Coming Off Steroids, Help Would Be Great

[Kibs]

OK guys not sure if this is the right place to post if not mods please move.

OK been using testosterone about 2 years nothing mad regarding dose, pretty much trt doses, I was very much Into the bodybuilding scene, was into bodybuilding for years and now have realy changed my views on fitness, nutrition, life e.t.c

Was basically eating a whole farm of animals a day, very little veg, no fruit. U turned months ago and went plant based then peaty and along with that views on life, exercise, health, supplements.

Sorry for the novel but venting a bit I suppose, now I want more kids and as silly as it sounds I want to me more of a role model to my child and the others hopefuly to come. I dont want to be dependant on a vial every week and feel even though trt could be a possibility in the future I would rather not need it and keep my test levels normal the natural healthy way.

So looking for any knowledgeable people that's could give me some tips on anything from supps to food or anything else. I have looked into the pct methods for this and will be using them but as you folk probably know the bodybuilding forums are a bit behind the times. I know this forum might not have much knowledge regarding this as it a bit off topic here I suppose. Thanks folks.

 

[Constatine]

I think you came to the right place. We talk about androgens all day here. First off what type of diet do you eat now? A diet high in Vitamin A (or supplemented as retinol) along with plenty of sunlight will help support steroid production of all sorts (not just androgens). Eating a good amount of cholesterol and saturated fats will obviously help as well. Supporting the thyroid is important as well, especially for 5-are derived androgens. All fat soluble vitamins aid steroid production in some manner. A high mineral diet is very beneficial for androgens (I recommend shilajit for general health).

 

[Regina]

I think you came to the right place. We talk about androgens all day here. First off what type of diet do you eat now? A diet high in Vitamin A (or supplemented as retinol) along with plenty of sunlight will help support steroid production of all sorts (not just androgens). Eating a good amount of cholesterol and saturated fats will obviously help as well. Supporting the thyroid is important as well, especially for 5-are derived androgens. All fat soluble vitamins aid steroid production in some manner. A high mineral diet is very beneficial for androgens (I recommend shilajit for general health).

Constatine, Is shilajit a fulvic acid? And thus, a "heavy-metal chelator"?

 

[Kibs]

I think you came to the right place. We talk about androgens all day here. First off what type of diet do you eat now? A diet high in Vitamin A (or supplemented as retinol) along with plenty of sunlight will help support steroid production of all sorts (not just androgens). Eating a good amount of cholesterol and saturated fats will obviously help as well. Supporting the thyroid is important as well, especially for 5-are derived androgens. All fat soluble vitamins aid steroid production in some manner. A high mineral diet is very beneficial for androgens (I recommend shilajit for general health).

Great :) need some support I'm kinda sh***ing myself to be honest coming off. Gonna look into shilajit now. My diet is high vitamin a, has been the last few months anyway. No vit a supps, do you think I should add this? Possibly e too. Sunshine is an issue, I work from 08.00 to 20.00 6-7 days a week right now and it's scotland so even when not working it's normally raining or cloudy, very little sunshine here lol. Been taking 10,000iu of vitamin d for a year or 2 now.

I'm taking b3, b12, vit d, mk4, magnesium + caffeine/taurine/msm and t3.

Any suggestions to make this more complete. Thinking focusing on raising dopamine while comming off would be a Good idea.

 

[JoeKool]

When was your last injection ? Are you looking for herbal supplements only to boost test production?

Tribulus, pine pollen, daa are all safe.

5aDHP is helpful for allo if you think you'll benefit

 

[Constatine]

Great :) need some support I'm kinda sh***ing myself to be honest coming off. Gonna look into shilajit now. My diet is high vitamin a, has been the last few months anyway. No vit a supps, do you think I should add this? Possibly e too. Sunshine is an issue, I work from 08.00 to 20.00 6-7 days a week right now and it's scotland so even when not working it's normally raining or cloudy, very little sunshine here lol. Been taking 10,000iu of vitamin d for a year or 2 now.

I'm taking b3, b12, vit d, mk4, magnesium + caffeine/taurine/msm and t3.

Any suggestions to make this more complete. Thinking focusing on raising dopamine while comming off would be a Good idea.

