Controlled Opposition, Left Vs Right

Discussion in 'Political Talk, Alternative World Theories' started by MatheusPN, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    Controlled opposition. "Lefties" who say:
    I am a "feminist", commonly, stimulates hate against man
    I am a left "anti"-racist, commonly stimulate hate against non-blacks and principally against whites or promotes colorism/ segregation
    I am a "left-wing" are mostly anti-left, the "liberals"
    I am "egalitarian", mostly promotes authoritarianism, are against free will and individuality.
    I "challenge" the status quo, mostly cultivates the status quo together with their "opposition".

    The "liberals" are very effective in being the controlled opposition, they attract tons of disdain for any genuine left ideal, they exceed at generating terrible reputation to the left, they misrepresent the left.
    The left before was seen as the culture very inclined to act, like the Punks, historically the left were the revolutionaries, they were against the authorities.
    Typically people from the right confuses lefties with "liberals", using this logic someone can say that any right-wing is a Klansmen, a Nazi, a black supremacist, a Wahhabist and a Trumpboy

    The right and the "left" distorts what egalitarianism means.
    Who agrees that our action should be against the authoritarians?
    Who thinks that promoting anti-hierarchism is a good thing?
    And how you would define the right and the left?
     
  2. orewashin

    orewashin Member

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    Most people believe that democrats are lefties and republicans are righties. Unfortunately, they are never taught up and down, namely libertarianism and authoritarianism. America was built on classical liberalism, which is libertarianism that's neither left nor right.
     
  3. raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    Have you ever read the rebel by Albert Camus? He makes a distinction between rebellion and revolution. In his words, revolution always leads to totalitarianism and greater power for the state, whereas rebellion is genuine human action.
     
  4. theoccident

    theoccident Member

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    Yes 100% correct on the "up" and "down". I am curious on where most people who frequent this forum would fall on the political compass.

    https://www.politicalcompass.org

    My guess from listening to Dr. Peat, his lifestyle and region, I would say he falls on the libertarian left.
     
  5. OP
    MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    Never read, wow long time that I read anything from Camus!
    I think I know where you are going, that any revolutionary isn't a true egalitarian, because they can start and have the left ideal but they wouldn't achieve that ideal since the ends don't justify the means
    You make a useful perspective Rasputin!

    Definitely agree that "rebellion is a genuine human action", I rebel therefore I exist!
    I wouldn't say that would always lead to totalitarianism since a valid and decisive rebellion nowadays would bring a revolution, but yeah starting as a revolutionary require coercion, aiming at the supremacy of an ideal. So definitely the basis should be to rebel, a rebellion is much more coherent and stable as perceive, think, act is.

    A revolutionary is estrogenic and a rebellious is progestogenic? Hahaha
     
  6. OP
    MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    I agree with you @orewashin and will add that, now we have left and right libertarianism. The libertarians are originally the anarchists, the social libertarians.
    Exists lots of categorizations for the political spectrum, some even in 3D with multiple layers. I consider that left aims egalitarianism, are the egalitarian and right is pro-hierarchy. So I would say now that both parties in the US are from the right entirely


    For people inclined to the left side, I really like this to categorize in which political spectrum you most
    sympathize: LeftValues
     
  7. OP
    MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    @Soren @kyle @inurendotoxin
    @Energizer @Drareg
    I was to post in you thread JP recovery, feel free to reply there, I posted here because it's about Controlled Opposition jahah

    Jordan Peterson
    He constantly hostileze Marxism, and he clearly disfigures it, "post-modernism Marxism". He clearly doesn't know both philosophies or is distorting them; evidently, he is misleading people!

    He misrepresents what Marxism and post-modernism are, he frequently conflates that with liberals, SJW, feminists, left etc! He attacks, he misrepresents, he conflates the "left" with his "post-modernism" nonsense

    He doesn't comprehend these two very famous philosophes, which he continuously is hostile or he is part of the controlled opposition? Easily we have an answer for what is most likely
     
  8. Energizer

    Energizer Member

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    @MatheusPN
    Yeah I would agree with that about Peterson being controlled opposition.

    "The right and the "left" distorts what egalitarianism means.

    Who agrees that our action should be against the authoritarians?
    Who thinks that promoting anti-hierarchism is a good thing?
    And how you would define the right and the left?"

    Generally speaking, I would say left-wing politics supports social equality, opposes the idea of hierarchy, opposes division between people in different classes. Right wing politics basically supports social inequality, class division, hierarchy, and class hegemony. Opposing hierarchy, supporting true egalitarianism, and criticism of authoritarianism basically leads you to anarchist philosophy, which pretty much is the ideal society, imo.

