Confused On Ray Peat View On Fats [MUFA]

Discussion in 'Fats' started by freal, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. freal

    freal Member

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    In his articles Ray Peat say unsaturated fats are toxic and only saturated fat is good. He writes in the same sentence only saturated fat is good and mentions olive oil as being one, which is monosatured fat. Weird.

    Is monosaturated fat in his view saturated? Than he says the that thyroid supplemantation is resonable when the ratio od saturated to unsaturated is out of the ratio 2:1.

    Thas RayPeat think monosaturated fat is good to cook with, is it even stable in high temperatures?
     
  2. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    I think it's important to remember that Ray Peat always says that everything must be taken in context.

    His Summary from Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic

    Those are the basics.

    But, don't forget, he is a scientist. He is giving us the facts on what is safe and what is not safe to use. What is optimal is the not the same as what is safe.

    After studying his work, I only use coconut oil and butter - except when I eat smoke oysters (once per week) which are packed in olive oil. I have to order them from the internet to get them in olive oil, all the smoked oysters in the stores are packed in PUFA. I do remove as much of the olive oil as I can. But this way I can tolerate oysters. ;)

    In this same article, he says that coconut oil and olive oil are the only really safe vegetable oils and that that olive oil (extra virgin grade only) contains an anti-oxidant that is protective against heart disease. He also points out that it is fattening, whereas coconut oil promotes weight loss.

    Source

    That being said, he extolls many, many more virtues of coconut oil throughout his work.
    In my view, there is no little doubt that he considers coconut oil not only among the safest of oils to use but that it is a substance that is an important part of healthy eating for a high metabolic rate.

    I've never made anything close to that determination about olive oil from studying his work. It is not something I include often in my diet (oysters are only exception.)

    Source: Oils in Context

    That information alone is enough for me personally to avoid olive oil, although he does cite another study in a different article where the use of olive oil was shown to reduce significantly tumor incidence caused by 9,10-dimethyl-1,2-benzanthracene.

    Nonetheless, I have no need for it in my own diet and much prefer the taste and results I'm having using coconut oil and butter as my sources of fat. Lately, I've been primarily using coconut oil.

    This was RP's experience when he first began using coconut oil regularly in his diet.

    Source: Coconut Oil
     
  3. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Can you please name the article you are referring to.
    RP does not recommend cooking with olive oil. Because
    10% of olive oil is PUFA. He recommends 1-2 tsp olive oil in salad
    only for flavor and antioxidant property. He did mention
    benefits of oleic acid in several of his articles. Most MUFA in olive oil is in
    oleic acid form. Here is a quote from RP
    "A series of studies about 20 years ago showed that the functions of the thyroid hormone are all inhibited by unsaturated fats, with the inhibition increasing in proportion to the number of unsaturations (double bonds) in the fat molecule.'

    MUFA has one double bond and Linoleic has two double bonds and Linolenic has 3
    In fish oil DHA has 6 and EPA has 5 double bonds.
    Prostaglandins formation from omega 6 is a major source of damage.
    Oleic acid does not have this kind of effect. Yes, MUFA does
    inhibit thyroid function to some degree, but would be the least harmful of all unsaturated fat.
     
  4. lazz

    lazz Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    4petssakes is a Peat's Encyclopedia... :mrgreen: lol..good job...thank u
     
  5. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Why does saturated fat make my chest hurt? Does it contribute to arterioclerosis like most people say? Ive also heard it will stiffen arteries temporarily. From my own experience my chest feels mich better when Im not eating saturated fat and eating unsatirated only. I think Peat may be a bit off when he speaks about saturated fat being healthy and not being a concern for heart health.
     
  6. tigerlily96

    tigerlily96 Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    That's interesting because it makes my chest hurt too, why is that?? I worry about eating saturated fat I have to admit BUT since almost stopping pufa I am so much healthier and my skin is so soft.
     
  7. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Can you link the articles where this information is from?
     
  8. tigerlily96

    tigerlily96 Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Wish there was an answer to this because today I had some butter and cream and again my chest slightly hurt and at the age of 48 this does worry me.
     
  9. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    When talking about saturated fats,usually CO and butter are mentioned. How about (red) palm oil and cacaobutter (the 2nd not for cooking obviously)? they're fairly high in saturated fat as well and palm oil contains quite some Vit.E which I suspect would negate the harmfol effects of PUFAS present in it?

    Besides that,he says olive oil is a bit fattening but less than other oils. I wonder when going for MUFAS if some macadamia nuts or avocado migth actually be less fattening than olive oil? (I never cared much for the taste of olive oil anyway. The fattening part of it is confusing though bc people in The Medittareanian basically live off of it,despite eating a fair amount of carbs and they're usually not obese/overweigth. And what about all the people losing weigth on a Medittaranian Diet? I recently found articles mentioning people reversing fatty liver on reasonably high MUFA Diet.)
     
  10. paper_clips43

    paper_clips43 Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Chest pain from fat could be related to gallbladder..
     
  11. Zachs

    Zachs Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Tigerlilly, what else did you eat with the cream and butter? Starches might be an issue, meat as well.
     
  12. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats


    Theres like tons of evidence showing that saturated fat and cholestrol intake is the cause of arterioclerosis and heart disease... I don't know why Peat doesn't write much on that issue. Heart disease is such a common problem yet he hasn't addressed it with an article. I think his anti-authoritarian stance on health and medicine has kind of a self-serving bias sometimes... as in his desire to be a rebel scientist influences his writing.