Vitamin a from a supplement or liver. Raising dopamine will definitely be androgenic. Consider getting a red light device if you lack sun exposure.

 

[Iron Man]

This is interesting... I feel that I keep hitting a dead end on this forum with the topic of bodybuilding and supplementation. I feel that there is a real need to discuss some honest, viable and safe alternatives to the steroids in the mainstream. Is there some sort of anabolic/androgenic stack that Kibs can take, that is safe and more Peat friendly? Is it possible for him to replace what he was taking with something much safer?

 

[Kibs]

Vitamin a from a supplement or liver. Raising dopamine will definitely be androgenic. Consider getting a red light device if you lack sun exposure.

Liver for some reason does awful things to my stomach but if only eating once a week or so I could deal with it. Can you recommend a vitamin a supplement, or what to look for as it's one supp I've not paid attention too. Actualy have been looking into red light.

 

[Kibs]

When was your last injection ? Are you looking for herbal supplements only to boost test production?

Tribulus, pine pollen, daa are all safe.

5aDHP is helpful for allo if you think you'll benefit

A week ago, now before that I'd missed injections by about 4 weeks due to funds and this is what realy got me delving into why am I doing this anymore, I was feeling very tired and sleeping allot and this does happen when coming off. I wish I'd not injected again but that one shot after 4 weeks of nothing ain't gonna be in my system long anyway, I'm going into a pct protocol as off Monday and I will deal with the tiredness, it's gonna fly by, I have things to keep me busy.

 

[Kibs]

This is interesting... I feel that I keep hitting a dead end on this forum with the topic of bodybuilding and supplementation. I feel that there is a real need to discuss some honest, viable and safe alternatives to the steroids in the mainstream. Is there some sort of anabolic/androgenic stack that Kibs can take, that is safe and more Peat friendly? Is it possible for him to replace what he was taking with something much safer?

I'm glad folk are interested. You know I think hard work, proper diet and supplements nailed down will achieve a much more pleasing look than what steroids can. Before when I was training naturaly I looked great, dabbled with t3 and looked awesome then I took steroids and honestly I just looked awful but I was bigger. Thing is what we see in photos shoots and ***t are bodybuilders depleted of everything to look shredded, 90% of the time there a big watery mess, a few friends of mine look like ***t right up until they cut for a show or to go on holiday e.t.c yeah there arms look great in a shirt but underneath it's a big water protruded stomach. Sorry ranted a bit there and I'm not saying all steroid users look this way but from what I've seen and witnessed.

 

[Iron Man]

I'm glad folk are interested. You know I think hard work, proper diet and supplements nailed down will achieve a much more pleasing look than what steroids can. Before when I was training naturaly I looked great, dabbled with t3 and looked awesome then I took steroids and honestly I just looked awful but I was bigger. Thing is what we see in photos shoots and ***t are bodybuilders depleted of everything to look shredded, 90% of the time there a big watery mess, a few friends of mine look like ***t right up until they cut for a show or to go on holiday e.t.c yeah there arms look great in a shirt but underneath it's a big water protruded stomach. Sorry ranted a bit there and I'm not saying all steroid users look this way but from what I've seen and witnessed.

I would be interested in chatting to you some more about this. I hear your story (not that I am judging or anything) and this is what makes me want to look into realistic and safe alternatives. I have been natural all the way along in bodybuilding and I have been working out off and on since I was 15 or so. Now that I am in my early 40's and after coming across this forum, androgens and hormones have really peaked my interest. I am definitely willing to experiment, but only within the realms of what is discussed here or what Haidut endorses. I have been lifting weights a long time now and I know how long it takes to put on true muscle naturally. Around my part of the world, I see these young "kids" bigger than me and there is no way that they could have been training more than 2-3 years, so they have to be on some gear. Personally, I think it is rampant. Again, I am not judging anyone here... I just feel that this is sport is huge and it is growing. I wish more research was done on safer alternatives (ones that actually work).
How long have you been on the gear Kibs? In my opinion, the body is quite forgiving (within reason) and with some time, it can right some wrongs (again, within reason).

