Control Pause Question

Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
How do we know a long control pause is brought on by good carbon dioxide tolerance rather than just a very low rate of production of carbon dioxide? Thanks.
 

Ahanu

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
432
Maybe by measuring other parameters. If u have a control pause say about 15 and you improve to say 30 but your temps and heartrate are still the same then you may have improved your carbon dioxide tolerance.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
8,128
low rate of CO2 = low CP.

Higher CO2 allows more oxygenation of tissues = longer CP.

Lower CO2 production allows less oxygenation, tissue hypoxia, and low CP.
 

Such_Saturation

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
But the breathing instinct is triggered by carbon dioxide sensors, not by cellular oxygenation.
 

Ahanu

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
432
But the breathing instinct is triggered by carbon dioxide sensors, not by cellular oxygenation.
And thats why one need to get to the "airhunger" in the buteyko exercise.
 

Such_Saturation

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
And thats why one need to get to the "airhunger" in the buteyko exercise.

Yeah I guess that's the only way to be sure you're filled with carbon dioxide... but maybe if one is all glycolysis he could use up oxygen before even raising carbon dioxide... and get air hunger from oxygen sensors...
 

Ahanu

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
432

Such_Saturation

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
It is a kind of backup system I think.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
8,128
exhalation gives you your body's response to its existing CO2 stores without the benefit of the oxygen from the lungs.
 

Such_Saturation

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
It would be the same it would just take longer... but I guess it helps standardize results across different lung volume to body ratio.
 

Peater Piper

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
684
But we're blowing out the excess carbon dioxide with the exhalation, aren't we? I recall reading that decreasing lung volume through exhalation allows CO2 to passively diffuse into the blood, so I guess even blowing out all that CO2 still allows it to rise faster than after a full inhalation. Anyway, I've done the standard Buteyko breath holding exercise, but I still like holding the inhale sometimes instead. I've noticed I can get down to a couple inhalations per minute and continue pretty comfortably that way, assuming I'm inactive. Perhaps it's doing no good, though.
 

Ahanu

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
432
There may be a problem because holding breath after Inhalation is linked to a stress "state" and also the CP is meant as a measurement only not a exercise to raise co2
 

Peater Piper

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
684
Okay, well I'll abandon the inhalation holds then. When I do the pauses on exhalation I typically only go 5 to 10 seconds at a time for each hold, it's not a full CP which would be longer.

 

m_arch

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
483
Location
Perth, Australia
How do we know a long control pause is brought on by good carbon dioxide tolerance rather than just a very low rate of production of carbon dioxide? Thanks.

My take away is to check ETCO2 / morning temperature for good metabolism (which indicates good co2 production) whilst at the same time checking CP. Ideally have high in both.
I think where Peat disagrees with Buteyko is that you're right, control pause can get higher with a reduction in metabolism. But you want a high metabolism too.

a recent email response from Peat:

"Lots of the Buteyko people are now using devices, essentially tubes to increase the dead space, which I think are more practical than the timing method. Since metabolic rates vary tremendously, unless there’s a device to measure the end tidal CO2, it’s hard to tell whether a person’s CO2 retention is increasing, or their metabolic rate is decreasing. My end tidal CO2 is typically about 6%, while I’m breathing much faster than average, using much more oxygen. Breathing in a bag, or sitting in a plastic bag or bathtub full of CO2 (it’s heavier than air, so it stays in), is another way to get the body to adapt to a higher CO2. When someone’s tissues are loaded with the antithyroid polyunsaturated fatty acids, it’s a long process to get their lactate production down, CO2 production and retention up.

Eur J Clin Invest. 1989 Feb;19(1):65-71.
Adenosine receptor mediated stimulation of ventilation in man.
Jonzon B(1), Sylvén C, Beermann B, Brandt R.
(1)Department of Clinical Pharmacology, Huddinge University Hospital, Stockholm,
Sweden.
We wanted to examine how adenosine stimulates ventilation in man. Bolus doses of
adenosine were given i.v. in an antebrachial vein in multiples of 2.65 mg. The
minute ventilation was increased by adenosine 5.3 to 15.9 mg (median values) from
control 12.6 +/- 1.9 l min-1 to 42.5 +/- 4.7 l min-1 in a dose-dependent manner.
The adenosine receptor antagonist theophylline, 58.3 +/- 3.3 (mean +/- SEM) mumol
l-1 plasma, inhibited the response by approximately 25%.
Dipyridamole 10 mg, an
adenosine uptake blocker, enhanced the effect of adenosine by approximately 60%.
The ventilation was not affected by metoprolol, atropine, naloxone or cromolyn
sodium but was attenuated by hyperventilation. The respiratory stimulation
started before chest pain and cardiovascular effects such as AV-block were
encountered. It is concluded that this respiratory stimulation shows
characteristics of adenosine receptor mediated responses but the location of such
adenosine receptors is uncertain. The findings are compatible with a stimulatory
or facilitating effect of adenosine on afferent pathways."
 

m_arch

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
483
Location
Perth, Australia
low rate of CO2 = low CP.
Higher CO2 allows more oxygenation of tissues = longer CP.
Lower CO2 production allows less oxygenation, tissue hypoxia, and low CP.
I've found that this isn't how it works.

Artour at normal breathing says that buteyko practitioners often score low on ETCO2.

I follow Peat principals and have a high metabolism, my ETCO2 is between 5.7-6% (the normal being from 4-6% kPa), however my CP is low around 10-12 seconds.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,273
Yeah I guess that's the only way to be sure you're filled with carbon dioxide... but maybe if one is all glycolysis he could use up oxygen before even raising carbon dioxide... and get air hunger from oxygen sensors...
Speculating: If CO2 gets low, cells are more likely to be in hypoxic conditions, therefore more likely to go to glycolysis, which produces less CO2, continuing the reinforcing cycle. This could well be part of what makes it hard to get out of (along with lowered CO2 set point when it gets chronic).
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
8,128
I've found that this isn't how it works.

