Control Pause Question

[m_arch]

So it seems that your metabolsim works fine in peat terms. Out of curiousity, why then do you want to improve your CP?

I'm curious as to why my CP is so low, buteyko often talks about having a CP under 20 seconds as dangerous.

Well this is some new info....
according to buteyko's chart, ETCO2 and control pause should correlate with one another (this is different to what artour rakihmov says, where he has an article about how etco2 isn't a good measurement):

If alveolar is the same as etco% kPa (my assumption, I assume strong correlation), then I should have a 40-50 second control pause.
Well, my 'control pause' (comfortable pause time) is around 10 seconds. However I measured my maximum pause as 60 seconds today... which would correlate to 5.5% which is about right. My pulse is also around 65 and my %kPa is 5.5 to 6.0, so perhaps they are not so different and for some reason or another I just have an unusually bad ability to do a control pause.

 

[Ahanu]

I'm curious as to why my CP is so low,

How do you measure?
Do you take 10 minutes rest before CP?

 

[m_arch]

How do you measure?
Do you take 10 minutes rest before CP?

Not usually that long, more like 5 minutes rest, but before getting out of bed in the morning I only get 10 seconds still.

 

[tara]

From what I know, it seems that more co2 the better.

I don't think it' strictly true that the more the better - I think there is such a thing as too much. But for most people it's not easy to get too that point unless they are forced beyond their own control. There can also be issues for some people with increasing CO2 too fast.

 

[Such_Saturation]

The last air out of the lungs should approach 6% CO2, but with a continuous recorder you can calibrate it to make a correspondence between normal breathing and the forced expiration. The liters per minute don’t matter at all, except for estimating your metabolic rate, if you know the percentage of CO2. Some of the Buteyko people have mistakenly focused on the ventilation rate, forgetting that it’s meaningful only when you know the thyroid status…..Yes, when thyroid supports a higher metabolic rate, the increased CO2 is preventing physiological hyperventilation, in the sense of breathing so much that the amount of CO2 in the body is decreased. Slow breathing hypothyroid people, and many athletes with a slow heart rate, are really hyperventilating in the physiological sense, and are likely to have elevated lactate in the blood, displacing CO2.

 

[dd99]

I think you can still build more tolerance to It. From what I know, it seems that more co2 the better. As long as sp02 isn't going too low, say under 94%

At rest in the evening, my sp02 is 94%. Is that a good sign?

For the past month, I have been focusing on nose breathing at all times (a bit of tape on my mouth at night, too) and bag breathing three to five times a day, just until discomfort (which was a sp02 of 90% when I checked).

 

[haidut]

I think a good objective test would be the methylene blue test we talked about. I have been seeing results from very healthy, young people where their urine turns blue even from very low doses MB. Some sick people I know cannot get their urine blue even from 50mg - 100mg oral doses MB. Don't you think that would be suggestive of high lactate - i.e. the quick utilization of MB and thus all of it gets quickly reduced and gets excreted colorless? If CO2 levels are high, tissue oxygen saturation is also high and methylene blue is not needed to function as an alternative electron acceptor, so the MB gets excreted unreduced and in its original blue color. Anything wrong with that reasoning?

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think a good objective test would be the methylene blue test we talked about. I have been seeing results from very healthy, young people where their urine turns blue even from very low doses MB. Some sick people I know cannot get their urine blue even from 50mg - 100mg oral doses MB. Don't you think that would be suggestive of high lactate - i.e. the quick utilization of MB and thus all of it gets quickly reduced and gets excreted colorless? If CO2 levels are high, tissue oxygen saturation is also high and methylene blue is not needed to function as an alternative electron acceptor, so the MB gets excreted unreduced and in its original blue color. Anything wrong with that reasoning?

I think it works out, it will be cool to test different ages and put them on a graph... or maybe it could be kidney function I don't know.

 

[haidut]

I think it works out, it will be cool to test different ages and put them on a graph... or maybe it could be kidney function I don't know.