    The caveat is people in this new society or societies, have to respect some kind of principles or ethics, for example, the Golden Rule of "treat others the way you'd like to be treated", or something like it, would be necessary for such a society to exist prosperously. When people have been conditioned so long to think anarchism is impossible it requires some sort of collective maturation I think before humanity can reach that stage. People often have a knee-jerk reaction with anarchism, thinking it means a society without rules, when in reality it means a society without rulers. Rules can be informal and agreed upon by the group.

    Communism, second best to anarchism, has some form of hierarchy but dictatorship of the proletariat, but is arguably better than the oligarchy that tends to form in a so-called "liberal democracy" of the Democrat-Republican electoral system as is the case in the US. The central defining feature of evolution, to me, is cooperation. And true cooperation would lead to abundance of natural resources, instead of artificial scarcity as is the case of capitalism. In a world of abundance, with everyone having shelter and plenty of quality food to eat, and not being forced into indentured slavery, it would free up everyone's time and energy to thrive in leisurely pursuit of their own interests.

    Your post reminded me of this quote by Ray:
     
  9. commas

    commas Member

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    what ive noticed is that no matter if someone is on the right or left, if they are angry, generally they have a large ego and some sort of unhappiness with themselves, which shows some sort of authoritarian tendencies. I think people use different political movements to grasp for any feelin of power they can get to feed the ego
     
  10. raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    The way health care and established medicine reduces sickness and health to a specialized terminology and protocol, is similar to the way the general culture reduces complicated and nuanced distinctions between social movements, thoughts, individual writings and discoveries. I love RP for constantly reminding us how complex life is, and when we adapt a complex world view, everything changes.
     
  11. raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    Pierre Clastres work with the Guayaki is very interesting too. I think it informed some of the French left in the 60s and 70s.
    Society Against the State
     
  12. OP
    MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    Yes, I agree with you @Energizer, to people really start reliable and strong communities, we should start by stopping seeing people and things as commodities.
    In the actual culture of relationships, most people use someone for years, without consent, just for pleasure and then leave, using them as a commodity. A culture were even relations is seen as a type of market is dangerously ugly!

    Compassion and love is essential, unfortunately, capitalism tends to destroy all that sense of community, of humanity, compassion

    Wow Ray said that!? This is very heartwarming!!
    "The injustice that would disappear along with government is pervasive, and people will be very busy discovering who they are and what they want to do and become."
    Thanks, man. That can epitomize very well
     
  13. Drareg

    Drareg Member

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    I watched 1 video of JP and read some interviews when he was being hyped, he’s another clown, limited hangout. He was obviously making a lot of money with his information and continued on with it.
    Does he ever talk about social class and the financial system in depth or is it always fuel/information for culture war fires, what side was he on again ? The Christian Right leaning?
     
  14. OP
    MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    Oh great, your thread prompted this thread.So It Begins, The Propaganda Purge?
    Remarkable how you sum up sharply. He never goes deep into class and the financial system. He distorts the left and then chiefly change the theme and says something obvious as "clean your room".

    I assumed right, Jordan is a moral elitist,
    "On hierarchy as necessary for value and purpose". “What’s happening on the radical Left end of the spectrum, is that there’s a concerted effort to criticize the structure of current hierarchy,” said Dr. Peterson, “and maybe to criticize the idea of the hierarchy itself, to consider the West and capitalistic structures as fundamentally as oppressive patriarchies. -Jordan Peterson

    "Clear your run before talking about politics" he is a hypocrite
     
  15. Energizer

    Energizer Member

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    @MatheusPN Yeah, true. It definitely is an uphill battle to fight against prevailing attitudes and culture, but the generations before us in some places had that mindset, you see it especially in communist countries and even formerly communist countries, this idea (and nostalgia) of people looking out for each other, being cheerful despite all odds, not fearing each other. If we can just "lead by example" with a good attitude, a sense of solidarity with our fellow humans, against capital, it's contagiousu. Similar to how someone with authoritarian tendencies can freeze up a whole room, the opposite could also be the case -- the one who dares resist immoral laws and doesn't bow to authority, for example. When others see this they follow suit. As Ray said this is probably easier to kindle in regions where the citizenry don't take tyranny lightley, Russia for example and Western Latin America.

    @raysputin Nice find, thanks. That's an excellent critique of modern work.
     
