Connection Between Liver Dysfunction & Hypothyroidism

[Recoen]

Hi Amber

My thyroid labs are within normal mainstream ranges but my temps are as low as 93.7.

I have had elevated liver enzymes since 18 years old. I was a blackout binge drinker though. 32 years old now and taking care of my liver for roughly 6 months has not helped my temps or learned helplessness much.

Thankfully our Bulgarian American Angel sent from above @haidut has a manifested DeFibron for reversing poor liver health in all these suffering hamsters! Start that hamster slow, 1 drop daily. 1 drop at first would send my fur ball to the moon with dopamine.

My last labs showed improvement in liver health but I am wary to test now with the local testing site being Covid Central.

Have you used anything else for your phase II liver detox like Calcium d-glucarate, taurine, tudca, etc?
Has the defibron helped with your glucuronidation? Or is there a different idealabs supplement you would try for it?
Georgi said NAD is crucial for glucuronidation on a podcast with Danny Roddy.

 

[Kvothe]

Man my thyroid medication started working after LDN. Until that, thyroid was not working even at very high doses and I tried all- t4, T3, t4/t3

What is LDN?

 

[LLight]

What is LDN?

Low Dose Naltrexone I believe.

 

[Broken man]

What is LDN?

Low dose naltrexone- Its game changer.

 

[boris]

I think the only real option for a person with a really compromised liver is to take small amounts of t3 several times a day. It's the only protocol that has reliably shown to increase serum t3 and improve liver function in hypothyroid people. Once the liver has recovered to a certain extent, one can probably start including some T4 with the T3.

When you talk about small anounts of T3 several times a day. How much do you think would be fine?

 

[Kvothe]

When you talk about small anounts of T3 several times a day. How much do you think would be fine?

For me, 4mcg doses, 3-4 times a day worked well and were convenient. 8mcg doses, i.e. one drop of Tyronene, were too much for me as a start, but once your liver has adapted to a higher metabolism higher doses might be fine. Studies with hypothyroid people have used of around 15mcg three times daily and were effective over several months.

Low dose naltrexone- Its game changer.

Interesting this. What's your reasoning on why it helped you to tolerate thyroid?


Thyroid Function of Former Opioid Addicts on Naltrexone Treatment
I Ilias 1, I Kakoulas, I Christakopoulou, K Katsadoros


In order to assess thyroid function in former opioid addicts undergoing adjunctive naltrexone (NA) p.o. treatment, we studied 24 subjects (BMI +/- SD: 23.3 +/- 3.2 kg/m2) on 50 mg NA p.o. daily for 15 days to 14.5 months continuously. Measurements included thyrotropin (TSH), total thyroxin (TT4), total triiodothyronine (TT3), while the TT3/TT4100 ratio was calculated as a marker of peripheral conversion of T4 to T3. Reverse T3 (rT3) and serum interleukin-6 (IL-6) levels were also measured. Statistical analysis of thyroid parameters among them, of thyroid parameters versus duration of NA use as well as of thyroid parameters versus BMI was done with linear regression. All the subjects received NA well. The thyroid hormone work-up showed that all the subjects on NA were overall euthyroid. Mean +/- SD levels for TSH were 1.59 +/- 0.29 mU/L, TT4: 171.17 +/- 14.07 nmol/L, TT3: 2.01 +/- 0.27 nmol/L, TT3/TT4100: 1.18 +/- 0.19, rT3: 0.26 +/- 0.07 nmol/L and IL-6: 20.3 +/- 36.6 pg/mL. The duration of NA use was positively correlated with TT3 (r = +0.72, p < 0.001) and TT3/TT4 x 100 (r = +0.77, p < 0.001) and negatively, but not statistically significant, with TT4 (r = -0.38, p = 0.065) and with TSH (r = -0.39, p = 0.062). No significant correlations were found between TT3 and BMI, duration of NA use and rT3 and IL-6. Although few subjects were studied, there are indications that the duration of naltrexone may be positively correlated with TT3 and the ratio of T4 to T3 conversion.

