Confused On Ray Peat View On Fats [MUFA]

[freal]

In his articles Ray Peat say unsaturated fats are toxic and only saturated fat is good. He writes in the same sentence only saturated fat is good and mentions olive oil as being one, which is monosatured fat. Weird.

Is monosaturated fat in his view saturated? Than he says the that thyroid supplemantation is resonable when the ratio od saturated to unsaturated is out of the ratio 2:1.

Thas RayPeat think monosaturated fat is good to cook with, is it even stable in high temperatures?

 

[4peatssake]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

In his articles Ray Peat say unsaturated fats are toxic and only saturated fat is good. He writes in the same sentence only saturated fat is good and mentions olive oil as being one, which is monosatured fat. Weird.

Is monosaturated fat in his view saturated? Than he says the that thyroid supplemantation is resonable when the ratio od saturated to unsaturated is out of the ratio 2:1.

Thas RayPeat think monosaturated fat is good to cook with, is it even stable in high temperatures?

I think it's important to remember that Ray Peat always says that everything must be taken in context.

His Summary from Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic

SUMMARY

Unsaturated fats cause aging, clotting, inflammation, cancer, and weight gain.

Avoid foods which contain the polyunsaturated oils, such as corn, soy, safflower, flax, cottonseed, canola, peanut, and sesame oil.

Mayonnaise, pastries, even candies may contain these oils; check the labels for ingredients.

Pork is now fed corn and soy beans, so lard is usually as toxic as those oils; use only lean pork.

Fish oils are usually highly unsaturated; "dry" types of fish, and shellfish, used once or twice a week, are good. Avoid cod liver oil.

Use vitamin E.

Use coconut oil, butter, and olive oil.

Unsaturated fats intensify estrogen's harmful effects.

Those are the basics.

But, don't forget, he is a scientist. He is giving us the facts on what is safe and what is not safe to use. What is optimal is the not the same as what is safe.

After studying his work, I only use coconut oil and butter - except when I eat smoke oysters (once per week) which are packed in olive oil. I have to order them from the internet to get them in olive oil, all the smoked oysters in the stores are packed in PUFA. I do remove as much of the olive oil as I can. But this way I can tolerate oysters.

In this same article, he says that coconut oil and olive oil are the only really safe vegetable oils and that that olive oil (extra virgin grade only) contains an anti-oxidant that is protective against heart disease. He also points out that it is fattening, whereas coconut oil promotes weight loss.

Coconut and olive oil are the only vegetable oils that are really safe, but butter and lamb fat, which are highly saturated, are generally very safe (except when the animals have been poisoned). Coconut oil is unique in its ability to prevent weight-gain or cure obesity, by stimulating metabolism. It is quickly metabolized, and functions in some ways as an antioxidant. Olive oil, though it is somewhat fattening, is less fattening than corn or soy oil, and contains an antioxidant which makes it protective against heart disease and cancer.

Source

That being said, he extolls many, many more virtues of coconut oil throughout his work.
In my view, there is no little doubt that he considers coconut oil not only among the safest of oils to use but that it is a substance that is an important part of healthy eating for a high metabolic rate.

I've never made anything close to that determination about olive oil from studying his work. It is not something I include often in my diet (oysters are only exception.)

Saturated fats--coconut oil and butter, for example--do not promote tumor growth.[55] Olive oil is not a strong tumor promoter, but in some experiments it does have a slightly permissive effect on tumor growth.

Source: Oils in Context

That information alone is enough for me personally to avoid olive oil, although he does cite another study in a different article where the use of olive oil was shown to reduce significantly tumor incidence caused by 9,10-dimethyl-1,2-benzanthracene.

Nonetheless, I have no need for it in my own diet and much prefer the taste and results I'm having using coconut oil and butter as my sources of fat. Lately, I've been primarily using coconut oil.

This was RP's experience when he first began using coconut oil regularly in his diet.

