Conversation with Ray from yesterday

[PolishSun]

You are alive because many other people were moral.

 

[Peatness]

I actually thought I did not post this, my phone glitched and I could not finish. What got me out? I failed enough to start asking questions and I always did care about the truth and other people. What I consider the main problem is the feeling that I was the body and the dominant ideology that went with it. I was a materialist so I figured the morality was not really fundamental, just some evolved thing that makes you feel good or bad to control you. I also considered myself a body with a brain, so the experience of the body was primary, not moral behaviour. As a materialist I also saw myself as separate from others.

Now there are plenty of materialists and atheists who are good people. Most of those people appear to believe in materialism in an unexamined way, so they still act as if they are part of something because their lived experience confirms that. Peat is a materialist (I think, his views seem quite nuanced), but he is also values empirical evidence before any stupid ideas he has in his head so is an incredible, moral person.

I was socially isolated and abused, so I felt separate, and I was intelligent enough to examine the implications of my views.

As a materialist, I could never find an an argument for morality. Materialists would gish-gallop all day long to explain, say, that there is a moral difference between the raping and murdering a child for pleasure, and eating an apple for pleasure. I still don't see it. The arguments were something like, "it feels good to be good (but what if you enjoy evil?, then is must be good)", "we evolved to be moral (we evolved to rape and murder too)", "we'll most people think this is good (most people liked genocide at times)" and the real argument they made: I will **** you up if you do that. There was really no argument there beyond pleasure and pain.

"Might makes Right." That is the only argument I could find behind materialist morality. I think Peat may have stated something about Nazi morality of Might Makes Right continuing after the war. They were never proven wrong, they just lost the war. This is also the view universities tend to teach. Post-modernism is a technique of literary analysis, and has become one of the dominant strains of thought on the Left. It's basic message is that it's all about power.

I'll link Chomsky here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HYe2N9dXeQ


In Influence, Cialdini noted that on average the most powerful way to influence people is to tell them "other people are like this". Tell them all their neighbours, and they'll probably do it, tell them humans are only concerned about power, and they will be far more concerned about power. And if you want to know about another person, ask them about other people. If you ask a person how much he would give to needy person, he will lie and exaggerate, this has been studied. Ask him how much the average person will give, and he will give the number he gives. If you, like many traumatized people, see other people as fundamentally predatory, only held back by the fear of retaliation, then that is your model of behaviour.

I think Jordan Peterson's lectures helped, I found him years before he was famous. He was the first person I really heard talk about Good and Evil, Right and Wrong. That there was more than the material world. His arguments for moral behaviour were fundamentally different from what I had ever heard before. Instead of "do and say what I tell you, or I will hurt you until you do" he argued that you should be moral for your own sake. It was not to control me, but to free me. To give me dignity, to have something beyond escape from pain and pursuit of pleasure. Because if you are a mere body, that is all there actually is.

From him I moved to more esoteric things. I examined materialism, and found it was empirically untenable. Plenty of science showed that things like telepathy are real. There is good and evil, they are real. Later I found out matter, OTOH is not. Funny that.

From that I could see the unity in people, though mostly intellectually. I went to Radical Honesty, and it changed my life. For the first time I could be myself, and not only was I not attacked for it, I was loved for it. Radical Honesty allowed me to see that people are good and safe, for the most part. And the evil ones, like my father, are weak, not strong like I thought.

If you read that meandering blog post, thank you. I hope it helps, best I can do now.

What an extraordinary testimonial, thank you so much for sharing. It moved me enough to see beyond my current position of outrage and anger. Interesting clips of Noam Chomsky. I can’t really comment too much on post modernism due to fear of digging myself into a hole. Social theory was a headache at university and to a certain extent a luxury at that stage in my life. In hindsight, I admit that my struggle was due to fear of being pigeon holed and to be associated with one particular group. I tried to merge ideas from disparate groups and flummoxed my lecturers. Postmodernism gave me a particular understanding of social life that I did not have at that time. Years later I can see how some of it was/is flawed just like any other school of thought. I don’t agree with Noam Chomskys dismissal of postmodernism but that does not mean I don’t value the work he has done in other areas, such as his interrogation of the media in 'manufacturing consent'. Yet am I qualified to say that? Who knows. What I am confident about is thank god I am not in university in 2021.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