  16. Drareg

    Drareg Member

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    Just thinking out loud-

    This hierarchical theory is based on bastardized versions of Darwins work and religions, the cult of genetics also, genes as governor etc ,the belief that the queen in a nest of ants "controls" is nonsense , they are reproducers not necessarily dictators , they have an importance just as the workers do, the ants function more like one mind.
    I think hierarchy is a lens of perception, a projection onto reality, it implies authority as a necessity. Is the family unit a hierarchy or a "unit", I think the origins of word unit implied undivided whole. How did the child come from a man and woman in the hierarchical sense?
    Hierarchy is originally a word that came from religions with authoritarian leanings and Peterson is a practicing Christian I believe?

    Reality is more analogy and metaphor, hierarchy is an analogy of authoritarianism , purpose is already present as function, what you value is biased toward energetic resources guided by the principle of least action acquiring said resources so as to maximize energetic output.
    Peterson is part of a social hierarchy that is authoritarian and he benefits from this, tenure, he wants to maximize his energetic resources with the least effort, this means maintaining the status quo, the extremes arising are mostly poor people and middle income kids also, the middle income kids had expectations of a certain life based on a certain level of energy expenditure, it now requires more energy expenditure to get those things because the "hierarchy" are siphoning off the resources in the form of money. The positions in the hierarchy are not there and we have an abundance of candidates, the only positions left are servants of the hierarchy you aspired to be.
    This is a form of stress, serotonin increases,estrogen etc and violent behavior accordingly, the violent behavior is also guided by the principle of least action to re-acquire energetic resources, it’s easier to kill and destroy than to negotiate the current systems in place.

    The hierarchy is an incoherent pattern of human behavior, it’s a cancer that Peterson perceives as good, this cancer is growing slowly so the likes of Peterson think it’s an organ in the body as essential to life.

    I think he is authoritarian and hides behind verbosity, the pills he was taking and his breakdown explain his perceptions.

    Do schizophrenics believe they have a hierarchy of voices in their head? Sometimes they do but it’s really one mind.
     
  17. OP
    MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    Very nice way to put it about the relationship of the queen and the ants, they are like an organism, just without a unified body. It is an attractive way to imagine our bodies...
    Sometimes the female, workers of wasps kill their queen when she isn't good/ beneficial to the colony or themselves

    "Reality is more analogy and metaphor, hierarchy is an analogy of authoritarianism, the purpose is already present as function." Yeah man, a good way to perceive! This reasoning I really comprehended, refined thanks to Ray! And something that @raysputin loves about him, its never late to porsue your love ;)

    This brings more clarity to Peterson's persona, he has a mentality analogous to a psychopath. People consider him logical, even with his hypocrisy, even with his political and philosophical distortions; he is generally the most stoic and rational at conversations, he is also very good at persuading people. His fame is from being a mentor that males follow, and that knows what a man should do. (Psychopaths are more related to stupidity and madness than to intelligence)

    Also like a psychopath, he, assisting the status quo is generating wealth and prominence to himself, while benefiting the oppressive elite, at the cost of humanity.
    It already has impacted him and his family negatively, long term it will be worse.
    IDK, about his faith I also heard little from him, what I did/ read was more of the same, mostly half-truths.

    Not I, when I was young, principally when I realized about the worker-life, around 3/ 4, I aspired to be a kid endlessly, who would venture, do sports and and be a punisher.

    The analogies you made are joyful! Was very pleasant and humorous to read. Thanks for the new insights!
     
  18. raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    I’d totally date ray’s son if he had one.
     
  19. OP
    MatheusPN

    MatheusPN Member

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    I was expecting he had a polyamorous daughter. :smirk:
    H doesn't have even a daughter? I truly hope he has. If don't then I would be very curious why not...
     
  20. Amarsh213

    Amarsh213 Member

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    Corporate Duopoly:
    (left)Soft Neo-liberals Vs (right)Hard Neo liberals
    Fox vs Wolf

    Neliberalism:
    The ideology that dare not speak it's name is actually a New, More Dangerous, Form of Corporatism. It is completely and intentionally based on lies, on deception. In reality this "religion of freedom" (redefinition of the meaning of the word "freedom" and sophisticated speculation on it is at the center of neoliberal religion) is a coercive cult enforced by corrupt, deceitful financial oligarchy with the explicit goal of milking the common people (aka "deplorables"). They have money to hire intellectual prostitutes (aka professors of economics) to do the dirty job of creating elaborate mathness and neoclassic economy based smoke screen over the lies
     
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