Confused About Effects Of Tiromel

[cout12]

So I never tried Cytomel but I ordered some Tiromel and I'm confused about the effects I'm getting. I've been using it for 3 weeks and tried a few different doses, 5mg to 25mg a few times a day. My pulse is always about 80 and my temp is 96 when waking and avg 97.5 during the day. At the end I was mostly taking 5mg a few times a day.

The tiromel didn't change my temp or pulse significantly enough for me to notice. I got a few other effects that could be unrelated but I still feel them. I now stopped the tiromel and the effects changed. So the effects were on Tiromel I felt depressed, my heart would feel like it was beating uncomfortably fast sometimes (maybe adrenaline?), my sinuses felt better, I think my body odor were better (acidity of my body?), my acne seemed better, I didn't weight myself but I feel like my bodyfat was lower, or maybe water retention or something that affects the way my body looks.

Anyway I stopped taking it because I feel like it was making me depressed and it sucked but I'm confused about all the effects I'm getting and why my temp didn't get better.

 

[tara]

Is Tiromel T3? T3 has a short half-life (a few hours), and the body only produces 3-4mg/hour. In which case 5mg is a highish dose, and 25mg is very high. I'm not expert in this, but I would expect the body might try to defend itself against such high doses, by doing various other things to counter the attempt to increase metabolism too much. Too much T3 and/or too high adrenaline could explain fast pulse.

 

[cout12]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96103/ Is Tiromel T3? T3 has a short half-life (a few hours), and the body only produces 3-4mg/hour. In which case 5mg is a highish dose, and 25mg is very high. I'm not expert in this, but I would expect the body might try to defend itself against such high doses, by doing various other things to counter the attempt to increase metabolism too much. Too much T3 and/or too high adrenaline could explain fast pulse.

Yeah it is supposedly T3. I read that the usual does is 25 to 100mg a day so that's why I was taking that amount. Maybe I should try with less.

 

[tara]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96113/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96103/ Is Tiromel T3? T3 has a short half-life (a few hours), and the body only produces 3-4mg/hour. In which case 5mg is a highish dose, and 25mg is very high. I'm not expert in this, but I would expect the body might try to defend itself against such high doses, by doing various other things to counter the attempt to increase metabolism too much. Too much T3 and/or too high adrenaline could explain fast pulse.

Yeah it is supposedly T3. I read that the usual does is 25 to 100mg a day so that's why I was taking that amount. Maybe I should try with less.

Whoops, just realised we've been talking about mg, but I think it should be mcg.

Usual dose recommended by the manufacturer, or by whom? Peat has suggested nibbling tiny bits of a 25mcg T3 tablet every hour or two through the day as you need it - I was guessing he meant ~1-2mcg at a time, several times a day. I think there are quite a few here who split their 25mcg T3 pills into tiny bits. (Unlike T4, which has long half-life, and may be useful in the evening to get through the night.)

 

[sweetpeat]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96113/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96103/ Is Tiromel T3? T3 has a short half-life (a few hours), and the body only produces 3-4mg/hour. In which case 5mg is a highish dose, and 25mg is very high. I'm not expert in this, but I would expect the body might try to defend itself against such high doses, by doing various other things to counter the attempt to increase metabolism too much. Too much T3 and/or too high adrenaline could explain fast pulse.

Yeah it is supposedly T3. I read that the usual does is 25 to 100mg a day so that's why I was taking that amount. Maybe I should try with less.

Whoops, just realised we've been talking about mg, but I think it should be mcg.

Usual dose recommended by the manufacturer, or by whom? Peat has suggested nibbling tiny bits of a 25mcg T3 tablet every hour or two through the day as you need it - I was guessing he meant ~1-2mcg at a time, several times a day. I think there are quite a few here who split their 25mcg T3 pills into tiny bits. (Unlike T4, which has long half-life, and may be useful in the evening to get through the night.)

Yes, I personally find taking 1-2mcg at a time to be more effective than a larger dose. Especially for raising temperature. Though by the time I discovered this, I was also getting more sunlight/red light so maybe that was a factor as well. Are you able to get much sunlight where you are, cout12?

Another thought is that I think Peat recommends cholesterol levels of at least 180 before starting thyroid. And 200 is even better. Have you checked your cholesterol lately?

 

[ilovethesea]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96044/ So I never tried Cytomel but I ordered some Tiromel and I'm confused about the effects I'm getting. I've been using it for 3 weeks and tried a few different doses, 5mg to 25mg a few times a day. My pulse is always about 80 and my temp is 96 when waking and avg 97.5 during the day. At the end I was mostly taking 5mg a few times a day.