 

[Recoen]

For me, 4mcg doses, 3-4 times a day worked well and were convenient. 8mcg doses, i.e. one drop of Tyronene, were too much for me as a start, but once your liver has adapted to a higher metabolism higher doses might be fine. Studies with hypothyroid people have used of around 15mcg three times daily and were effective over several months.



Interesting this. What's your reasoning on why it helped you to tolerate thyroid?


Thyroid Function of Former Opioid Addicts on Naltrexone Treatment
I Ilias 1, I Kakoulas, I Christakopoulou, K Katsadoros


In order to assess thyroid function in former opioid addicts undergoing adjunctive naltrexone (NA) p.o. treatment, we studied 24 subjects (BMI +/- SD: 23.3 +/- 3.2 kg/m2) on 50 mg NA p.o. daily for 15 days to 14.5 months continuously. Measurements included thyrotropin (TSH), total thyroxin (TT4), total triiodothyronine (TT3), while the TT3/TT4100 ratio was calculated as a marker of peripheral conversion of T4 to T3. Reverse T3 (rT3) and serum interleukin-6 (IL-6) levels were also measured. Statistical analysis of thyroid parameters among them, of thyroid parameters versus duration of NA use as well as of thyroid parameters versus BMI was done with linear regression. All the subjects received NA well. The thyroid hormone work-up showed that all the subjects on NA were overall euthyroid. Mean +/- SD levels for TSH were 1.59 +/- 0.29 mU/L, TT4: 171.17 +/- 14.07 nmol/L, TT3: 2.01 +/- 0.27 nmol/L, TT3/TT4100: 1.18 +/- 0.19, rT3: 0.26 +/- 0.07 nmol/L and IL-6: 20.3 +/- 36.6 pg/mL. The duration of NA use was positively correlated with TT3 (r = +0.72, p < 0.001) and TT3/TT4 x 100 (r = +0.77, p < 0.001) and negatively, but not statistically significant, with TT4 (r = -0.38, p = 0.065) and with TSH (r = -0.39, p = 0.062). No significant correlations were found between TT3 and BMI, duration of NA use and rT3 and IL-6. Although few subjects were studied, there are indications that the duration of naltrexone may be positively correlated with TT3 and the ratio of T4 to T3 conversion.

Will you please share what brand you use that’s only 4ug?

 

[Kvothe]

Will you please share what brand you use that’s only 4ug?

Idealabs' Tyronene, diluted in a 50% ethanol solution.

 

[LUH 3417]

Idealabs' Tyronene, diluted in a 50% ethanol solution.

I’ve been taking small amounts of cynomel (t3 only) through out the day and my energy and temps are good. I slice the pill so it’s about 5mcg. I decided to try some cynoplus (t3/t4) and I felt terrible.

 

[Kvothe]

I’ve been taking small amounts of cynomel (t3 only) through out the day and my energy and temps are good. I slice the pill so it’s about 5mcg. I decided to try some cynoplus (t3/t4) and I felt terrible.

A very common problem, I think. Most people don't tolerate any extra T4 before they have stabilized their serum t3 at a higher level.

 

[Broken man]

Interesting this. What's your reasoning on why it helped you to tolerate thyroid?

My take is because of lowered inflammation, its huge problem for me, but if its increasing conversion to T3, its even better.

 

[Broken man]

I’ve been taking small amounts of cynomel (t3 only) through out the day and my energy and temps are good. I slice the pill so it’s about 5mcg. I decided to try some cynoplus (t3/t4) and I felt terrible.

Body is not using T4 when in stressed state.

 

[2ManyHistamines]

Have you used anything else for your phase II liver detox like Calcium d-glucarate, taurine, tudca, etc?
Has the defibron helped with your glucuronidation? Or is there a different idealabs supplement you would try for it?
Georgi said NAD is crucial for glucuronidation on a podcast with Danny Roddy.

