Confession -- Forgot About Peating

EIRE24

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My take on abx is they can be good or bad. Like most things. Abx doesn't discriminate between good and bad bacteria when it kills...it kills them all. Then it's up to you to ensure that the beneficial bacteria achieve and sustain the upper hand.

If you take abx and then put a bunch of rancid PUFA, processed, shelf-stable preserved food into your body after you take it, then you're probably going to be a lot worse off and wind up with a really poor ratio of good : bad gut bacteria.

But if you take abx and then put healthy, whole food into your body, you're probably going to be okay. You may also need some beneficial probiotics, which I also used after I got done with the abx. Probiotic can be a dirty word around here but they helped me a lot and I think many people need them. But they're not a forever measure. Episodic only.

IMO the key to gut health is a clean food supply. Which means no processed, preserved crap, esp. after killing a bunch of gut flora with abx.
Sound like very sound advice. I'm guessing by healthy food you're not just specifically talking about what Ray reccomends to eat? Starch would fall under this too?
I like cold white rice with some coconut oil, pickled ginger (Ginger People Pickled Ginger, yum), and seaweed flakes. Doubleplus good if you eat it with shrimp. Ginger People pickled ginger is made with real sugar, not HFCS. Chilling the white rice has the advantage of making resistant starch, which can actually get down into the long stretches of the colon. Supposed to be good for the good guys to feed on. But without the additional problems that just fiber can cause in the small intestine. Works for me. Others' mileage may vary.
Can the bad guys feed on the resistant starch too or is it just in favour of the good guys?
 

Atalanta

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I often see on the forum that people can do well when they make a switch from sugar to starch and I wonder if it has to do with eating a bit more fat or salt, or even an increase in calories, with this type of carbohydrate. I tend not to salt fruit or add butter to my fruit when I eat it, but I always do when I eat potatoes or rice. Fat could slow the absorption of the starch and help satiate an individual.

Just some thoughts...

Maybe it is that starch is simply better for many people than simple sugars. Most of the healthy people I know eat lots of starch and vegetables. In particular, all the healthy old people I know eat bread, rice, potatoes, corn and even legumes. I also know healthy old people who eat lots of chicken and bacon and definitely ingest more than 5 grams of PUFA daily. I am sorry that no one here knows any healthy people who eat starch-based diets with vegetables and without lots of milk, coconut oil and soda. They do exist.

I eat starch without fat and I actually use less salt/sodium now than I did when I was following a Peat-style diet. I look and feel much better now. 2000 calories of starch, for example, is much more satiating for me than 2000 calories of orange juice, watermelon, bananas, soda, or any other simple sugar.
 

whodathunkit

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Can the bad guys feed on the resistant starch too or is it just in favour of the good guys?
Yes. But what seems to happen is once you kill a lot of bad guys, it's easier for good guys to attain and maintain dominance, as long as you support them with whole, healthy food. Also maybe some exogenous probiotics immediately after a microbe-killing regimen, although that would depend on individual circumstance. Some of us might need probx, some not.

Also, if the imbalanced ration of good : bad bacteria isn't that bad, just eating clean seems to give some folks all they need to correct the imbalance. Others of us (me) aren't so lucky.

Peaty, low PUFA starches (white rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes) definitely fall into healthy category.
 

EIRE24

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Yes. But what seems to happen is once you kill a lot of bad guys, it's easier for good guys to attain and maintain dominance, as long as you support them with whole, healthy food. Also maybe some exogenous probiotics immediately after a microbe-killing regimen, although that would depend on individual circumstance. Some of us might need probx, some not.

Also, if the imbalanced ration of good : bad bacteria isn't that bad, just eating clean seems to give some folks all they need to correct the imbalance. Others of us (me) aren't so lucky.

Peaty, low PUFA starches (white rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes) definitely fall into healthy category.
Cool. So I guess if you think you have an abundance of the bad guys RS isn't a good idea.

Is it possible to take probiotics regardless of wether or not you've killed the bad guys and feed these good guys some RS to help dominate the bad guys?
 