The tiromel didn't change my temp or pulse significantly enough for me to notice. I got a few other effects that could be unrelated but I still feel them. I now stopped the tiromel and the effects changed. So the effects were on Tiromel I felt depressed, my heart would feel like it was beating uncomfortably fast sometimes (maybe adrenaline?), my sinuses felt better, I think my body odor were better (acidity of my body?), my acne seemed better, I didn't weight myself but I feel like my bodyfat was lower, or maybe water retention or something that affects the way my body looks.

Anyway I stopped taking it because I feel like it was making me depressed and it sucked but I'm confused about all the effects I'm getting and why my temp didn't get better.

This sounds like it increased your metabolic rate but you didn't have enough fuel, hence the stress symptoms. How much are you eating? If you try it again, I would increase cals, protein, sugars, never let yourself go hungry... don't take the T3 if you aren't able to eat. I had very similar symptoms when I started ramping up thyroid and could not figure out why... turns out I was undereating by quite a lot (around 1800 cals when it should be 2200 minimum for a female). Now I never ever get adrenaline.

 

[cout12]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96489/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96044/ So I never tried Cytomel but I ordered some Tiromel and I'm confused about the effects I'm getting. I've been using it for 3 weeks and tried a few different doses, 5mg to 25mg a few times a day. My pulse is always about 80 and my temp is 96 when waking and avg 97.5 during the day. At the end I was mostly taking 5mg a few times a day.

The tiromel didn't change my temp or pulse significantly enough for me to notice. I got a few other effects that could be unrelated but I still feel them. I now stopped the tiromel and the effects changed. So the effects were on Tiromel I felt depressed, my heart would feel like it was beating uncomfortably fast sometimes (maybe adrenaline?), my sinuses felt better, I think my body odor were better (acidity of my body?), my acne seemed better, I didn't weight myself but I feel like my bodyfat was lower, or maybe water retention or something that affects the way my body looks.

Anyway I stopped taking it because I feel like it was making me depressed and it sucked but I'm confused about all the effects I'm getting and why my temp didn't get better.

This sounds like it increased your metabolic rate but you didn't have enough fuel, hence the stress symptoms. How much are you eating? If you try it again, I would increase cals, protein, sugars, never let yourself go hungry... don't take the T3 if you aren't able to eat. I had very similar symptoms when I started ramping up thyroid and could not figure out why... turns out I was undereating by quite a lot (around 1800 cals when it should be 2200 minimum for a female). Now I never ever get adrenaline.

Interesting. I always eat until I'm full and I eat quite a lot so I don't think calories are the problem, but maybe I should eat even more I don't know. I definitely get enough sugar and fat. Maybe not enough protein. I tried again this time with the smallest dose I've ever taken, probably 1-2mcg and I still got the same heart beating too fast reaction, and my temp and pulse stayed pretty much the same. I was at 97.7 beforehand and in the next 30 minutes it only went up and down from 97.3 to 97.8. Pulse stayed at 80 the whole time.

I'm thinking of not taking it ever again. Doesn't seem to be working for me.

 

[cout12]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96172/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96113/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96103/ Is Tiromel T3? T3 has a short half-life (a few hours), and the body only produces 3-4mg/hour. In which case 5mg is a highish dose, and 25mg is very high. I'm not expert in this, but I would expect the body might try to defend itself against such high doses, by doing various other things to counter the attempt to increase metabolism too much. Too much T3 and/or too high adrenaline could explain fast pulse.

Yeah it is supposedly T3. I read that the usual does is 25 to 100mg a day so that's why I was taking that amount. Maybe I should try with less.

Whoops, just realised we've been talking about mg, but I think it should be mcg.

Usual dose recommended by the manufacturer, or by whom? Peat has suggested nibbling tiny bits of a 25mcg T3 tablet every hour or two through the day as you need it - I was guessing he meant ~1-2mcg at a time, several times a day. I think there are quite a few here who split their 25mcg T3 pills into tiny bits. (Unlike T4, which has long half-life, and may be useful in the evening to get through the night.)

Yes, I personally find taking 1-2mcg at a time to be more effective than a larger dose. Especially for raising temperature. Though by the time I discovered this, I was also getting more sunlight/red light so maybe that was a factor as well. Are you able to get much sunlight where you are, cout12?

Another thought is that I think Peat recommends cholesterol levels of at least 180 before starting thyroid. And 200 is even better. Have you checked your cholesterol lately?

I haven't, don't really have money for the test and I eat so much sugar I don't know what else I could do to improve it.