Although I had stopped using the unsaturated seed oils years ago, and supposed that I wasn't heavily saturated with toxic unsaturated fat, when I first used coconut oil I saw an immediate response, that convinced me my metabolism was chronically inhibited by something that was easily alleviated by "dilution" or molecular competition. I had put a tablespoonful of coconut oil on some rice I had for supper, and half an hour later while I was reading, I noticed I was breathing more deeply than normal. I saw that my skin was pink, and I found that my pulse was faster than normal--about 98, I think. After an hour or two, my pulse and breathing returned to normal. Every day for a couple of weeks I noticed the same response while I was digesting a small amount of coconut oil, but gradually it didn't happen any more, and I increased my daily consumption of the oil to about an ounce. I kept eating the same foods as before (including a quart of ice cream every day), except that I added about 200 or 250 calories per day as coconut oil. Apparently the metabolic surges that happened at first were an indication that my body was compensating for an anti-thyroid substance by producing more thyroid hormone; when the coconut oil relieved the inhibition, I experienced a moment of slight hyperthyroidism, but after a time the inhibitor became less effective, and my body adjusted by producing slightly less thyroid hormone. But over the next few months, I saw that my weight was slowly and consistently decreasing. It had been steady at 185 pounds for 25 years, but over a period of six months it dropped to about 175 pounds. I found that eating more coconut oil lowered my weight another few pounds, and eating less caused it to increase.

Source: Coconut Oil

 

[Mittir]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Can you please name the article you are referring to.
RP does not recommend cooking with olive oil. Because
10% of olive oil is PUFA. He recommends 1-2 tsp olive oil in salad
only for flavor and antioxidant property. He did mention
benefits of oleic acid in several of his articles. Most MUFA in olive oil is in
oleic acid form. Here is a quote from RP
"A series of studies about 20 years ago showed that the functions of the thyroid hormone are all inhibited by unsaturated fats, with the inhibition increasing in proportion to the number of unsaturations (double bonds) in the fat molecule.'

MUFA has one double bond and Linoleic has two double bonds and Linolenic has 3
In fish oil DHA has 6 and EPA has 5 double bonds.
Prostaglandins formation from omega 6 is a major source of damage.
Oleic acid does not have this kind of effect. Yes, MUFA does
inhibit thyroid function to some degree, but would be the least harmful of all unsaturated fat.

 

[lazz]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

4petssakes is a Peat's Encyclopedia... lol..good job...thank u

 

[sladerunner69]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Why does saturated fat make my chest hurt? Does it contribute to arterioclerosis like most people say? Ive also heard it will stiffen arteries temporarily. From my own experience my chest feels mich better when Im not eating saturated fat and eating unsatirated only. I think Peat may be a bit off when he speaks about saturated fat being healthy and not being a concern for heart health.

 

[tigerlily96]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Why does saturated fat make my chest hurt? Does it contribute to arterioclerosis like most people say? Ive also heard it will stiffen arteries temporarily. From my own experience my chest feels mich better when Im not eating saturated fat and eating unsatirated only. I think Peat may be a bit off when he speaks about saturated fat being healthy and not being a concern for heart health.

That's interesting because it makes my chest hurt too, why is that?? I worry about eating saturated fat I have to admit BUT since almost stopping pufa I am so much healthier and my skin is so soft.

 

[schultz]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

In his articles Ray Peat say unsaturated fats are toxic and only saturated fat is good. He writes in the same sentence only saturated fat is good and mentions olive oil as being one, which is monosatured fat. Weird.

Is monosaturated fat in his view saturated? Than he says the that thyroid supplemantation is resonable when the ratio od saturated to unsaturated is out of the ratio 2:1.

Thas RayPeat think monosaturated fat is good to cook with, is it even stable in high temperatures?

Can you link the articles where this information is from?

 

[tigerlily96]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Wish there was an answer to this because today I had some butter and cream and again my chest slightly hurt and at the age of 48 this does worry me.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

When talking about saturated fats,usually CO and butter are mentioned. How about (red) palm oil and cacaobutter (the 2nd not for cooking obviously)? they're fairly high in saturated fat as well and palm oil contains quite some Vit.E which I suspect would negate the harmfol effects of PUFAS present in it?

Besides that,he says olive oil is a bit fattening but less than other oils. I wonder when going for MUFAS if some macadamia nuts or avocado migth actually be less fattening than olive oil? (I never cared much for the taste of olive oil anyway. The fattening part of it is confusing though bc people in The Medittareanian basically live off of it,despite eating a fair amount of carbs and they're usually not obese/overweigth. And what about all the people losing weigth on a Medittaranian Diet? I recently found articles mentioning people reversing fatty liver on reasonably high MUFA Diet.)