Sorry for late response. Just taurine in conjunction with Defibron at first. I then used @Hans article for liver health/healing as a guide and implemented larger doses of taurine, niacinamide, larger doses of caffeine/coffee, K2, D3, getting enough protein and glycine, and some Energin. I also gave the subject some foods recommended by Hans in the article below that were well tolerated.

I'm the wrong person to ask about glucuronidation. Check out Han's article here it may help. Improve liver function for a faster metabolism, higher testosterone and more energy » MenElite

 

[Recoen]

Sorry for late response. Just taurine in conjunction with Defibron at first. I then used @Hans article for liver health/healing as a guide and implemented larger doses of taurine, niacinamide, larger doses of caffeine/coffee, K2, D3, getting enough protein and glycine, and some Energin. I also gave the subject some foods recommended by Hans in the article below that were well tolerated.

I'm the wrong person to ask about glucuronidation. Check out Han's article here it may help. Improve liver function for a faster metabolism, higher testosterone and more energy » MenElite

Thank you! Did they notice anything from using the defibron?

 

[2ManyHistamines]

@2ManyHistamines:

Thanks for posting. I'm interested in your experiences with DeFibron. I also have liver problems (probably arising from a toxic stew of hypothyroidism, LPS, and malnutrition), and at least on paper, DeFibron looks like it could help on multiple fronts. I tried 2 drops of DeFibron and experienced just what your hamster did. Could you post more about your experiments with DeFibron, either here or in the DeFibron thread, and tag me? In particular, I'd be interested in hearing about how long it took to tolerate 1 drop without a dopamine/adrenaline spike, the rate at which you increased doses, and whether DeFibron helped with glycogen storage or estrogen detox, two areas where my liver is failing right now.

In any case, I wish you continued progress.

@Creative Nature I apologize for not responding sooner. I have been in a tailspin for near 2 months now with cholinergic system activation to varying degrees.

Unfortunately my notes in the beginning of the trial are severely lacking (non-existent!). I recall administering one drop/day and being astounded at the results. I would try to push it to 2 drops at some point after the first week. Anxiety/Panic behaviors were observed from more than 1 drop daily...at first.


Taurine was given in conjunction with Defibron at first. After a month of the aforementioned, Cyproheptadine was introduced and Defibron administration ceased. A ten day course of Cypro resulted in a 5 - 15x increase in the subjects tolerance to Defibron after the 10 day trial with low dose Cypro.


In other words, by the 11th day, when Cypro was halted and Defibron recommenced, the subject was able to work up to a total of 5 drops daily and then it was learned soon after that 5 drops 3x's daily could be accommodated with no anxiety like symptoms occurring from increased dopamine and or adrenaline. There seemed to be no response from the "1-drop rule" that was in place before the Cypro commenced.

The subject no longer reacting to a single drop would start the next day with two drops, still nothing. Not a tingle of dopamine apparent. The next day 3 drops and so on up till 5 drops, where a sweet spot was found. Through careful observance and slow incrementalism, 5 drops 3x's daily soon proved to give no adverse reactions.

NOTE: No such "tolerance" was observed after 1 drop daily for near a month (2 day tolerance break instituted after the second week ) pre-Cyproheptadine. One drop daily, with not a single day of the 30 day period in question, would make the subject euphoric, energetic, motivated, and at times anxiety prone (rare).



Larger doses were tested repeatedly, 6 or more drops per feeding would cause subject to display anxiety like behavior. 7 drops was the maximum tested, only once. The 5 drop barrier was tested 4 times over 6 months with 6 drops, with a negative reaction(anxiety) on all counts. 5 drops 3x's daily seems to be the subjects threshold, taken with or without food.

I cannot speak to the liver glycogen or estrogen. I would think Defibron could only help in such a situation.

One thing is for sure, it seems to have amazing anti-histamine properties.