SQu

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I often see on the forum that people can do well when they make a switch from sugar to starch and I wonder if it has to do with eating a bit more fat or salt, or even an increase in calories, with this type of carbohydrate
I'm counting, so I know it's not more calories or fat (actually less because I'm more comfortable, don't need them), but I definitely have more salt.
 

whodathunkit

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Is it possible to take probiotics regardless of wether or not you've killed the bad guys and feed these good guys some RS to help dominate the bad guys?
You can try. IME if the imbalance is too tilted towards the bad bacteria then you're just throwing your money away. IMO the best thing to do is clean them out and then deliberately replenish the good guys, whether it be with probx or just clean eating. Can't emphasize enough that what works best is very individual. Your best strategy may well be different than mine.

So I guess if you think you have an abundance of the bad guys RS isn't a good idea.
IME it depends on how bad the imbalance is. I've heard of people who improved long-term, seemingly healed permanently (with the caveat that nothing is permanent), with just RS. Some with RS and probiotics. Then some are like me who showed some improvement with RS and probx but weren't healed. I needed to clean out before my gut dysbiosis seemed to resolve entirely.

After everything I've been through if I had it to do all over, I'd clean myself out first with short-term abx and some anti-candida protocol (at least a month, more like two, maybe three depending on progress), and then use RS and probx for a short time to replenish the good guys. YMMV.

Also can't emphasize enough that in order to heal ourselves with these alternative, self-directed methods, we *must* get comfortable with listening to our bodies and trying things, and then living with the consequences and moving on if our strategy doesn't work. Being immobilized by anxiety because we might be making the wrong choice or make things worse won't net us any improvement...even if it is an understandable feeling. :) Researching thoroughly before jumping in with both feet based on what a couple people on a forum say is always the best course of action.
 

InChristAlone

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Also can't emphasize enough that in order to heal ourselves with these alternative, self-directed methods, we *must* get comfortable with listening to our bodies and trying things, and then living with the consequences and moving on if our strategy doesn't work. Being immobilized by anxiety because we might be making the wrong choice or make things worse won't net us any improvement...even if it is an understandable feeling. :) Researching thoroughly before jumping in with both feet based on what a couple people on a forum say is always the best course of action.
Well said! It can be soo hard though in figuring out the best course of action! I think I need a day of meditation per decision lol.
 

kaybb

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I like cold white rice with some coconut oil, pickled ginger (Ginger People Pickled Ginger, yum), and seaweed flakes. Doubleplus good if you eat it with shrimp. Ginger People pickled ginger is made with real sugar, not HFCS. Chilling the white rice has the advantage of making resistant starch, which can actually get down into the long stretches of the colon. Supposed to be good for the good guys to feed on. But without the additional problems that just fiber can cause in the small intestine. Works for me. Others' mileage may vary.
I just listened to Ray Peat on a radio program saying he doesn't believe there are "good" bacteria. A sterile gut would be best. Interesting, as like you mention, we have been taught differently.
 

whodathunkit

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I just listened to Ray Peat on a radio program saying he doesn't believe there are "good" bacteria. A sterile gut would be best. Interesting, as like you mention, we have been taught differently.
A sterile gut might be ideal, but is utterly and completely impractical and impossible to maintain outside a bubble in a lab. This has been discussed a lot around the forum.

My belief is that absent being able to maintain the ideal, maintaining the second best option is preferable. Second best option being a good ratio of more beneficial bacteria to the bad ones.
 

Xisca

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I just listened to Ray Peat on a radio program saying he doesn't believe there are "good" bacteria. A sterile gut would be best. Interesting, as like you mention, we have been taught differently.
But that's the GUT, not the colon!
Of course we need sterile gut, but we cannnot have a sterile colon. So the best there is to have good ones...
When you cannot eat RS, it just means you lack the good guys to deal with prebiotics.
More over, this makes some extra calories that can be absorbed from the colon. And then, no hunger nor stress in the last part of the night.

It might explain why some people crave starches for supper, they are lucky enough to be able to make profit of RS....
 

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