 4th most likely possible cause (after starch/infection, molybdenum blocking copper, and cinnamon raising nitric oxide). When I stopped everything it seemed my veins stopped getting worse and though still visible, were not so inflamed looking, and the issue was mostly constrained to my arms, feet and hands. I had fainter veins visible through skin on my legs. After some time had passed I figured I would restart the sunscreen. After all, if I'm gonna have ugly veins I may as well have youthful skin right? Well 2 days into the sunscreen I noticed a new raised vein on my temple when I smiled, and a broken capillary (my very 1st) on my brow bone. I thought it was probably there from before, and I had also rubbed that area pretty hard as i get my worst trigger points in that area. Then came day 4 of putting the sunscreen on. Within 10 minutes I felt an acute stinging sensation on the inside of my right arm. I looked down and saw a raised vein right where the stinging was coming from, it was an oddly thin yet defined raised line. Later that day I could see in both my hands the vein that runs up my thumbs and then the side of forearms was protruding for the first time ever, and my forearms are becoming a roadmap of dark raised veins. I truly believe that it was the sunscreen causing this. It could be my flailing around with supplements (I have used ADEK, b12, b6, zinc and copper as I tried to start reversing the damage) but the severity, acuteness, timing and decidedly estrogenic quality of this symptom has me thoroughly convinced. I also have been retaining water, crying randomly and experiencing jawline hormonal acne and weird headaches for the first time in YEARS. I dont know why I missed this before or why I was so foolish to try something so unnecessary and potentially damaging as this sunscreen. I certainly seem to be paying for it much more severely than the average sunscreen user, but for me that's true of everything.

 

[revenant]

I was thinking about starting a thread of my own, but since this sounds sort of familiar, I'll post this here.

My issues:

- Occasional blurry vision and dry eyes (some days I see just fine)
- Discoid eczema on left arm near the elbow (this appeared a few weeks ago)
- Silent reflux
- Slow metabolism
- Low energy

Maybe these have different underlying reasons, or maybe they're somehow connected. I would like to hear other people's input on what might cause it and what might fix it. Things I've noticed sometimes make things worse:

- Ice cream
- Strong alcohol
- White wine

I thought my silent reflux was already gone after last summer, but late this spring it's started to make a comeback, which makes me think it might be histamine/allergy related also (I'm allergic to something in the spring definitely, itchy eyes and sneezing). Usually alcohol doesn't give me problems (except white wine nowadays), but yesterday the eczema flared up pretty bad after just one drink of gin. I was actually itchy all over for about 30 minutes. It also gives me a blurry vision in one eye.

Things I've tried:

- Baking soda daily (helps with the silent reflux at least, not sure about other symptoms)
- Eating a carrot daily (haven't noticed an effect)
- 500 mg of aspirin daily (raises my temps)
- 100 mg of niacinamide daily (maybe raises my temps)
- Vitamin E complex
- Vitamin K2

After starting the aspirin I've noticed some bruises appear seemingly from nowhere, which makes me think the aspirin and vitamin E (and maybe niacinamide?) have a blood thinning effect which could explain it. Maybe 500 mg is too much?

And then there's the usual fatique and probably issues with serotonin and estrogen and maybe thyroid, but I haven't measured them. Also thyroid supplements are prescription only here so those are unavailable to me.

Any suggestions?

 

[artist]

@revenant I recommend making another thread to get more recs. I made this thread in the logs section specifically to put all my own random thoughts in one place

I also want to mention I tested negative for celiac while on a diet that included lots of wheat so that's not it but I appreciate the suggestion.

The more I think about it and research the more I think the last few months have been a bit of a perfect storm. I'm now wondering if low vitamin D might be a factor here so that's what I'm gonna test next. I remember feeling healthy until about 2 months into life here in the NW and then hitting a bit of a wall. My diet was very low fat throughout this time and I wasn't supplementing vitamin D other than here and there.