 

[ilovethesea]

post 96614

post 96489

post 96044 So I never tried Cytomel but I ordered some Tiromel and I'm confused about the effects I'm getting. I've been using it for 3 weeks and tried a few different doses, 5mg to 25mg a few times a day. My pulse is always about 80 and my temp is 96 when waking and avg 97.5 during the day. At the end I was mostly taking 5mg a few times a day.

The tiromel didn't change my temp or pulse significantly enough for me to notice. I got a few other effects that could be unrelated but I still feel them. I now stopped the tiromel and the effects changed. So the effects were on Tiromel I felt depressed, my heart would feel like it was beating uncomfortably fast sometimes (maybe adrenaline?), my sinuses felt better, I think my body odor were better (acidity of my body?), my acne seemed better, I didn't weight myself but I feel like my bodyfat was lower, or maybe water retention or something that affects the way my body looks.

Anyway I stopped taking it because I feel like it was making me depressed and it sucked but I'm confused about all the effects I'm getting and why my temp didn't get better.

This sounds like it increased your metabolic rate but you didn't have enough fuel, hence the stress symptoms. How much are you eating? If you try it again, I would increase cals, protein, sugars, never let yourself go hungry... don't take the T3 if you aren't able to eat. I had very similar symptoms when I started ramping up thyroid and could not figure out why... turns out I was undereating by quite a lot (around 1800 cals when it should be 2200 minimum for a female). Now I never ever get adrenaline.

Interesting. I always eat until I'm full and I eat quite a lot so I don't think calories are the problem, but maybe I should eat even more I don't know. I definitely get enough sugar and fat. Maybe not enough protein. I tried again this time with the smallest dose I've ever taken, probably 1-2mcg and I still got the same heart beating too fast reaction, and my temp and pulse stayed pretty much the same. I was at 97.7 beforehand and in the next 30 minutes it only went up and down from 97.3 to 97.8. Pulse stayed at 80 the whole time.

I'm thinking of not taking it ever again. Doesn't seem to be working for me.

Did you take it with food?

Ray talked about the heart beating in the Peatarian quotes.

[HIGH HEART RATE AFTER T3] I think regular use of the pregnenolone might help. Are you getting enough milk, and salting your food to taste? Do you have some sea food regularly? (For trace minerals.)
Have you tried taking the small amounts of T3 at different intervals, sooner until the symptoms are gone, then longer intervals until they return? TSH is likely to be high early in the morning, and as it subsides during the day the amount of T3 needed might decrease.

Also look into magnesium, I had saved this Ray quote but not sure where it was from.

"sometimes i think the products change and European thyroid supplements are unpredictable. Magnesium Deficiency can cause those symptoms. Thyroid makes your cells able to use magnesium and take it up. Big organs like your skeletal muscles and bones can take up so much from your blood that your heart and brain have trouble getting any magnesium they need to respond to the thyroid and then you get an exaggerated stress of adrenaline. Doses of about 100mg magnesium at a time as you take the 1 - 2 mcg cytomel. 100mg will be enough for a few hours to respond the the dose of thyroid."

 

[cout12]

post 98648

post 96614

post 96489

post 96044 So I never tried Cytomel but I ordered some Tiromel and I'm confused about the effects I'm getting. I've been using it for 3 weeks and tried a few different doses, 5mg to 25mg a few times a day. My pulse is always about 80 and my temp is 96 when waking and avg 97.5 during the day. At the end I was mostly taking 5mg a few times a day.

The tiromel didn't change my temp or pulse significantly enough for me to notice. I got a few other effects that could be unrelated but I still feel them. I now stopped the tiromel and the effects changed. So the effects were on Tiromel I felt depressed, my heart would feel like it was beating uncomfortably fast sometimes (maybe adrenaline?), my sinuses felt better, I think my body odor were better (acidity of my body?), my acne seemed better, I didn't weight myself but I feel like my bodyfat was lower, or maybe water retention or something that affects the way my body looks.

Anyway I stopped taking it because I feel like it was making me depressed and it sucked but I'm confused about all the effects I'm getting and why my temp didn't get better.

This sounds like it increased your metabolic rate but you didn't have enough fuel, hence the stress symptoms. How much are you eating? If you try it again, I would increase cals, protein, sugars, never let yourself go hungry... don't take the T3 if you aren't able to eat. I had very similar symptoms when I started ramping up thyroid and could not figure out why... turns out I was undereating by quite a lot (around 1800 cals when it should be 2200 minimum for a female). Now I never ever get adrenaline.