    People with low cholestrol in their blood are very unlikely to have a heart attack. People who don't consume saturated fats are also very unlikely to have heart disease. Looking at traditional cultures and diets, people like the masai tribe and the french, whose cuisine includes a large amount of animal fats, sufferred from heart disease. Biopsies have shown extensive plaque build up in their arteries, and the masai ate very little pufa. Their diet is like 99% cow oriented. They eat beef, drink milk and blood. Not much pufa on the plains of the savannah.

    Also eating sugar is known to raise triglycerides, another marker for heart disease. If I have any criticism of eating a high fat high sugar diet it would be that it is very concerning from a heart disease perspective. And Ive found very little in the way of answers on this forum or Peat's site.
     
  13. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Isn't it the opposite? It's known as the French paradox. In fact there is a "paradox" named after many countries where CVD is lower despite higher sat fat intake or vice versa. Otherwise, this topic has been very widely discussed elsewhere. Do you know why cholesterol lowering drugs like statins are such a huge catastrophe?
     
  14. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    You're gonna get a lot of heat for that one. Reference for your Masai claim? Even I think it's BS and I'm critical of SAFA too, but in a different context.

    I've been critical of saturated fat recently, (mostly in cream form, any dairy fat=cream), but my context has been that the only problem with it is that it can cause fat gain on the belly, neck, thighs, and chest (not just my opinion, Peat has stated that as well from whole milk, too much butter etc.) and then in turn cause blood sugar problems and insulin resistance for having too much adipose tissue. Now that's obviously only a problem for someone who doesn't realize that they are getting fatter by the day, and then wake up one day and think "What have I done!!??." If you're someone who can eat saturated fat without getting fat then that's great. Peat eats a bit of butter and cheese daily while choosing low fat or skim milk as his milk sources. But he has clearly stated in audio interviews that you have to be careful with cheese because some are like a soft butter while others have little fat.

    I don't think SAFA causes heart disease. Why would our heart choose to burn saturated fats at rest? I'm trying to find out more on that as well but it seems that its the normal physiological reaction. But wait a second, does that mean that we should be eating tons of SAFA? Well not exactly, seeing as we make our own saturated, monounsaturated, and omega-9 fats from sugar. Let me repeat that: we make our own saturated, monounsaturated,a and omega-9 fats from sugar. I think this is an important point that can't be ignored. Any references will be appreciated. What is the process, as in what enzymes convert sugar into those fats and where does it happen etc.?

    PUFA causes heart disease. In one of the audio interviews with Peat, Sarah from the Herb Doctors talks about a recent study in Japan where they cut open the arterie of a person with atherosclerosis and they found little balls of cholesterol, but there was PUFA vegetable oil inside of the cholesterol. :cry:

    People who get heart disease eat PUFA in these forms:

    Mayonaise, all salad dressings (the first ingredient in salad dressing and mayo is pure oil), margarine all snack foods and potato chips (but it's not the potatoes that are the problem, its the oil they are cooked in same thing with "fried" rice, its the oil, not the rice), baked goods like donuts, pastries, and cakes have huge amounts of PUFA, restaurant food, fried food, pizza dough is made with oil, soups from restaurants are made with lots of oil (and homemade soups too, by people who think oil is good for them), supplements like fish oil, evening primrose oil, flax oil etc.
     
  15. OP
    freal

    freal Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    You know, somebody just resurected a two year old topic I started in 2013.

    The chest pain is probably acid reflux eating away your esophagus. This is what so so so many peatarians ended up with, including me. There were so so many people talking about it on peatarian.com.

    The liver just gets clogged up.
     
  16. BobbyDukes

    BobbyDukes Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Yet I've read from Peat that saturated fat is GOOD for the liver. How can it be protective for alcoholics, if it clogs the liver, fattens it up, and makes it run less efficiently?

    I feel best keeping fat to extremely low levels. This limits my food choices quite a bit though, being that I eat no starch, and try to stick to Peat's advisory guidelines.
     
  17. OP
    freal

    freal Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    I dont know, I tried explaining to people at peatarian but I got nowhere, it just used up my time and energy.

    If the shoe fits, wear it.
     
  18. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    PUFA damages all the organs, including liver. Poor function of liver is readily felt as it
    worsens many other health issues. Niacinamide improves liver function by lowering
    PUFA release in the form of free fatty acids. If the free fatty acid is mostly comprised
    of saturated fat then liver and other organs are not harmed.

    I think RP's idea of saturated fat stored in liver is protective by inhibiting PUFA's use
    in the liver. One can have fatty liver on fat free diet, extra carbohydrate can also cause
    fatty liver. According to RP this is pure saturated fat, thus not harmful. He is not suggesting
    we all have fatty liver. He is simply pointing out that PUFA stored in body including liver is
    harmful compared to saturated fat. If one's body is relatively PUFA free then having saturated
    fat in liver does not have any special benefit.

    A low fat high carb diet increases metabolism compared to high fat diet and this minimizes
    the chance of having fat storage in organs.
     
  19. XPlus

    XPlus Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    Mittir,

    RP recommends Niacinamide to limit PUFA release from overwhelming the liver.
    Do you think Niacinamide also delays the process of burning fat at rest by muscles.
     
  20. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

    That is the way i understand the mechanism. Cells through out the body uses FFA to burn as energy,
    IIRC brain cells are an exception. I have used niacinamide for about 2 years straight and then stopped using 6 months ago and letting stored PUFA out. Before using niacinamide i could not go without food more than 7-8 hours and after using i could stay away from food for 10-12 hours. Now i can avoid food for 13-14 hours without feeling bad. So, i think my liver has healed a lot from using Niacinaimde. I think i will start using niacinamide again if i feel like liver is not working properly.
     
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