Artour at normal breathing says that buteyko practitioners often score low on ETCO2.

I follow Peat principals and have a high metabolism, my ETCO2 is between 5.7-6% (the normal being from 4-6% kPa), however my CP is low around 10-12 seconds.

This may be true but it isn't what buteyko or Artour teach. They emphasize the cp as the primary way to measure results in increasing co2 levels and therefore better tissue oxygenation. I studied under Artour for quite awhile.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
U Buteyko Control Pause And Temperature Sweet Spot? CO2, Bag Breathing 20
m_arch Control Pause, Maximum Pause, Heart Rate And CO2 CO2, Bag Breathing 22
Drareg American Universities under foreign Control Society 0
M F*** Portion Control supplements for free in canada Digestion 20
E Boris Johnson Population Control Society 52
Z Low Progesterone Coming Off Birth Control Female Issues 0
fever257 Cortisol - Getting It Under Control Ask For Help or Advice 10
E Bald Guy Regrows Hair With Birth Control Pills Hair & Nails 304
Drareg YouTube Censoring Is Out Of Control Society 49
T Can Anyone Review Nate Hatch's F*ck Portion Control "cure For Baldness"? Hair & Nails 18
Giraffe Appeal Against A World Government Beyond All Control Political Talk, Alternative World Theories 45
Drareg Covid-19: Control Of Disease Act 1984 United Kingdom Viruses, Parasites, Fungus, Vaccines 1
Y 15 Year Old Pentagon Video Discussing Engineering Vaccines To Control Humans Ask For Help or Advice 5
TheBeard Birth Control Pills Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
Peatogenic If Endotoxin Isn't Under Control, Can't Anti Estrogen/cortisol Efforts Actually Increase Them? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 35
Peatogenic Does The Endocrine System Control The Nervous System? Ask For Help or Advice 1
Mauritio Birth Control Shrinks The Brain ! Scientific Studies 12
hiconscience Female Body On Birth Control Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 13
RWilly An Early-morning, Carb-filled Meal Improves Glycemic Control Among Diabetics, TAU Researchers Say Scientific Studies 0
L Possible (but Painful) Way To Get Around The Accumulating Birth Control In Water Toxins, Detoxification 2
Cameron The Mainstream Is Acknowledging The Destruction Of Women From Birth Control Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 18
YamnayaMommy Peaty Birth Control? Plus Libido Of Lactating Female Female Issues 20
A Detoxing From Birth Control Pills? Ask For Help or Advice 3
E Research Shows Significant Effect Of Lion's Mane Extracts On Endurance And Weight Control Scientific Studies 0
A A New Randomized Control Trial Finds That Estradiol Improves The Symptoms Of Schizophrenia In Women Scientific Studies 15
Lokzo 5α-reductase 2 Deficiency Leads To Reduced Dominance-related And Impulse-control Behaviors Scientific Studies 1
M How Do I Get Back The Silk Straight Hair I Had When I Was On A Combination Birth Control? Female Issues 7
bzmazu For Your Health, Control Your Anger Mental Issues 1
haidut Birth Control (BC) Pills With Estrogen Cause Abortion, Not Contraception Scientific Studies 7
Cameron Birth Control Makes Woman Fat Dumb And Unattractive Uncreative Female Issues 8
D Protest E Birth Control Hair Loss Ask For Help or Advice 4
A Help! I Need To Control My Kynurenic Acid Level Ask For Help or Advice 38
L It Takes Two To Tango: NAD+ And Sirtuins In Aging/longevity Control B3/Niacinamide 0
T Any Ladies Back To Normal After Coming Off Birth Control? My GF Is Putting On Weight Fast Female Issues 15
J Birth Control Caused Me To Go Crazy. I Feel I'm Going To Die Of Heart Attack Mental Issues 20
W Reduce Xt An Advanced Cortisol Control Agent Cortisol, Serotonin, Histamine 1
J To What Degree Does Self Control Exist, If At All? The Illusion Of Free Will Ask For Help or Advice 19
cellboy Is It Dangerous To Have Intercourse With Someone Who‘s On Birth Control? Male Issues 0
Lokzo COROSOLIC ACID - Glucose Control, Insulin Sensitivity, Cortisol Lowering Blood Sugar 35
T Chamomile Tea May Control Diabetes, Professor Says Scientific Studies 0
Cirion Normal To Have Out Of Control Appetite When New To Peat? Diet 3
theLaw New Book : **** Portion Control From Nathan Guy Hatch Blogs 110
P Low Dose Doxycycline Decreases Systemic Inflammation And Improves Glycemic Control, Lipid Profiles, Articles & Scientific Studies 5
haidut Birth Control (BC) Pills Increase Suicide Risk By More Than 300% Scientific Studies 65
Sam Suska Best Way To Get Off Birth Control For 15+ Years Ask For Help or Advice 9
L 5-HT2A Receptors Control Body Temperature In Mice During LPS-induced Inflammation Via Regulation Of Scientific Studies 2
Adnada "Natural Cycles" Birth Control App And Progesterone Use Female Issues 2
P Effects On Impulse Control Cyproheptadine 5
AretnaP Insults, And Focus On People, Rather Than People's Ideas, Is Used To Control You Society 2
bionicheart Thyroid, Progesterone &/or Oral Birth Control To Shrink Uterine Fibroids Blood Work, Labs 7

Similar threads

Top