Interesting. I always eat until I'm full and I eat quite a lot so I don't think calories are the problem, but maybe I should eat even more I don't know. I definitely get enough sugar and fat. Maybe not enough protein. I tried again this time with the smallest dose I've ever taken, probably 1-2mcg and I still got the same heart beating too fast reaction, and my temp and pulse stayed pretty much the same. I was at 97.7 beforehand and in the next 30 minutes it only went up and down from 97.3 to 97.8. Pulse stayed at 80 the whole time.

I'm thinking of not taking it ever again. Doesn't seem to be working for me.

Did you take it with food?

Ray talked about the heart beating in the Peatarian quotes.

[HIGH HEART RATE AFTER T3] I think regular use of the pregnenolone might help. Are you getting enough milk, and salting your food to taste? Do you have some sea food regularly? (For trace minerals.)
Have you tried taking the small amounts of T3 at different intervals, sooner until the symptoms are gone, then longer intervals until they return? TSH is likely to be high early in the morning, and as it subsides during the day the amount of T3 needed might decrease.

Also look into magnesium, I had saved this Ray quote but not sure where it was from.

"sometimes i think the products change and European thyroid supplements are unpredictable. Magnesium Deficiency can cause those symptoms. Thyroid makes your cells able to use magnesium and take it up. Big organs like your skeletal muscles and bones can take up so much from your blood that your heart and brain have trouble getting any magnesium they need to respond to the thyroid and then you get an exaggerated stress of adrenaline. Doses of about 100mg magnesium at a time as you take the 1 - 2 mcg cytomel. 100mg will be enough for a few hours to respond the the dose of thyroid."

interesting. I will try the magnesium thing. I'm not sure I understand the interval thing. I tried taking it a bunch of times and I always get exaggerated heartbeats I'm not sure how intervals would help?

 

[tara]

post 96614 I tried again this time with the smallest dose I've ever taken, probably 1-2mcg and I still got the same heart beating too fast reaction, and my temp and pulse stayed pretty much the same. I was at 97.7 beforehand and in the next 30 minutes it only went up and down from 97.3 to 97.8. Pulse stayed at 80 the whole time.

I don't understand this. Did your pulse stay the same (80bpm) before and after the small T3 dose, or did you also get an extra fast heartbeat at some stage? Or are you seeing 80bpm as too fast?

 

[cout12]

post 99056

post 96614 I tried again this time with the smallest dose I've ever taken, probably 1-2mcg and I still got the same heart beating too fast reaction, and my temp and pulse stayed pretty much the same. I was at 97.7 beforehand and in the next 30 minutes it only went up and down from 97.3 to 97.8. Pulse stayed at 80 the whole time.

I don't understand this. Did your pulse stay the same (80bpm) before and after the small T3 dose, or did you also get an extra fast heartbeat at some stage? Or are you seeing 80bpm as too fast?

My pulse doesn't actually increase, but I just get a weird feeling in my chest like my heart is beating faster or harder, it seems like adrenaline because it's the same way I feel when I get some bad news that makes me nervous or something. It's a very uncomfortable feeling. It happens to me very rarely if I don't take it. Maximum 1 time per month, but as soon as I take Tiromel I get it.

 

[sweetpeat]

My pulse doesn't actually increase, but I just get a weird feeling in my chest like my heart is beating faster or harder, it seems like adrenaline because it's the same way I feel when I get some bad news that makes me nervous or something. It's a very uncomfortable feeling. It happens to me very rarely if I don't take it. Maximum 1 time per month, but as soon as I take Tiromel I get it.

That sounds like heart palpitations. Taking thyroid meds can sometimes reveal high stress hormones which can cause palpitations. If you do a forum search for "thyroid and adrenaline" or "palpitations" you'll find a lot of posts about it with ideas on what to do.

 

[sweetpeat]

^To add to the above: sometimes the stress hormones themselves cause hypothyroid symptoms because they inhibit your own thyroid production and/or conversion of t4 to t3. If you can get the stress hormones under control, you may find you don't even need the thyroid meds. No guarantees, of course; it depends on your own context. But just thought I'd mention it.

 

[cout12]

post 99149 ^To add to the above: sometimes the stress hormones themselves cause hypothyroid symptoms because they inhibit your own thyroid production and/or conversion of t4 to t3. If you can get the stress hormones under control, you may find you don't even need the thyroid meds. No guarantees, of course; it depends on your own context. But just thought I'd mention it.

interesting. how would you go about reducing stress hormones though?

 

[sweetpeat]

interesting. how would you go about reducing stress hormones though?