 

[paper_clips43]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Chest pain from fat could be related to gallbladder..

 

[Zachs]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Tigerlilly, what else did you eat with the cream and butter? Starches might be an issue, meat as well.

 

[sladerunner69]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Wish there was an answer to this because today I had some butter and cream and again my chest slightly hurt and at the age of 48 this does worry me.

Theres like tons of evidence showing that saturated fat and cholestrol intake is the cause of arterioclerosis and heart disease... I don't know why Peat doesn't write much on that issue. Heart disease is such a common problem yet he hasn't addressed it with an article. I think his anti-authoritarian stance on health and medicine has kind of a self-serving bias sometimes... as in his desire to be a rebel scientist influences his writing.

People with low cholestrol in their blood are very unlikely to have a heart attack. People who don't consume saturated fats are also very unlikely to have heart disease. Looking at traditional cultures and diets, people like the masai tribe and the french, whose cuisine includes a large amount of animal fats, sufferred from heart disease. Biopsies have shown extensive plaque build up in their arteries, and the masai ate very little pufa. Their diet is like 99% cow oriented. They eat beef, drink milk and blood. Not much pufa on the plains of the savannah.

Also eating sugar is known to raise triglycerides, another marker for heart disease. If I have any criticism of eating a high fat high sugar diet it would be that it is very concerning from a heart disease perspective. And Ive found very little in the way of answers on this forum or Peat's site.

 

[jyb]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Looking at traditional cultures and diets, people like the masai tribe and the french, whose cuisine includes a large amount of animal fats, sufferred from heart disease.

Isn't it the opposite? It's known as the French paradox. In fact there is a "paradox" named after many countries where CVD is lower despite higher sat fat intake or vice versa. Otherwise, this topic has been very widely discussed elsewhere. Do you know why cholesterol lowering drugs like statins are such a huge catastrophe?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Wish there was an answer to this because today I had some butter and cream and again my chest slightly hurt and at the age of 48 this does worry me.

Theres like tons of evidence showing that saturated fat and cholestrol intake is the cause of arterioclerosis and heart disease... I don't know why Peat doesn't write much on that issue. Heart disease is such a common problem yet he hasn't addressed it with an article. I think his anti-authoritarian stance on health and medicine has kind of a self-serving bias sometimes... as in his desire to be a rebel scientist influences his writing.

People with low cholestrol in their blood are very unlikely to have a heart attack. People who don't consume saturated fats are also very unlikely to have heart disease. Looking at traditional cultures and diets, people like the masai tribe and the french, whose cuisine includes a large amount of animal fats, sufferred from heart disease. Biopsies have shown extensive plaque build up in their arteries, and the masai ate very little pufa. Their diet is like 99% cow oriented. They eat beef, drink milk and blood. Not much pufa on the plains of the savannah.

Also eating sugar is known to raise triglycerides, another marker for heart disease. If I have any criticism of eating a high fat high sugar diet it would be that it is very concerning from a heart disease perspective. And Ive found very little in the way of answers on this forum or Peat's site.

You're gonna get a lot of heat for that one. Reference for your Masai claim? Even I think it's BS and I'm critical of SAFA too, but in a different context.

I've been critical of saturated fat recently, (mostly in cream form, any dairy fat=cream), but my context has been that the only problem with it is that it can cause fat gain on the belly, neck, thighs, and chest (not just my opinion, Peat has stated that as well from whole milk, too much butter etc.) and then in turn cause blood sugar problems and insulin resistance for having too much adipose tissue. Now that's obviously only a problem for someone who doesn't realize that they are getting fatter by the day, and then wake up one day and think "What have I done!!??." If you're someone who can eat saturated fat without getting fat then that's great. Peat eats a bit of butter and cheese daily while choosing low fat or skim milk as his milk sources. But he has clearly stated in audio interviews that you have to be careful with cheese because some are like a soft butter while others have little fat.

