Confused On Ray Peat View On Fats [MUFA]

[ravster02]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Mittir,

RP recommends Niacinamide to limit PUFA release from overwhelming the liver.
Do you think Niacinamide also delays the process of burning fat at rest by muscles.

That is the way i understand the mechanism. Cells through out the body uses FFA to burn as energy,
IIRC brain cells are an exception. I have used niacinamide for about 2 years straight and then stopped using 6 months ago and letting stored PUFA out. Before using niacinamide i could not go without food more than 7-8 hours and after using i could stay away from food for 10-12 hours. Now i can avoid food for 13-14 hours without feeling bad. So, i think my liver has healed a lot from using Niacinaimde. I think i will start using niacinamide again if i feel like liver is not working properly.

Interesting, especially the comment about going 10 hours without food.

How much niacinamide were you on?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

In his articles Ray Peat say unsaturated fats are toxic and only saturated fat is good. He writes in the same sentence only saturated fat is good and mentions olive oil as being one, which is monosatured fat. Weird.

Is monosaturated fat in his view saturated? Than he says the that thyroid supplemantation is resonable when the ratio od saturated to unsaturated is out of the ratio 2:1.

Thas RayPeat think monosaturated fat is good to cook with, is it even stable in high temperatures?

I dont know, I tried explaining to people at peatarian but I got nowhere, it just used up my time and energy.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

What are you so confused about? Here. It's simple:

There are three types of fats. PUFA, MUFA, and SAFA.

Peat's view is:

PUFA is toxic. Avoid as much as you can.

MUFA is not as toxic because of the difference in the carbon atoms but it's usually accompanied with lots of PUFA as in olive oil. Peat said avocados are hepatoxic, toxic to the liver. The only two main sources of MUFA are olive and avocado, not something you should be gorging on anyways. Peat says olive oil should just be used for flavoring only. He did mention that it does have some anti-oxidants but it's not something you should be cooking with. Just a little.

SAFA from high quality dairy, ruminant fat, and coconut is protective because it helps to replace the toxicity of stored PUFA. A bit of chocolate is good too. Peat once mentioned the old woman who ate tons of chocolate. SAFA must be used in context though, because as Peat clearly said from the quotes that I point out but everyone ignores because people don't like the taste of lower fat dairy, well, he still said it. Basically, get your fats from dairy fat if tolerated, ruminant fat if you have access to it, coconut fat, and or chocolate fat. But don't become a "fat burner" like the paleo crowd likes to say. Peat recommends being a sugar burner, not a fat burner, which is why he recommends fruit and OJ as a main calorie source. His low fat or skim milk also is a carb source.

"If the basic foods were chosen for minimal unsaturated fats, then coconut oil wouldn't add much of value." - RP

But most people don't avoid unsaturated fats so it should be used. if you really do avoid them though, then overt SAFA probably doesn't have much value because we make our own saturated, monounsaturated, and omega-9 fats from sugar.

 

[Mittir]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Interesting, especially the comment about going 10 hours without food.

How much niacinamide were you on?

Started with 50 mg twice a day and after few weeks it was 100 mg twice a day
sometime 3 times a day. Never used mega dose. I was having low sugar headache
in the beginning and it get better soon and frequent eating is necessary when taking
niacinamide.

That 10-14 hours food deprivation is measured around sleep. I used to wake up
6-7 hours of sleep. Now i can wake up after 8 hours of fully rested sleep and wait another
4-6 hours without eating anything. It is not like i stay active for 10 hours and not eat anything.

 

[XPlus]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Mittir,

RP recommends Niacinamide to limit PUFA release from overwhelming the liver.
Do you think Niacinamide also delays the process of burning fat at rest by muscles.

That is the way i understand the mechanism. Cells through out the body uses FFA to burn as energy,
IIRC brain cells are an exception. I have used niacinamide for about 2 years straight and then stopped using 6 months ago and letting stored PUFA out. Before using niacinamide i could not go without food more than 7-8 hours and after using i could stay away from food for 10-12 hours. Now i can avoid food for 13-14 hours without feeling bad. So, i think my liver has healed a lot from using Niacinaimde. I think i will start using niacinamide again if i feel like liver is not working properly.

Very interesting..
So people with liver problems who also happen to want to lose weight at the same time are driving on the wrong side of the road.