What an extraordinary testimonial, thank you so much for sharing. It moved me enough to see beyond my current position of outrage and anger. Interesting clips of Noam Chomsky. I can’t really comment too much on post modernism due to fear of digging myself into a hole. Social theory was a headache at university and to a certain extent a luxury at that stage in my life. In hindsight, I admit that my struggle was due to fear of being pigeon holed and to be associated with one particular group. I tried to merge ideas from disparate groups and flummoxed my lecturers. Postmodernism gave me a particular understanding of social life that I did not have at that time. Years later I can see how some of it was/is flawed just like any other school of thought. I don’t agree with Noam Chomskys dismissal of postmodernism but that does not mean I don’t value the work he has done in other areas, such as his interrogation of the media in 'manufacturing consent'. Yet am I qualified to say that? Who knows. What I am confident about is thank god I am not in university in 2021.

Postmodernism as a lens to gain an understanding of power relations is useful. This is true for theory in general. Theory simplifies the infinite complexity of the world into a few factors to allow examination of a situation. However, postmodernism has become a life philosophy, mostly out of habit since it was used so many times by these people. Like being aggressive, or going for a smoke in the morning etc. if you spend hundreds or thousands of hours using a certain mental frame it becomes instinctual.

It came to me that perhaps people are interested in fighting darkness. Here is the thing, aggression does not really solve the problem. Love does. From a more esoteric point of view, things like ho'oponopno work, offering unconditional love to the darkness.

For practical advice, I suggest watching this:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcf8Z_01aI


It's simple persuasion.

 

[Peater]

@DButter thanks so much for sharing this

 

[Wendy B]

Hey everyone,

A conversation i shared with Ray yesterday was uploaded on YouTube and then (~six or so hours later) taken down / censored. Perhaps too much COVID "vaccine" stuff, i don't know.

Anyway, i just uploaded it on BitChute and wanted to let everyone know it's there in case you want to listen.

On BitChute:
View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/MSXLVyflPLcb/


Also on Spotify:
View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Xj9Ll9UPjprpAWUw9PRYp


(Other conversations with Ray are still listed on the Butter Living channel on YouTube; i may gradually upload all of those to BitChute, too)

Cheers,
David

I just started listening to the first 6 minutes...Ray claims some adverse events such as heart problems. Is there reference for this other than his claim of that?

 

[Vileplume]

It was interesting to hear Dr. Peat mention that much of the problems of vaccines stem from the fact that they are injected, rather than exposed to the body through the skin or respiratory system. If I understand/summarize correctly, he states that the latter systems have mechanisms that would protect us from getting damaged by the vaccines. Hopefully the same holds true for environmental exposure to the vaccine rna, in relation to getting it injected.

PS @DButter like others have mentioned, you have great listening skills as an interviewer. You don’t jolt abruptly from question to question, but rather it seems like you listen and respond to Ray. It feels more like a conversation. Well done.

Like the question “Ray, what have you not been asked, that you think we should be talking about?” What a great question.

 

[J.R.K]

Thanks.
The censorship is pathological, so many of big tech and the ruling class use the pills he advises against, nootropics, SSRI’s etc, I don’t like to wish I’ll health on anyone but they deserve it, hubris.

I have to concur, although with a heavy heart. But the saying,”as you sow so shall you reap”

 

[David PS]

I just started listening to the first 6 minutes...Ray claims some adverse events such as heart problems. Is there reference for this other than his claim of that?

Post-COVID syndrome severely damages children’s hearts; 'immense inflammation’ causing cardiac blood vessel dilation - UT Health San Antonio

Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C), believed to be linked to COVID-19, damages the heart to such an extent that some children will need lifelong monitoring and interventions, said the senior author of a medical literature review published Sept. 4 in EClinicalMedicine, a...

news.uthscsa.edu

 

[Birdie]

Postmodernism as a lens to gain an understanding of power relations is useful. This is true for theory in general. Theory simplifies the infinite complexity of the world into a few factors to allow examination of a situation. However, postmodernism has become a life philosophy, mostly out of habit since it was used so many times by these people. Like being aggressive, or going for a smoke in the morning etc. if you spend hundreds or thousands of hours using a certain mental frame it becomes instinctual.

It came to me that perhaps people are interested in fighting darkness. Here is the thing, aggression does not really solve the problem. Love does. From a more esoteric point of view, things like ho'oponopno work, offering unconditional love to the darkness.

For practical advice, I suggest watching this:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcf8Z_01aI


It's simple persuasion.

Thanks for this. Really re-arranges the insides.