I don't think SAFA causes heart disease. Why would our heart choose to burn saturated fats at rest? I'm trying to find out more on that as well but it seems that its the normal physiological reaction. But wait a second, does that mean that we should be eating tons of SAFA? Well not exactly, seeing as we make our own saturated, monounsaturated, and omega-9 fats from sugar. Let me repeat that: we make our own saturated, monounsaturated,a and omega-9 fats from sugar. I think this is an important point that can't be ignored. Any references will be appreciated. What is the process, as in what enzymes convert sugar into those fats and where does it happen etc.?

PUFA causes heart disease. In one of the audio interviews with Peat, Sarah from the Herb Doctors talks about a recent study in Japan where they cut open the arterie of a person with atherosclerosis and they found little balls of cholesterol, but there was PUFA vegetable oil inside of the cholesterol.

People who get heart disease eat PUFA in these forms:

Mayonaise, all salad dressings (the first ingredient in salad dressing and mayo is pure oil), margarine all snack foods and potato chips (but it's not the potatoes that are the problem, its the oil they are cooked in same thing with "fried" rice, its the oil, not the rice), baked goods like donuts, pastries, and cakes have huge amounts of PUFA, restaurant food, fried food, pizza dough is made with oil, soups from restaurants are made with lots of oil (and homemade soups too, by people who think oil is good for them), supplements like fish oil, evening primrose oil, flax oil etc.

 

[freal]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

You know, somebody just resurected a two year old topic I started in 2013.

The chest pain is probably acid reflux eating away your esophagus. This is what so so so many peatarians ended up with, including me. There were so so many people talking about it on peatarian.com.

The liver just gets clogged up.

 

[BobbyDukes]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

You know, somebody just resurected a two year old topic I started in 2013.

The chest pain is probably acid reflux eating away your esophagus. This is what so so so many peatarians ended up with, including me. There were so so many people talking about it on peatarian.com.

The liver just gets clogged up.

Yet I've read from Peat that saturated fat is GOOD for the liver. How can it be protective for alcoholics, if it clogs the liver, fattens it up, and makes it run less efficiently?

I feel best keeping fat to extremely low levels. This limits my food choices quite a bit though, being that I eat no starch, and try to stick to Peat's advisory guidelines.

 

[freal]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

I dont know, I tried explaining to people at peatarian but I got nowhere, it just used up my time and energy.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

 

[Mittir]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Yet I've read from Peat that saturated fat is GOOD for the liver. How can it be protective for alcoholics, if it clogs the liver, fattens it up, and makes it run less efficiently?

I feel best keeping fat to extremely low levels. This limits my food choices quite a bit though, being that I eat no starch, and try to stick to Peat's advisory guidelines.

PUFA damages all the organs, including liver. Poor function of liver is readily felt as it
worsens many other health issues. Niacinamide improves liver function by lowering
PUFA release in the form of free fatty acids. If the free fatty acid is mostly comprised
of saturated fat then liver and other organs are not harmed.

I think RP's idea of saturated fat stored in liver is protective by inhibiting PUFA's use
in the liver. One can have fatty liver on fat free diet, extra carbohydrate can also cause
fatty liver. According to RP this is pure saturated fat, thus not harmful. He is not suggesting
we all have fatty liver. He is simply pointing out that PUFA stored in body including liver is
harmful compared to saturated fat. If one's body is relatively PUFA free then having saturated
fat in liver does not have any special benefit.

A low fat high carb diet increases metabolism compared to high fat diet and this minimizes
the chance of having fat storage in organs.

 

[XPlus]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Mittir,

RP recommends Niacinamide to limit PUFA release from overwhelming the liver.
Do you think Niacinamide also delays the process of burning fat at rest by muscles.

 

[Mittir]

Re: Confused on Ray Peat view on fats

Mittir,

RP recommends Niacinamide to limit PUFA release from overwhelming the liver.
Do you think Niacinamide also delays the process of burning fat at rest by muscles.

That is the way i understand the mechanism. Cells through out the body uses FFA to burn as energy,
IIRC brain cells are an exception. I have used niacinamide for about 2 years straight and then stopped using 6 months ago and letting stored PUFA out. Before using niacinamide i could not go without food more than 7-8 hours and after using i could stay away from food for 10-12 hours. Now i can avoid food for 13-14 hours without feeling bad. So, i think my liver has healed a lot from using Niacinaimde. I think i will start using niacinamide again if i feel like liver is not working properly.