This seems consistent with my experience. Too much exercise or fasting seems to make my liver irritated.

 

[sladerunner69]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

You know, somebody just resurected a two year old topic I started in 2013.

The chest pain is probably acid reflux eating away your esophagus. This is what so so so many peatarians ended up with, including me. There were so so many people talking about it on peatarian.com.

The liver just gets clogged up.

It doesnt seem like acid or gas. What did you do about it? The pain is in the center of my chest near the sternum, and is more of a tightness or stiffness than an acute pain. When I eat more safa my chest tightens up and my breathing becomes more difficult. What did you do to resolve the acid reflux??

 

[freal]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

I never felt problem breathing though? I felt like the whole liver was in pain, maybe the liver gets inflamed. The liver is triangularly below the breast. some people did say that the stomach acid got into the lungs and they had problem breathing. I read acid reflux destroyed 90% of some guys lungs. Usually the garbage from the liver goes to the gallblader where it gets stuck and calcifies, so gallstones will hurt and it stay for longer after the liver is clean.



Adding certain nutrient should take care of the problem in somethin like 1 month plus a good dose of exercise to get the thing moving every day. Problematic is usually choline/betaine and potassium and maybe some other b vitamins. But the gallstones stay for months.

First I recomend keeping sugar bellow 10% of calories and fat bellow 40% , together bellow 50%. Fructose is somewhat more problematic at first, but it uses the same nutrient for metabolism. Maybe sugar can be higher and fat lower.
Maybe a b-complex vitamin for some period of time. Starch/glucose seem to not tax the liver, unless you are diabetic.

Its seems we are are the genetically unlucky ones and we cant make choline from methione.
So high enough doses of choline and betaine are only found in 4 foods: egg yolk,beets, spinach(dont recomend unles you like kidney stones) and liver(-dont recomend).

2-3 egg yolks or 250 grams of canned beets or 50 grams of spinach daily. It works far better with exercise.
B6, B9, B12 and vit E should be extremely helpfull.DO NOT TAKE B3 (NIACINAMIDE),BUT SMALL DOSE IS OK!

 

[DaveFoster]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats


I think it's important to remember that Ray Peat always says that everything must be taken in context.

His Summary from Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic



Those are the basics.

But, don't forget, he is a scientist. He is giving us the facts on what is safe and what is not safe to use. What is optimal is the not the same as what is safe.

After studying his work, I only use coconut oil and butter - except when I eat smoke oysters (once per week) which are packed in olive oil. I have to order them from the internet to get them in olive oil, all the smoked oysters in the stores are packed in PUFA. I do remove as much of the olive oil as I can. But this way I can tolerate oysters.

In this same article, he says that coconut oil and olive oil are the only really safe vegetable oils and that that olive oil (extra virgin grade only) contains an anti-oxidant that is protective against heart disease. He also points out that it is fattening, whereas coconut oil promotes weight loss.



Source

That being said, he extolls many, many more virtues of coconut oil throughout his work.
In my view, there is no little doubt that he considers coconut oil not only among the safest of oils to use but that it is a substance that is an important part of healthy eating for a high metabolic rate.

I've never made anything close to that determination about olive oil from studying his work. It is not something I include often in my diet (oysters are only exception.)



Source: Oils in Context

That information alone is enough for me personally to avoid olive oil, although he does cite another study in a different article where the use of olive oil was shown to reduce significantly tumor incidence caused by 9,10-dimethyl-1,2-benzanthracene.

Nonetheless, I have no need for it in my own diet and much prefer the taste and results I'm having using coconut oil and butter as my sources of fat. Lately, I've been primarily using coconut oil.

This was RP's experience when he first began using coconut oil regularly in his diet.



Source: Coconut Oil

Hold up! Ray ate rice!?

 

[Luann]

*gasp STARRCH

Without reading much of the posts, here goes. MUFA is how much (exact amount, unknown) of our fat deposits wind up anyway. Eat saturated fat, get MUFA, due to stearoyl-CoA desaturase. It might not be all that much, but MUFA is in the body, like it or not, every time you eat coconut oil. Or even sugar converted to cholesterol. The body adds that double bond. So don't fear MUFA, there's no way to keep it out of your body anyway, but be aware that most MUFA sources in food have PUFA too, some substantial, like olive oil, even cow's milk.