Control Pause, Maximum Pause, Heart Rate And CO2

Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
104
According to Buteyko's chart:

pulmonary-ventilation-criteria.jpg


high etco2 should correlate with a high control pause and maximum pause. So they shouldn't be fighting against one another.
Maybe a person with a high etco2 is better off measuring their maximum pause (I get 60 seconds) as a better measurement. with a 60 second max pause I should have a control pause of 40, but i'm getting 10. unless i'm doing it wrong. but it makes sense because of the increased respitory rate of a high metabolism.

To all who want to participate - what is your maximum pause? does this correlate to your control pause as per the graph? what about heart rate? and co2 measurement (if you have one).

I'm someone who's studied and practised this technique extensively.

I want to say, there's huge variance. I was able to extend my maximum pause to 7 times my CP simply by doing a lot of them and using will power. I had an MP of 130 with a CP of 20. But to my dismay this training did not positively impact my automatic breathing rate. A less strenuous, less will power orientated approach was required. To this end, people also improve their CP without significant improvements in maximum pause, although they do tend to correlate.

Maximum pause can also fit a few criteria - firstly, it could be the first gulping motion, the first very strong diaphragmatic spasm, the first perceived extreme suffocation type sensation, or even further, to the point where your body literally forces you to breath. As an interesting parallel, free divers usually experience the start of contractions about 30% of the way into their maximum breath hold, so it's possible to go much much further than a perceived maximum if you really try. In the chart above, I think the maximum pause is best understood as the first very strong diaphragmatic spasm or strong swallow. This usually occurs 20-25s above CP.

In contrast to the graph above, my heart rate increased as I increased my control pause to 6x its starting number. So for someone healthy and athletic, the above graph might apply. But there is also the possibility for underlying conditions such as poor thyroid function or cortisol dysregulation (which are affected by poor respiration/co2) to suppress heart rate, and then to paradoxically raise pulse as CP improves. Extensive breathing retraining may also slow metabolism, and therefore lower pulse, so it could possibly be a positive sign for buteyko but a negative one for peat or other frameworks.

I think the graph above is essentially correlation data for untrained individuals seen in buteykos lab, since typical buteyko training that revolves around extended and maximum pauses will tend to greatly distort the figures above. Just through training, most practitioners with a little experience will have a maximum pause approximately 2.5 - 3x higher than their CP.

Johnson
 
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Dizzy45

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
19
I'm someone who's studied and practised this technique extensively.

I want to say, there's huge variance. I was able to extend my maximum pause to 7 times my CP simply by doing a lot of them and using will power. I had an MP of 130 with a CP of 20. But to my dismay this training did not positively impact my automatic breathing rate. A less strenuous, less will power orientated approach was required. To this end, people also improve their CP without significant improvements in maximum pause, although they do tend to correlate.

Maximum pause can also fit a few criteria - firstly, it could be the first gulping motion, the first very strong diaphragmatic spasm, the first perceived extreme suffocation type sensation, or even further, to the point where your body literally forces you to breath. As an interesting parallel, free divers usually experience the start of contractions about 30% of the way into their maximum breath hold, so it's possible to go much much further than a perceived maximum if you really try. In the chart above, I think the maximum pause is best understood as the first very strong diaphragmatic spasm or strong swallow. This usually occurs 20-25s above CP.

In contrast to the graph above, my heart rate increased as I increased my control pause to 6x its starting number. So for someone healthy and athletic, the above graph might apply. But there is also the possibility for underlying conditions such as poor thyroid function or cortisol dysregulation (which are affected by poor respiration/co2) to suppress heart rate, and then to paradoxically raise pulse as CP improves. Extensive breathing retraining may also slow metabolism, and therefore lower pulse, so it could possibly be a positive sign for buteyko but a negative one for peat or other frameworks.

I think the graph above is essentially correlation data for untrained individuals seen in buteykos lab, since typical buteyko training that revolves around extended and maximum pauses will tend to greatly distort the figures above. Just through training, most practitioners with a little experience will have a maximum pause approximately 2.5 - 3x higher than their CP.

Johnson
Great input! My MP used to be incredible as a pre-teen. I remember training to hold my breathe underwater every summer evening in our pool. My record was 2min 32 seconds (without moving). I feel like if I knew to test my CP at that time that it would have been very poor. Do you feel there should be a fine balance between the two? Seems logical to me.
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
50
Buteyko? Yeah check out recovery breathing or plain old bag breathing. I think you just need to feel air hunger for 15 to 20 minutes. Push yourself but not too hard. Breathe with your stomach. Nose breathe 24/7 including when sleeping and when exercising.

Just saved you some cash :-P
Just use a brown paper bag?
 

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