Conquering Brain Fog / Feelings Of Derealization / Fatigue- Need Some Suggestions

[Pet Peeve]

Yeah dude, the more I think about it now the more I realize what could be causing this and what I've found to be improving it. So basically took some ritanserin the night before last to increase sleep quality. It worked in this regard but I think made me pretty fatigued. I took 2mg of MB yesterday and 1 extra drop of thyroid to compensate. Strangely enough I also took a decent dose of gelatin. Woke up today feeling kinda shitty but as day progressed felt better and better. I think this is because MB, Thyroid, and Gelatin combined. I had noticed this the other day when I took 2x the gelatin as usual and had positive effects. The things I am doing - MB, Thyroid, Gelatin, Ritanserin I think are working slowly in my favor and I just need to give them time to do their thing. Sleep quality is so much deeper now and I can thank Ritanserin a lot for that. I started dosing it everyweek and am glad I did. I don't think anything can beat SWS.

I also recently quit supplementing niacinmide by natures way and ordered some from health natura. I think natures way niacinmide may be funky...

I'm surprised and shocked I feel so much better today. I woke up thinking "oh boy heres another day of just barely going through life like a robot." And then came improvement.



Thanks for l-lysine reccomendation. I find this kind of interesting - do you have sources? Nothing too serious on the inquiry so if you cant remember that's okay.

Was wondering if you know if they can test the pancreas? Or how did you determine that you were deficient to begin pancreatic enzymes?

This thread has some interesting info regarding glutamate and depersonalization/derealization: High Levels Of Glutamate Implicated In Depression / Suicide

Edit: this post from haidut is also interesting Glutamic Acid Doubles Prolactin And Cortisol In Humans

I don't know that I'm deficient in pancreatic enzymes, but I have had some problems with brainfog in relation to digestion and especially gluten and starches. Methylene blue helps short term if I ingest gluten by accident but it's a superficial aid. I think my small intestine is inflamed and leaky, that's what I've deduced. I get more and more allergies, had to cut out a lot of foods. Source Natural has a pancreatin product that is 8x and contains only magnesium stearate as a filler, it's worth trying. I find eating 4 to 8 of these pills on an empty stomach before bed specially useful. Some people get more benefit from fungal derived enzymes. I read that the pancreas produce bicarbonate for the small intestine to neutralize the acidity from stomach acid. With insufficient pancreas the food would then sit in the small intestine and ferment while waiting for sufficient bicarbonate to continue the process. A bit of sodium bicarbonate can help in this case if you take it a couple of hours after eating. @PhilParma have you tried this?

 

[PhilParma]

Have you tried the b vitamins to help? Also how is your estrogen level?

I've experimented with all of the b vitamins. Biotin might have helped a bit, but it was nothing worth continuing on with. I haven't had a recent test on my estrogen levels.

@Pet Peeve , nothing to do with the pancreas has been directly on my radar. I take 1-2 tsp of sodium bicarbonate just to reduce the acidity of OJ, I don't notice any reduction in symptoms from it. Although, one thing that improves my brain fog to a minor degree is highly carbonated beverages. That first swig of a carbonated water increases mental clarity, and if I add methylene blue to it, I actually feel not only mentally clear, but increased intelligence. Bag breathing, MB, and carbonation improve my symptoms--CO2 is my friend, I suppose.

re: depersonalization--just a few of days ago, before I even saw this thread, I was showering and the thought occurred to me that it felt like I was watching someone else shower from their subjective viewpoint. A bit like that movie, Being John Malkovich. That is what the brain fog feels like. A lack of mental clarity to such a degree that you're running almost completely on routine and instinct. But don't feel bad for me because my symptoms are much improved from this time a year ago. I feel like I've just recently hit a bump in the road from eating too much saturated fat--Haagen Daz ice cream, big wedges of cheese--in an attempt to gain weight. Gaining weight is tough when you can't load up on both sat. fat and carbs without experiencing intense brain fog.

 

[blackkzeus]

This thread has some interesting info regarding glutamate and depersonalization/derealization: High Levels Of Glutamate Implicated In Depression / Suicide

I don't know that I'm deficient in pancreatic enzymes, but I have had some problems with brainfog in relation to digestion and especially gluten and starches. Methylene blue helps short term if I ingest gluten by accident but it's a superficial aid. I think my small intestine is inflamed and leaky, that's what I've deduced. I get more and more allergies, had to cut out a lot of foods. Source Natural has a pancreatin product that is 8x and contains only magnesium stearate as a filler, it's worth trying. I find eating 4 to 8 of these pills on an empty stomach before bed specially useful. Some people get more benefit from fungal derived enzymes. I read that the pancreas produce bicarbonate for the small intestine to neutralize the acidity from stomach acid. With insufficient pancreas the food would then sit in the small intestine and ferment while waiting for sufficient bicarbonate to continue the process. A bit of sodium bicarbonate can help in this case if you take it a couple of hours after eating. @PhilParma have you tried this?