 

[Birdie]

I like your interviews of Dr Peat @DButter because you let him talk. Thank you.

Yes. Good relaxed interview. Good interviewer.

 

[Giraffe]

It was interesting to hear Dr. Peat mention that much of the problems of vaccines stem from the fact that they are injected, rather than exposed to the body through the skin or respiratory system. If I understand/summarize correctly, he states that the latter systems have mechanisms that would protect us from getting damaged by the vaccines. Hopefully the same holds true for environmental exposure to the vaccine rna, in relation to getting it injected.

There were two thoughts expressed:

1. Injections by themselves carry the risk that you get polio-like symptoms.
2. When you inject a vaccine you disregard the way the immune system works, and how you would normally come in contact with the virus or bacteria. An respiratory virus for example would hit the mucous membranes in your nose or in your throat, and there are chemicals in it that can fight it off. Why would you want to inject it so the stuff ends up in your blood stream?

 

[bk_]

I actually thought I did not post this, my phone glitched and I could not finish. What got me out? I failed enough to start asking questions and I always did care about the truth and other people. What I consider the main problem is the feeling that I was the body and the dominant ideology that went with it. I was a materialist so I figured the morality was not really fundamental, just some evolved thing that makes you feel good or bad to control you. I also considered myself a body with a brain, so the experience of the body was primary, not moral behaviour. As a materialist I also saw myself as separate from others.

Now there are plenty of materialists and atheists who are good people. Most of those people appear to believe in materialism in an unexamined way, so they still act as if they are part of something because their lived experience confirms that. Peat is a materialist (I think, his views seem quite nuanced), but he is also values empirical evidence before any stupid ideas he has in his head so is an incredible, moral person.

I was socially isolated and abused, so I felt separate, and I was intelligent enough to examine the implications of my views.

As a materialist, I could never find an an argument for morality. Materialists would gish-gallop all day long to explain, say, that there is a moral difference between the raping and murdering a child for pleasure, and eating an apple for pleasure. I still don't see it. The arguments were something like, "it feels good to be good (but what if you enjoy evil?, then is must be good)", "we evolved to be moral (we evolved to rape and murder too)", "we'll most people think this is good (most people liked genocide at times)" and the real argument they made: I will **** you up if you do that. There was really no argument there beyond pleasure and pain.

"Might makes Right." That is the only argument I could find behind materialist morality. I think Peat may have stated something about Nazi morality of Might Makes Right continuing after the war. They were never proven wrong, they just lost the war. This is also the view universities tend to teach. Post-modernism is a technique of literary analysis, and has become one of the dominant strains of thought on the Left. It's basic message is that it's all about power.

I'll link Chomsky here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HYe2N9dXeQ


In Influence, Cialdini noted that on average the most powerful way to influence people is to tell them "other people are like this". Tell them all their neighbours, and they'll probably do it, tell them humans are only concerned about power, and they will be far more concerned about power. And if you want to know about another person, ask them about other people. If you ask a person how much he would give to needy person, he will lie and exaggerate, this has been studied. Ask him how much the average person will give, and he will give the number he gives. If you, like many traumatized people, see other people as fundamentally predatory, only held back by the fear of retaliation, then that is your model of behaviour.

I think Jordan Peterson's lectures helped, I found him years before he was famous. He was the first person I really heard talk about Good and Evil, Right and Wrong. That there was more than the material world. His arguments for moral behaviour were fundamentally different from what I had ever heard before. Instead of "do and say what I tell you, or I will hurt you until you do" he argued that you should be moral for your own sake. It was not to control me, but to free me. To give me dignity, to have something beyond escape from pain and pursuit of pleasure. Because if you are a mere body, that is all there actually is.

From him I moved to more esoteric things. I examined materialism, and found it was empirically untenable. Plenty of science showed that things like telepathy are real. There is good and evil, they are real. Later I found out matter, OTOH is not. Funny that.

From that I could see the unity in people, though mostly intellectually. I went to Radical Honesty, and it changed my life. For the first time I could be myself, and not only was I not attacked for it, I was loved for it. Radical Honesty allowed me to see that people are good and safe, for the most part. And the evil ones, like my father, are weak, not strong like I thought.

If you read that meandering blog post, thank you. I hope it helps, best I can do now.

Wow you and I have a lot in common. I was also a sociopathic elitist wannabe. I warn many of what will happen years ahead of time and sadly they don’t listen because they have this incredibly naive view of how the world works and a lack of perspective and experience. How I got out is a very long story but suffice it to say it involves Christ.

