Confession -- Forgot About Peating

[DavidGardner]

Lately I've shifted away from Peat towards more standard, prescribed nutritional recommendations. I.e., more starch, less sugar, omega-3s, and lots of fiber. Honestly, I haven't given much thought to Peating in the past several months. On the positive side, sleep has improved, probably due to maintaining high carbohydrate and shorter day lengths. I seem to sleep more on starch than sugar. The biggest negative is a sense of nerve damage. Shaking limbs, feeling mentally numb, intolerance to stress, anxiety. I've always had difficulty understanding endotoxin--could these be symptoms?

I know my nicotine intake does not help, I use snus 4-6 times daily. Can't handle as much caffeine as I used to either. Lithium, coconut oil, and vitamin C seem to help. DHEA, pregnenolone, and progesterone no longer seem as effective, possibly due to estrogenized hormonal state. I'm still consistent about taking 12 g of glycine most days, sometimes also 2 g taurine. Can't handle NSAIDs at all due to ulcers.

I know I need to radically change my diet, any other recommendations or insights?

 

[schultz]

On the positive side, sleep has improved, probably due to maintaining high carbohydrate and shorter day lengths. I seem to sleep more on starch than sugar.

I often see on the forum that people can do well when they make a switch from sugar to starch and I wonder if it has to do with eating a bit more fat or salt, or even an increase in calories, with this type of carbohydrate. I tend not to salt fruit or add butter to my fruit when I eat it, but I always do when I eat potatoes or rice. Fat could slow the absorption of the starch and help satiate an individual.

Just some thoughts...

 

[Agent207]

This use to happens a lot with these novelty internet diets. I think most is psychotomatic; in the begining it looks like everything is improving, after some time reality takes place. Have a look at paleo as an example.

Peat learning is good -very good indeed- as an eye opener for those who cook and take lots of vegetable oils, sunflower, canola, vegetable fats, margarines... etc. For those Peat is the best lighthouse they can find. For the rest who eat in a balanced way, little to improve at best; but you could do very bad with restricting your diet because "pufa fear". This site is a very good example for that.

Beyond not overdoing on pufas, theres barely nothing new you can take advantage off. The main thing that does impact on health improvement -on dieting- is choosing more natural organic food, less processing, pastured beef/hens, avoiding toxins, etc.. thats the reality that takes place; the same scenario seen with the popular "paleo", the only thing that brings something positive from those who try it is mainly the swichting for a more healthy natural source foods, thats where the real improvement comes from. The rest is mostly a marketing or trendy screen.

Its mostly the emotion we feel when we think we discover something new, who looks fashionbable and makes us feel we're taking advantage of the mainstream, and we want it to keep it going and going. Is a seductive flow very easy to let oneself be carried along.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

You need to get off the nicotine. Nicotine should only be used in patch form and very occasionally as in once every two months for therapeutic reasons. Being caught in the daily nicotine trap is not good. I would stop all supplements. Lithium should never be taken.

 

[Giraffe]

Peat learning is good -very good indeed- as an eye opener for those who cook and take lots of vegetable oils, sunflower, canola, vegetable fats, margarines... etc. For those Peat is the best lighthouse they can find. For the rest who eat in a balanced way, little to improve at best; but you could do very bad with restricting your diet because "pufa fear".

Peat's dietary (and other) advice covers a lot more than restricting PUFA. I've seen quite amazing and unexpected benefits from making a few changes to my diet. I did already use mainly coconut oil and some butter and olive oil by that time.

This site is a very good example for that.

Maybe you should stop reading in this forum. Read Peat's articles instead and listen to his interviews.

Ray Peat
https://www.toxinless.com/peat/podcast.rss

 

[Giraffe]

Shaking limbs, feeling mentally numb, intolerance to stress, anxiety. I've always had difficulty understanding endotoxin--could these be symptoms?

It could be endotoxin related. I would also consider a lack of alkaline minerals.

 

[Such_Saturation]

You need to get off the nicotine. Nicotine should only be used in patch form and very occasionally as in once every two months for therapeutic reasons. Being caught in the daily nicotine trap is not good. I would stop all supplements. Lithium should never be taken.

Where are all these shoulds coming from?

