Confused about Caffeine

[Bladezz]

Hi everyone, I wanted to post this topic because it has been on my mind obsessively for the past couple weeks. I read Ray peat and Haidut's studies on caffeine and got real excited at the prospect of caffeine because I usually feel better cognitively and less anxiety on average when using caffeine. On the other hand, sometimes I don't sleep that well, the tech before bed doesent help but sometimes my sleep is real bad, which makes me wonder if caffeine could be the culprit.

I guess my question is is there a great benefit to caffeine over long run? i remember reading haidut saying the liver gets cleaned, and the stress lowers eventually but it takes a bit? So many conflicting stuff I get confused and my brain wants to find an answer or I just freeze and dont take action.

Any advice or personal stories would be appreciated. Thank you so much

 

[MetabolicTrash]

It's like with any there is a sweet spot. Some go overboard and want to banish it, while others dial down and re-invite it gradually back in to continue reaping the benefits.

If there are more downsides vs. benefits it's time to dial it down maybe. A good trial could be to only drink something like say coffee with a meal at a certain time of the day where it's most optimal as opposed to a random shot consistently to "power on" as some people use it coffee or caffeine for (which can be more harmful).

I think -- since caffeine can be both excitatory and inhibitory -- it's a matter of balancing the scales, i.e., too easily going in one way vs. balancing out the other.

The "harm" of caffeine is in part the overexcitation effect I think, which should be canceled out more by diet, lifestyle, or other supplements. Sometimes you need a break from overexcitation maybe -- something like theanine, hormones, or just laying off certain activities and such to have some downtime or inhibition. Ideally you want the best of both worlds from most things, but sometimes you have to split things apart and play different angles on how to approach benefits vs. risks, downsides, etc.

It would be nice if everything was either only good or bad, but as I've learned/come to understand, almost anything "good" can become bad, and even some "bad" can create good too.

 

[nomoreketones]

Caffeine is bad for your health if it produces a stress response in you and good for your health if it doesn't produce a stress response in you.

 

[Bladezz]

Thanks for the replies guys. I vacilate between quitting and using 4 or more cups. I slept 10 hours today for example because I didn't have any coffee. Now the headaches are real.

 

[nomoreketones]

Thanks for the replies guys. I vacilate between quitting and using 4 or more cups. I slept 10 hours today for example because I didn't have any coffee. Now the headaches are real.

Caffeine withdrawal is real. The headaches will probably last a couple of days. You will probably feel tired for weeks until your body has a chance to upregulate your adenosine receptors.

 

[tankasnowgod]

So, I have been interested in caffeine again, too. I've been ramping up doses the past week.

I have quite a bit of caffeine powder left from when you could still get it. So, I am using a combo of coffee and the powder.

I ordered the powder a few years ago, and (foolishly) took a really big dose soon after, and got a nasty stress response. It felt like what I imagine SSRI learned helplessness or serotonin syndrome feels like- like my face was blank to the world, the "real me" was trapped behind 6 inches of thick plastic screaming out for a response, but no one can hear. Luckily, that only lasted for an hour or two, but that was something I did not want to repeat. I put the powder away for a while.

Looking back, I don't think I took it with adequate carbs/sugar, and the dose may have been as high as 500mg. Not surprising that would have caused a stress response, especially in someone who isn't adapted.

I was a coffee drinker then and now, and currently drink about 2-3 cups a day (usually two), so I imagine I get 200-300mg of caffeine there, more like 200mg most days. Some days, I also have a pepsi, so add in 40mg to that.

About a week ago, I decided to ramp up caffeine by using additional powder. I started by adding 100mg with breakfast and lunch (which are usually high sugar low fat meals, with protein), and quickly ramped up. I am up to 300mg each meal now, only 5 or so days later (I would add 50mg each day, sometimes 50mg each meal). I have felt remarkably good, I will probably hold at this level for the rest of the week, and might make the next ramp up this weekend. So now, with the powder and coffee (and maybe a pepsi), I am doing 800-950mg a day. Ramped up quick, no serious negatives this time. I'm curious at holding at this dose or higher, for the liver clearing benefits, potential energy, and going higher for the uncoupling effects.

Obviously, @haidut's posts are gold for this, but I also look for comments from @theLaw in this area. It seems even if you do this higher dose caffiene for a while (maybe a few weeks to a month), there are some significant lasting benefits. If it helps clean/defat the liver, that really isn't surprising.

 

[Uselis]

Store bought coffee lowers my mood significantly these daya. However my mom has some coffee press machine and , man, the effect from it I get each time! Like I am drinking coffee for the first time. To feel constantly like I feel after such coffee would be my only wish if I'd accidentally stumble on a genie bottle.

 

[equipoise]

Caffeine works good for me mostly when I've had good sleep, low stress, etc etc. Then it's amazing, it works as a thyroid mimetic as it should, it doesn't amp me up, it makes me warmer, raises heart beat, nukes any "learned helplesness", makes me grow chest hair, makes me have to shave twice a day etc. Just the best supplement you could ever ingest.

Then there's a dark side of caffeine which happens when I've had some bad days with moderate stress, lots of waking up in the night and ***t. It just feels like some bad street speed and it actually makes me cold and cranky. Wired but tired.

Point being, after years and years of trial and error with coffee, I've learned to listen to my gut telling me when I'm okay to have. Some days I'm borderline ingesting 2g of caffeine, some none.

 

[andrewlee224]

I pretty much always feel better after 1 or 2 cups of coffee. Then I'm thinking that I'll feel even better after 3rd (usually do feel better), 4th (not so much).. so I have to make a hard rule that I'm drinking up to 3 per day. Although the next one is always so alluring.. but I do feel better long-term if I don't go overboard.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Recently, I started drinking coffee with dinner. I sometimes also take 100mg of the powder with dinner as well. This hasn't caused any issues sleeping so far.

I think the higher caffeine intake has helped to clean out my liver quite a bit. I'll often feel light and energetic throughout the day.