Hmm I have a similar issue. Do you have silver fillings?

 

[Pet Peeve]

Hmm I have a similar issue. Do you have silver fillings?

I don't think so, I have a few crowns, I know that at least one was put on some metal. I went to a dentist that specialized in removing Mercury fillings but he said he couldn't find any. A couple of my crowns have a gold colored metal rim, where the tooth meets the gum. I was told that it was precious metal but not what kind.

 

[Elron]

I have depersonalization/derealization too. Sometimes I don't even feel like a person, I can't even really relate to anyone. It's like constant death. Somedays are better, but usually it's just ***t. My short term memory is absolutely terrible.

 

[oldfriend]

That super smrt Asian guy just made a post about this yesterday, but now I can't find the post. Basically, you might have to choose between saturated fat and carbs; they can't both be high. .

I've found this to be true in my experience. Anyone know where I can find the post mentioned here, or more information relating to this issue?

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

Yes search For user yew and view his content. You'll find it from there

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

His username is YEW

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

@Westside PUFAs roped me into the thread .... so I guess peeps will have to deal with my rantingz.

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Glucose and Fatty Acids Used at the Same Time

First, to address Westside's claim that "We're always burning both glucose and fatty acids" .....

We ignore the case of extreme anaerobic exercise, whereby pure carb utilisation can occur, but never for long. Thus, we deal with average energy expenditure during daily free-living conditions.

In the case of resting fuel use, the above statement is generally true, unless given the context of very high carbohydrate feeding in excess of caloric needs. Even then, Respiratory Quotient (RQ) drops below 1.0 (pure carb metabolism) very quickly (study link). In children, who are arguably "more eagerly carbohydrate metabolising", RQ still only climbed to a max of 0.91 in this study, when the kids were fed a 25% fat diet. See table 4 for breakdown -- an RQ of 0.91 reflects about 70% energy from carbs, and 30% from fat.

Therefore, yes, in almost all circumstances, both glucose and fatty acids are used.

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PUFA does not hinder recovery in Roy Swank's Multiple Sclerosis (MS) Patients, so long as fat intake is generally low

This was highlighted in Denise Minger's article on very low fat diets -- In Defense of Low Fat: A Call for Some Evolution of Thought (Part 1)

In Peat terms, Swank's "Small amounts of polyunsaturated vegetable oils and fish oil (10 – 40 grams per day)", is not low. And yet, he had multi-decade studies of patients recovering from MS despite this sort of PUFA consumption. In fact, he observed worse outcomes with both increased fat consumption, and increased saturated fat consumption.

As a clarifying note, the PUFAs did not seem strictly necessary on Swank's protocol -- McDougall Interview with Dr. Roy Swank, MD | Dr. McDougall's Health & Medical Center

Swank: We have found over the years that the vegetable oils can be added, from 10 to 30 grams a day, unless one is overweight.

JM: What do you think about adding vegetable oils to your diet?

Swank: Well, I think it’s worthwhile. We have looked at this over a number of years, and have found that the skin and the hair seem better in women. There is also some reserve of calories for energy. Best of all, however, is the fact that the patients can follow the diet more easily if they can have some oil. It makes it more palatable for them.​

Now, we must separate these concepts, and clarify each concept INDEPENDENTLY . There shall be no lazy thinking about whether a compound like PUFA is "good" or "bad" unless context is sufficiently qualified.

First, saturated fat supports a low-carb diet, and can impair signalling in a high carb diet.

If you want details, I have cited Peter @ Hyperlipid many times, especially his "Protons (38)" article -- Hyperlipid: Protons (38) and ultra low fat once more

I have gone through the mechanics many times on this forum, and regardless of whether we are talking about high Free Fatty Acids inhibiting glucose uptake (this is the Randle Effect, and is applicable to all tissues except the liver, brain, and heart), or if we are talking about Peter's mechanic of saturated fat causing mitochondrial insulin resistance via decreased membrane potential / delta-psi ...... it can be said that both the availability of Saturated fat reduces the potential ability for cells in the body to use glucose.

Again, the exception are the tissues of the brain and heart. The brain will demand glucose, and the heart will demand fatty acids, and their fuel use behaviours will barely change unless in ketosis and/or starvation.​

Peter's described mechanics also show that PUFAs provide the opposite signal when metabolised, allowing for continued insulin function, and unaffected carbohydrate metabolism.

Be clear about mechanic please => mitochondrial beta oxidation of PUFA does not hurt on-going carbohydrate metabolism.

This says nothing about whether PUFAs are good for the rest of the body in general. All it says is that if you eat a meal of PUFA + Starch/Sugar, both the PUFA and Starch or Sugar can be digested and used at the same time.