 

[scarlettsmum]

Lately I've shifted away from Peat towards more standard, prescribed nutritional recommendations. I.e., more starch, less sugar, omega-3s, and lots of fiber. Honestly, I haven't given much thought to Peating in the past several months. On the positive side, sleep has improved, probably due to maintaining high carbohydrate and shorter day lengths. I seem to sleep more on starch than sugar. The biggest negative is a sense of nerve damage. Shaking limbs, feeling mentally numb, intolerance to stress, anxiety. I've always had difficulty understanding endotoxin--could these be symptoms?

I know my nicotine intake does not help, I use snus 4-6 times daily. Can't handle as much caffeine as I used to either. Lithium, coconut oil, and vitamin C seem to help. DHEA, pregnenolone, and progesterone no longer seem as effective, possibly due to estrogenized hormonal state. I'm still consistent about taking 12 g of glycine most days, sometimes also 2 g taurine. Can't handle NSAIDs at all due to ulcers.

I know I need to radically change my diet, any other recommendations or insights?

Have you seen this?
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/rpcs-log.12822/page-2#post-177663

There is a quote by RP sent to me explaining why some people might crave starches over sugars starting with words."her taste for starches..." So I guess liver glycogen storage needs to be worked on. I too suffer from the same problem and seek out sugar high by eating pure glucose more often than I would like in the form of bread, pasta and the occasional cake. My aim isn't to take it out of my diet completely, that would cause a stress in itself. I just don't want to rely on it so much, especially the flour products.

 

[DavidGardner]

Where are all these shoulds coming from?

Right... I don't want to turn this into a nicotine discussion thread. I've seen too many of those around here and they never end. All I have to say about quitting tobacco (cause it's not the same as just nicotine)-- easier said than done. That's a serious undertaking that can only be done when you're absolutely ready and determined.

I'm leary about lithium, which is why I rarely take it. But it does stop the shaking when all else fails. Not gonna quit all supplements, definitely not glycine, which has helped me as much as any of Peat's other dietary recommendations. I have quit taking BCAAs and beta-alanine, which were worsening my symptoms.

 

[whodathunkit]

I liquify lithium tabs and then use a dropper to put jsut a little bit in my water every day. I can't precisely titrate how much I take this way, but I just make sure I don't overdo and it seems to work. I use gallons of distilled for my water supply, BTW, and remineralize with sea salt and some other things. It's not ideal but the water supply here is way too crappy to drink from the tap...I don't even trust just filters.

Anyway, I like lithium. I think it's one thing that really helped get me out of chronic, lifelong dysthymia. However, too much will depress thyroid quickly. Even 5mg/day is too much for me and for a lot of people. The mainstream recs for 10mg+ per day always me. It's powerful stuff...gotta microdose. But it's definitely a help if you suffer from mood disorders.

I think some non-PUFA starch is okay. I eat white rice, potatoes, or sweet potatoes daily, and after doing a short course of abx and a prolonged course of candida killers over the summer, my gut is (finally!) doing pretty darn good. Straight Peat doesn't satisfy me in the way that adding starch to my diet does. IMO key is to get a good balance of good bacteria in the gut. Also, eating clean. IMO processed foods probably harbor a lot of bad bacteria and funguses like candida, and because they're "preserved" to extend shelf life, if we eat processed we're eating these bad microbes at subclinical levels. Subclinical because it's not a big enough dose at any one time to make us sick, but over time the cumulative effect of the bad mircrobes colonizing the gut will show up. I watched this in my mother (late '70's) who never had gut problems or poop problems in her life, but after my dad died she switched from eating fresh food to a lot of processed food, and in about two years developed a fairly bad case of IBSD that is still ongoing. It's ongoing because she is not willing to undertake the measures necessary to make things right...she's still hung up on how things used to be when eating a few good meals were enough to put her back on track if she went off the rails a little bit. She rebels against taking supps or abx or god forbid the outre candida measures like turpentine.

@Such_Saturation I'm very sorry about the word count here. I simply can't help myself. I hope your retinas survive intact.