You mean kidney function affects MB redox state or excretion ability? Yeah, I will try to get some results plotted and maybe even get some people to test bicarbonate levels to see if there is any correlation indeed.

 

[Such_Saturation]

You mean kidney function affects MB redox state or excretion ability? Yeah, I will try to get some results plotted and maybe even get some people to test bicarbonate levels to see if there is any correlation indeed.

I mean how quickly it gets excreted.

 

[haidut]

I mean how quickly it gets excreted.

Yeah, but why would that completely prevent the change in urine color? If these people did not excrete much then the build up of MB would eventually lead to uncoupling and/or serotonergic symptoms. They did not notice such symptoms.
Anyways, there is only one way to know for sure - take MB and some blood work. I'll see what I can get in terms of data.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Yeah, but why would that completely prevent the change in urine color? If these people did not excrete much then the build up of MB would eventually lead to uncoupling and/or serotonergic symptoms. They did not notice such symptoms.
Anyways, there is only one way to know for sure - take MB and some blood work. I'll see what I can get in terms of data.

Well from one dose there is no way to tell, maybe it's going out really slowly...

 

[m_arch]

I think a good objective test would be the methylene blue test we talked about. I have been seeing results from very healthy, young people where their urine turns blue even from very low doses MB. Some sick people I know cannot get their urine blue even from 50mg - 100mg oral doses MB. Don't you think that would be suggestive of high lactate - i.e. the quick utilization of MB and thus all of it gets quickly reduced and gets excreted colorless? If CO2 levels are high, tissue oxygen saturation is also high and methylene blue is not needed to function as an alternative electron acceptor, so the MB gets excreted unreduced and in its original blue color. Anything wrong with that reasoning?

What would you consider a low dose to turn he urine blue?

 

[m_arch]

At rest in the evening, my sp02 is 94%. Is that a good sign?

For the past month, I have been focusing on nose breathing at all times (a bit of tape on my mouth at night, too) and bag breathing three to five times a day, just until discomfort (which was a sp02 of 90% when I checked).

Yeah that sounds pretty good. Whats your control pause?

 

[haidut]

What would you consider a low dose to turn he urine blue?

The dose mentioned by Ray and used by most longevity studies - i.e. ~1mg daily.

 

[dd99]

Yeah that sounds pretty good. Whats your control pause?

Some mornings it's 17 or 18 seconds, most mornings around 20 and my best is 25.

I was mainly asking about my spo2, because you said 'as long as spo2 doesn't go too low, say below 94%' - and I'm at 94!

 

[Xisca]

I agree. As others have said, there are ways to increase CP by reducing metabolism. I see no reason not to pick out the useful parts of the method and skip the the most anti-metabolic ones.

What a surprise!
I have a reasonably good CP, between 20 and 30 even now that I am still not totally out of an ORL infection, and I come to the conclusión that I have a reduced metabolism....
I have to find how to make it rise.

 

[m_arch]

Some mornings it's 17 or 18 seconds, most mornings around 20 and my best is 25.

I was mainly asking about my spo2, because you said 'as long as spo2 doesn't go too low, say below 94%' - and I'm at 94!

Honestly I don't know the exact mechanism personally, but there were a few posts around here when I went searching into it a few months ago which said that around 94% was ideal. If you get under 90% consistently and without intentionally trying, I think it might be because you have respitory problems - but it doesn't sound like this is the case for you.

 

[dd99]

Honestly I don't know the exact mechanism personally, but there were a few posts around here when I went searching into it a few months ago which said that around 94% was ideal. If you get under 90% consistently and without intentionally trying, I think it might be because you have respitory problems - but it doesn't sound like this is the case for you.

Thanks, man.

 

[Xisca]

Why is the controlled pause done after expiration rather than inhalation?

I think it makes the exercise more natural! After all, what you want is to know when your body will naturally want to breath IN, so it makes sense to wait for this moment after breathing OUT, don't you think so?