This is not true for a meal of SFA + Starch/Sugar. I've mentioned the observation in this post -- Need Thyroid Med HELP! , and in particular, this study, where it is clear that the more Unsaturated a fat is, the faster it gets oxidised for energy. There is even a statement:

Cooper et al. found that 80–100% of dietary 18:1 was oxidized within 24 h of feeding the labeled meal, while 10–25% of dietary 16:0 was oxidized over the same time frame [51].​

Again, if we look at the mechanics of the FADH2:NADH ratio that Peter has mentioned ad-nauseam, this makes sense during the immediate post-prandial phase where nutrients are competing for utilisation. Then, in the case of fatty acid mobilisation, that last thread I linked to explained the relative ease of mobilisation of PUFA vs SFA.

Sidenote: for those interested in another explanation of SFA vs PUFA oxidation and FADH2:NADH mechanics, expand the quoted section that immediately follows.

​

Again, back to Swank's patients. We have the observations that, in the context of a High Carb, Low Fat diet:

(1) Add more Saturated Fat => patients get moar MS
(2) Add too much overall fat => patients get MOAR MS
(3) Add limited PUFA => patients recover from MS

One simplistic explanatory model becomes obvious: avoid stuff that screws with carbohydrate metabolism, and MS patientz get better

Again, PUFA isn't necessary . But it doesn't stop carbohydrates from being used => cells have enuf energy, and don't screw things up.

As an aside, Minger did mention Walter Kempner, and his diet was truly almost zero fat, and his patients (while not MS patients), also saw good things happen.

If we believe in the "more cellular energy => more cellular intelligence" theory, and the mechanics I have described above (PUFA allows carb metabolism to continue), then this makes perfect sense.

NOTE: it is NEVER so simple that "more of the right food => more cellular energy". I have touched on the topic of cellular efficiency before, phrased with the question, "Metabolism stimulates Cell Intelligence, and Cell Intelligence permits better metabolism. Yet metabolism is Broken. WTF? " -- Metabolic Efficiency And Metabolic Rate - Doubt

If there isn't anything fundamental that is breaking this virtuous Metabolism<=>Intelligence feedback loop, then it may be possible that "more of the right food => more cellular energy".​

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However, we must not ignore the seemingly positive results of people like Terry Wahls, who takes the exact opposite dietary approach to MS, and instead, promotes ketosis.

IMO, this is still perfectly logical -- in the case of ketosis, you have unhindered FFA access, plus ketones, without having any carbs to screw with the metabolism of fat.

If all goes well, we still end up with a case whereby cellular energy requirements can be fulfilled, albeit through a separate mechanism. The success of such a strategy depends on the ability of the patient to process and use all that incoming fatty acids. Some seem to have more success than others.

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Note the Theme here: DO NOT DISRUPT THE USAGE OF THE PRIMARY FUEL SOURCE

When dealing with raw energetics, we aren't talking about "carbs good" or "fat bad", but rather, what is the correct balance of each energetic substrate for a particular person's idiosyncratic way of partitioning and dealing with these substrates.

I have stated my opinion before, whereby one triangulates this balance by starting at one extreme. ie: either exclusively Very Low Fat (<10% fat), or Very Low Carb (<50g carb), and then add more of the "opposing nutrient", until a balance is reached.

In that sense, I am not "anti-fat", nor "anti-carb" , but am of the opinion that one needs to "pick sides" when it comes to a primary nutrient, and lean on it pretty hard. ie: I am biased to say that >15% fat is not good if carbs are thy choice, and >100g carbs are not good if fat is thy poison . Of course, the standard diet that people eat inevitably ends up in limbo territory, where neither of the 2 macronutrients are high or low. Body is confused ......

I have also stated my bias, having found success at the very low fat end of the spectrum (which also happens to fall into my ancestral patterns of eating), and with lots of starch as opposed to sugar.

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[RANT_OVER]

....

How The Sugar Industry Shifted Blame To Fat

 

[Memento]

Bump, any progress to share?

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

I'd like to share some updates I've had and a new viewpoint I have on brain fog and why I think I actually developed it - long story short inflammation was the sole root cause of this in my perspective of my system and I feel much more clear in understanding why Ray teaches what he does and uses the substances he uses.

I recently had a kidney infection and my health had really become pretty bad to be honest, woke up everyday with brain fog, feeling malaise, and not wanting to really do anything. Lots of adrenaline and lots of cortisol

I requested penicilin from my doctor to remedy the infection, and on top of that I drank tons of water with emergen-c.

That is where the magic began to happen, things began to clear up to a degree for me and I started to see what was really happening in my system and that is that I had some sort of bacteria / inflammation running around. I think this is why I also had inflammed lymph nodes early in my journey.

I think drinking so much sugar + high dosing aspirin took a toll on my kidneys and I was having trouble processing all the sugar I was throwing at it.

Long story short more vitamin D now , short term penecillin, more water, and more dopamine for fun life stuff

Anyways hope that can offer a nugget to someone out there

 

[golder]

Consider dropping the taurine for a week.

Interesting. I had loads of taurine yesterday and I've had the absolute worst brain fog ive ever had today. What's with the taurine? What's it doing? Thanks for this @Hamster