 

[Such_Saturation]

 

[EIRE24]

I liquify lithium tabs and then use a dropper to put jsut a little bit in my water every day. I can't precisely titrate how much I take this way, but I just make sure I don't overdo and it seems to work. I use gallons of distilled for my water supply, BTW, and remineralize with sea salt and some other things. It's not ideal but the water supply here is way too crappy to drink from the tap...I don't even trust just filters.

Anyway, I like lithium. I think it's one thing that really helped get me out of chronic, lifelong dysthymia. However, too much will depress thyroid quickly. Even 5mg/day is too much for me and for a lot of people. The mainstream recs for 10mg+ per day always me. It's powerful stuff...gotta microdose. But it's definitely a help if you suffer from mood disorders.

I think some non-PUFA starch is okay. I eat white rice, potatoes, or sweet potatoes daily, and after doing a short course of abx and a prolonged course of candida killers over the summer, my gut is (finally!) doing pretty darn good. Straight Peat doesn't satisfy me in the way that adding starch to my diet does. IMO key is to get a good balance of good bacteria in the gut. Also, eating clean. IMO processed foods probably harbor a lot of bad bacteria and funguses like candida, and because they're "preserved" to extend shelf life, if we eat processed we're eating these bad microbes at subclinical levels. Subclinical because it's not a big enough dose at any one time to make us sick, but over time the cumulative effect of the bad mircrobes colonizing the gut will show up. I watched this in my mother (late '70's) who never had gut problems or poop problems in her life, but after my dad died she switched from eating fresh food to a lot of processed food, and in about two years developed a fairly bad case of IBSD that is still ongoing. It's ongoing because she is not willing to undertake the measures necessary to make things right...she's still hung up on how things used to be when eating a few good meals were enough to put her back on track if she went off the rails a little bit. She rebels against taking supps or abx or god forbid the outre candida measures like turpentine.

@Such_Saturation I'm very sorry about the word count here. I simply can't help myself. I hope your retinas survive intact.

What abx did you use and was turpentine what killed off the candida?

 

[whodathunkit]

Believe it or not, I feel that about my own posts sometimes, too. It's like a motive force outside myself is typing. I can't help meself.

 

[whodathunkit]

I used amoxicillin because it's broad spectrum and what I had available. It was an old prescription because of a dental surgery about 1.5 years ago, filled but never used. Sat in a drawer for a "just in case". If I had to buy abx specifically to do this I would do research to try to figure out what's best. Amoxicillin is supposed to be very strong, and has a very broad action, and it may not be the best choice. It might, but might not.

Turpentine is a solvent, hence its traditional use for thinning oil paints. Theory is that it also dissolves biofilms, which candida and some other organisms create to live in (think of pond scum, only in your body ). Biofilm is protective for these organisms, and to take the theory further, once the biofilm is gone then other measures like abx (in the case of bacteria) or antifungals (in the case of candida) can get to these microbes and kill them. Theory seems to have been proven true, at least in my case.

Turpentine is also supposed to be a vermifuge (dewormer), killing some parasites and maybe also outright killing some microbes, aside from what it does to biofilm. But I can't speak to that, only that turpentine is a valuable adjunct to correcting gut dysbiosis.

Worth noting is that you're only supposed to use a teaspoon of turpentine a couple times per week. I used it more frequently but definitely go cautiously with it. It's powerful stuff. Interesting when your poos smells like pine trees, though.

If you want a good run-down on how to tackle candida, take a look at this book

Candida: Killing So Sweetly: Proven Home Remedies to Conquer Fungus and Yeast Infection

I'm not on board with the diet recs cuz I don't think diet has a whole lot of effect on candida (unless you're shoveling 10's of tablespoons of granulated sugar or liters of coke into your hole every day, in which case you need to stop for a LOT of reasons, not just candida). But the rest of the book is pretty good, and the antifungal measures like turpentine, pau d'arco, oil of oregano, and methylene blue, etc., seemed to work very well.

 

[ReSTART]

Would you like the screen down David?

 

[EIRE24]

I used amoxicillin because it's broad spectrum and what I had available. It was an old prescription because of a dental surgery about 1.5 years ago, filled but never used. Sat in a drawer for a "just in case". If I had to buy abx specifically to do this I would do research to try to figure out what's best. Amoxicillin is supposed to be very strong, and has a very broad action, and it may not be the best choice. It might, but might not.