I hope this is clear, my mind is foggy. Best Wishes to you.

 

[2ManyHistamines]

Thank you! Did they notice anything from using the defibron?

O yes! Defibron seems to be a bit of a miracle worker for histamine issues, intestinal irritation, and mood.

 

[Recoen]

O yes! Defibron seems to be a bit of a miracle worker for histamine issues, intestinal irritation, and mood.

Thanks for your response. I’m sorry about the cholinergic activation. Do you know what caused triggered the activation?

 

[2ManyHistamines]

Thanks for your response. I’m sorry about the cholinergic activation. Do you know what caused triggered the activation?

Thank you. I can't point to one thing as there were many variables at play. I was experimenting with quite a few supplements, at least one of which increases acetyl-CoA (I was taking 400mg B1 daily). I was/am more socially isolated than ever thanks to living La Covida-19 lock-down lifestyle, as many of us are. My cigarette smoking was increasing along with egg yolk consumption.

It feels as if the universe itself brought the experience upon me. Perhaps it is an experience I need to re-orient myself in the world.
More likely, it is just another result of poor environment/energy production.

 

[Creative Nature]

@Creative Nature I apologize for not responding sooner. I have been in a tailspin for near 2 months now with cholinergic system activation to varying degrees.

Unfortunately my notes in the beginning of the trial are severely lacking (non-existent!). I recall administering one drop/day and being astounded at the results. I would try to push it to 2 drops at some point after the first week. Anxiety/Panic behaviors were observed from more than 1 drop daily...at first.


Taurine was given in conjunction with Defibron at first. After a month of the aforementioned, Cyproheptadine was introduced and Defibron administration ceased. A ten day course of Cypro resulted in a 5 - 15x increase in the subjects tolerance to Defibron after the 10 day trial with low dose Cypro.


In other words, by the 11th day, when Cypro was halted and Defibron recommenced, the subject was able to work up to a total of 5 drops daily and then it was learned soon after that 5 drops 3x's daily could be accommodated with no anxiety like symptoms occurring from increased dopamine and or adrenaline. There seemed to be no response from the "1-drop rule" that was in place before the Cypro commenced.

The subject no longer reacting to a single drop would start the next day with two drops, still nothing. Not a tingle of dopamine apparent. The next day 3 drops and so on up till 5 drops, where a sweet spot was found. Through careful observance and slow incrementalism, 5 drops 3x's daily soon proved to give no adverse reactions.

NOTE: No such "tolerance" was observed after 1 drop daily for near a month (2 day tolerance break instituted after the second week ) pre-Cyproheptadine. One drop daily, with not a single day of the 30 day period in question, would make the subject euphoric, energetic, motivated, and at times anxiety prone (rare).



Larger doses were tested repeatedly, 6 or more drops per feeding would cause subject to display anxiety like behavior. 7 drops was the maximum tested, only once. The 5 drop barrier was tested 4 times over 6 months with 6 drops, with a negative reaction(anxiety) on all counts. 5 drops 3x's daily seems to be the subjects threshold, taken with or without food.

I cannot speak to the liver glycogen or estrogen. I would think Defibron could only help in such a situation.

One thing is for sure, it seems to have amazing anti-histamine properties.

I hope this is clear, my mind is foggy. Best Wishes to you.

Thank you, @2ManyHistamines. That information helps. Interesting that cyproheptadine makes such a big difference in tolerance for DeFibron.

I was already taking cyproheptadine in fairly high doses when I tried DeFibron the last two times, and still found a couple of drops of DeFibron stressful. I have liver trouble and frequent stress reactions to digestion, both problems that DeFibron could potentially help, so I'll keep experimenting.

Hope you find a way out of the tailspin soon.

 

[Creative Nature]

O yes! Defibron seems to be a bit of a miracle worker for histamine issues, intestinal irritation, and mood.

What kinds of intestinal symptoms did DeFibron relieve?