 

[Giraffe]

I very much enjoyed this interview. Thank you @DButter .

 

[mm33]

Hey everyone,

A conversation i shared with Ray yesterday was uploaded on YouTube and then (~six or so hours later) taken down / censored. Perhaps too much COVID "vaccine" stuff, i don't know.

Anyway, i just uploaded it on BitChute and wanted to let everyone know it's there in case you want to listen.

On BitChute:
View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/MSXLVyflPLcb/


Also on Spotify:
View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Xj9Ll9UPjprpAWUw9PRYp


(Other conversations with Ray are still listed on the Butter Living channel on YouTube; i may gradually upload all of those to BitChute, too)

Cheers,
David

Really great stuff dbutter, thanks so much for posting here.

 

[Tre]

Hey everyone,

A conversation i shared with Ray yesterday was uploaded on YouTube and then (~six or so hours later) taken down / censored. Perhaps too much COVID "vaccine" stuff, i don't know.

Anyway, i just uploaded it on BitChute and wanted to let everyone know it's there in case you want to listen.

On BitChute:
View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/MSXLVyflPLcb/


Also on Spotify:
View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3Xj9Ll9UPjprpAWUw9PRYp


(Other conversations with Ray are still listed on the Butter Living channel on YouTube; i may gradually upload all of those to BitChute, too)

Cheers,
David

Thank you for putting this video up here. It is always refreshing to hear Ray Peat's scientific mind. I am so disappointed that in the new culture we live in, thoughts contrary to mainstream thinking are suppressed.

 

[Peatness]

Postmodernism as a lens to gain an understanding of power relations is useful. This is true for theory in general. Theory simplifies the infinite complexity of the world into a few factors to allow examination of a situation. However, postmodernism has become a life philosophy, mostly out of habit since it was used so many times by these people. Like being aggressive, or going for a smoke in the morning etc. if you spend hundreds or thousands of hours using a certain mental frame it becomes instinctual.

It came to me that perhaps people are interested in fighting darkness. Here is the thing, aggression does not really solve the problem. Love does. From a more esoteric point of view, things like ho'oponopno work, offering unconditional love to the darkness.

For practical advice, I suggest watching this:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcf8Z_01aI


It's simple persuasion.

A very compelling film, amazing achievement. Thank you for posting it. It has shifted my thinking. It’s easy to fall into despair when one thinks about the future, even the ‘now’ seems unstable. Regarding the film, I do think it’s more than simple persuasion. Delving back into his history it’s seems his early life experience plays a part in his willingness to negotiate without judgement. There is an openness to him which would be hard to possess with a ‘broken’ history. The love the openness he demonstrates to his subjects, for want of a better term, is not unconditional. I don’t know if there is such a thing as unconditional love. There are always conditions implicit or otherwise. However, if you have or do experience unconditional love then you are very lucky.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

A very compelling film, amazing achievement. Thank you for posting it. It has shifted my thinking. It’s easy to fall into despair when one thinks about the future, even the ‘now’ seems unstable. Regarding the film, I do think it’s more than simple persuasion. Delving back into his history it’s seems his early life experience plays a part in his willingness to negotiate without judgement. There is an openness to him which would be hard to possess with a ‘broken’ history. The love the openness he demonstrates to his subjects, for want of a better term, is not unconditional. I don’t know if there is such a thing as unconditional love. There are always conditions implicit or otherwise. However, if you have or do experience unconditional love then you are very lucky.

Unconditional love is simple. Not easy. I actually had a Black Swan practice group over zoom with couple of people but they quit. It's really easy if you practice a bit.

 

[Nemo]

Hopefully the same holds true for environmental exposure to the vaccine rna, in relation to getting it injected.

I think it would except that they put the RNA in nanoparticles disguised as exosomes for the express purpose of using natural endocytosis to spread the poison.

 

[Wendy B]

Post-COVID syndrome severely damages children’s hearts; 'immense inflammation’ causing cardiac blood vessel dilation - UT Health San Antonio

Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C), believed to be linked to COVID-19, damages the heart to such an extent that some children will need lifelong monitoring and interventions, said the senior author of a medical literature review published Sept. 4 in EClinicalMedicine, a...

news.uthscsa.edu

wait, i thought he was saying the vaccines cause the prob not the covid illness causes it. (?)