Turpentine is a solvent, hence its traditional use for thinning oil paints. Theory is that it also dissolves biofilms, which candida and some other organisms create to live in (think of pond scum, only in your body ). Biofilm is protective for these organisms, and to take the theory further, once the biofilm is gone then other measures like abx (in the case of bacteria) or antifungals (in the case of candida) can get to these microbes and kill them. Theory seems to have been proven true, at least in my case.

Turpentine is also supposed to be a vermifuge (dewormer), killing some parasites and maybe also outright killing some microbes, aside from what it does to biofilm. But I can't speak to that, only that turpentine is a valuable adjunct to correcting gut dysbiosis.

Worth noting is that you're only supposed to use a teaspoon of turpentine a couple times per week. I used it more frequently but definitely go cautiously with it. It's powerful stuff. Interesting when your poos smells like pine trees, though.

If you want a good run-down on how to tackle candida, take a look at this book

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0982896387/?tag=rapefo-20

I'm not on board with the diet recs cuz I don't think diet has a whole lot of effect on candida (unless you're shoveling 10's of tablespoons of granulated sugar or liters of coke into your hole every day, in which case you need to stop for a LOT of reasons, not just candida). But the rest of the book is pretty good, and the antifungal measures like turpentine, pau d'arco, oil of oregano, and methylene blue, etc., seemed to work very well.

Thanks for the reply, explains a lot. My problem is acne which I'm unsure is a side effect of candida? I think it's a gut issue but definitely cannot be sure? I'd love to try an abx but again, if I'm unsure it's a gut issue then taking the abx could make matters worse.

 

[charlie]

10 hail Peatys, 17 pinches of salt over your left shoulder, anoint yourself with coconut oil and all will be forgiven.

 

[whodathunkit]

I'd love to try an abx but again, if I'm unsure it's a gut issue then taking the abx could make matters worse.

My take on abx is they can be good or bad. Like most things. Abx doesn't discriminate between good and bad bacteria when it kills...it kills them all. Then it's up to you to ensure that the beneficial bacteria achieve and sustain the upper hand.

If you take abx and then put a bunch of rancid PUFA, processed, shelf-stable preserved food into your body after you take it, then you're probably going to be a lot worse off and wind up with a really poor ratio of good : bad gut bacteria.

But if you take abx and then put healthy, whole food into your body, you're probably going to be okay. You may also need some beneficial probiotics, which I also used after I got done with the abx. Probiotic can be a dirty word around here but they helped me a lot and I think many people need them. But they're not a forever measure. Episodic only.

IMO the key to gut health is a clean food supply. Which means no processed, preserved crap, esp. after killing a bunch of gut flora with abx.

 

[DavidGardner]

Wow. OK, so here's the update. Ate moderate amounts of protein, carbs from fruit, honey, and sugar, plus coconut oil. Until tonight. I just broke down and ate oatmeal and the rest of my Ezekiel bread with pumpkin butter--woops, had to get rid of it somehow. Today, definitely an improvement. No trembling, anxiety occurred only for a short time in the morning. Oh and carrot sticks. I think endotoxin from excessive starch could be largely to blame, but I have difficulty not eating starches at night. I just have no desire for fruit at night and really start to crave starches from 6 - 8 pm. The only substitute I have found that satisfies is ice cream, but that gets expensive. I may cook white rice with coconut oil tomorrow to avoid eating bread or fibrous starches like oats. Any other sugar alternatives that are really filling?

 

[whodathunkit]

I may cook white rice with coconut oil tomorrow to avoid eating bread or fibrous starches like oats. Any other sugar alternatives that are really filling?

I like cold white rice with some coconut oil, pickled ginger (Ginger People Pickled Ginger, yum), and seaweed flakes. Doubleplus good if you eat it with shrimp. Ginger People pickled ginger is made with real sugar, not HFCS. Chilling the white rice has the advantage of making resistant starch, which can actually get down into the long stretches of the colon. Supposed to be good for the good guys to feed on. But without the additional problems that just fiber can cause in the small intestine. Works for me. Others' mileage may vary.