There are different substances and tips mentioned in the forum that help lower the stress hormones. It's probably going to take quite a bit of detective work on your part and experimenting on yourself because everyone is different. The same thing doesn't necessarily work for everyone because we all have different bodies with different issues. You might have a deficiency somewhere causing stress or you might have inflammation somewhere causing stress. Also, not getting enough calories or overtraining your body is another source of stress that sometimes gets overlooked.

The easiest place to start might be digestion. If some food or supplement is irritating your gut, it can cause high serotonin. Or, if you are often constipated, then estrogen isn't getting eliminated from your body. Many people use the carrot salad for this.

Other things to consider: Are you getting enough sleep? Enough sunlight? Anything in your personal life causing stress?

 

[ilovethesea]

My pulse doesn't actually increase, but I just get a weird feeling in my chest like my heart is beating faster or harder, it seems like adrenaline because it's the same way I feel when I get some bad news that makes me nervous or something. It's a very uncomfortable feeling. It happens to me very rarely if I don't take it. Maximum 1 time per month, but as soon as I take Tiromel I get it.

I am certain I had the exact same feelings you describe, it's almost like the beginning of a panic feeling. I found it would get even worse when I was under the slightest stress, eg. doctor's visits or any uncomfortable situation. Even walking too fast in a rush to get somewhere.

And I would always get it when I took thyroid without eating enough.

These are the things I changed:

- smaller doses... so instead of 4mcg of T3, I took 2mcg at a time
- never taking thyroid on an empty stomach
- eating every hour a little bit of protein and carb
- 1 cup of white sugar a day in addition to whatever fruits, juice, dairy (to build up glycogen stores)
- low dose cypro every night
- at least 2200 cals (for a female)

I don't know which was the thing that worked, maybe it was a combo of everything.

 

[tomisonbottom]

I am certain I had the exact same feelings you describe, it's almost like the beginning of a panic feeling. I found it would get even worse when I was under the slightest stress, eg. doctor's visits or any uncomfortable situation. Even walking too fast in a rush to get somewhere.

And I would always get it when I took thyroid without eating enough.

These are the things I changed:

- smaller doses... so instead of 4mcg of T3, I took 2mcg at a time
- never taking thyroid on an empty stomach
- eating every hour a little bit of protein and carb
- 1 cup of white sugar a day in addition to whatever fruits, juice, dairy (to build up glycogen stores)
- low dose cypro every night
- at least 2200 cals (for a female)

I don't know which was the thing that worked, maybe it was a combo of everything.

How much was your "low dose" of Cypro? And did the cup of sugar work to build up glycogen stores?

 

[ilovethesea]

How much was your "low dose" of Cypro? And did the cup of sugar work to build up glycogen stores?

I was taking 1-2mg of cypro every night for many months. I quit a few weeks ago because it's making me gain too much weight.

I'm not eating as much white sugar now, more milk/chocolate milk and fruit. I don't know how to measure the glycogen, but I don't get any adrenaline problems with thyroid. Mind you, I can no longer get Grossman so it could also be that I'm taking Tiromel now which is weaker!

 

[burtlancast]

interesting. how would you go about reducing stress hormones though?

Ray's Quick Therapy Diet: 2 Quarts Of Milk And 2 Quarts Of Orange Juice Per Day

In this recent interview transcript (Cholesterol Is An Important Molecule, KMUD, 2008) Ray talks about a fit-for-all quick therapy diet destined to get the thyroid and the liver going, to suppress inflammation, and to lower chronic blood pressure.

HD2: So, a high-calcium diet, in conjunction with a high protein diet, and a high-fruit diet is what basically what you're suggesting?

RP: Yah. That's why, as a quick therapy diet, I recommend a person having at least two quarts of milk and two quarts of orange juice every day to get the thyroid going and suppress inflammation and help the liver regulate things.

HD2: When you recommend that to people, do you recommend that they have it in place of breakfast and lunch? Or as well as their normal three meals a day?

RP: As it starts working, it will increase their caloric needs, so that if they had been maintaining their weight on 1,000 or 1,500 calories, as the milk and orange juice start to activate their thyroid hormone and lower the estrogen and cortisol, they will gradually be able to increase their caloric intake up to at least 2,000 calories a day.

HD2: Well that's quite incredible.

RP: We haven't said much about high blood pressure. But the same diet, increasing your thyroid function, regulates the mineral balance. Such that it lowers your adrenaline, lowers the sympathetic nervous system activity’, and allows the minerals to be balanced with water. So that increased thyroid function lowers blood pressure (although many doctors have been misled on this issue).