 

[TubZy]

I never used steroids that had estrogenic effects (besides a low dose of test prop). Mainly masteron, anavar, superdrol, proviron, which is probably why you've seen me talk about hair issues before lol. Not only are the side effects less and the "look" is more preferable, at least to me, but it makes recovery way easier as estrogen is more suppressive on the HPTA. I have even went times before without taking PCT and recovered fine naturally (genetics? lifestyle?) this was prior to taking fin, while drinking loads of alcohol and eating crappy food.

But now, if I were to do another cycle, I would do 150mg of preg and 5mg of dhea for post cycle and while on, along with the typical peat diet and maybe a few other things like taurine which was shown to help prevent shutdown from steroids and also glycine, caffeine and aspirin with of course all of the fat soluble vitamins.

 

[Iron Man]

I never used steroids that had estrogenic effects (besides a low dose of test prop). Mainly masteron, anavar, superdrol, proviron, which is probably why you've seen me talk about hair issues before lol. Not only are the side effects less and the "look" is more preferable, at least to me, but it makes recovery way easier as estrogen is more suppressive on the HPTA. I have even went times before without taking PCT and recovered fine naturally (genetics? lifestyle?) this was prior to taking fin.

But now, if I were to do another cycle, I would do 150mg of preg and 5mg of dhea for post cycle and while on, along with the typical peat diet and maybe a few other things like taurine which was shown to help prevent shutdown from steroids and also glycine, caffeine and aspirin with of course all of the fat soluble vitamins.

Are you saying that you would still go another round of Anavar and the like, even in light of the Ray Peat approach to health and nutrition?

 

[TubZy]

Are you saying that you would still go another round of Anavar and the like, even in light of the Ray Peat approach to health and nutrition?

Yes, well me personally, I don't follow peat religiously anyways, more of a basis. I mean Peat is against all AAS and even TRT, if I remember correctly.

So if he said anavar is bad or masteron is bad etc. that won't change my mind in the end, I would just take stronger precautions prior and during/post etc. if you know what I mean. Peat isn't in favor of endurance sports either like long running, and soccer can fall into that category too, which I also play, so again I personally don't follow Peat to a T.

If you put it in a different light, those steroids are actually more Peat "friendly" since they are not necessarily estrogenic, obviously not saying they are healthy, but much more milder.

I think a lot of people here follow Peat, but don't necessarily agree with every little thing he says, even haidut included. More of figuring out what works best for you.

 

[Iron Man]

Yes, well me personally, I don't follow peat religiously anyways, more of a basis. I mean Peat is against all AAS and even TRT, if I remember correctly.

So if he said anavar is bad or masteron is bad etc. that won't change my mind in the end, I would just take stronger precautions prior and during/post etc. if you know what I mean. Peat isn't in favor of endurance sports either like long running, and soccer can fall into that category too, which I also play, so again I personally don't follow Peat to a T.

If you put it in a different light, those steroids are actually more Peat "friendly" since they are not necessarily estrogenic, obviously not saying they are healthy, but much more milder.

I think a lot of people here follow Peat, but don't necessarily agree with every little thing he says, even haidut included. More of figuring out what works best for you.

Fair enough... So what are the best alternatives from Idealabs or elsewhere for someone cautious, but wanting decent results?
What is the best way to re-calibrate the body's natural functions in Kib's case?

 

[TubZy]

Fair enough... So what are the best alternatives from Idealabs or elsewhere for someone cautious, but wanting decent results?
What is the best way to re-calibrate the body's natural functions in Kib's case?

Well, I'm happy to tell you that you have plenty of options lol.

The biggest issue when coming off for PCT is the rise in estrogen, cortisol and prolactin, even serotonin. So anything that opposes any of those will be beneficial not only for coming off steroids but in the long run as well to help maintain gains whether you cycle or not.

So you have a bunch of options, I would search the "ideal labs" part of the forum for kuinone (K2), tocovit (vitamin E), estroban, androsterone, 11 keto DHT, pansterone (preg/dhea) etc.

The non ideal labs stuff that is also beneficial would be naltrexone and of course cynomel/T3.

You literally have so many options as all of the pro peat supplements all fall in the line about what I mentioned above about opposing cortisol, estrogen, prolactin and serotonin. That reasoning is what actually got me into Peat's stuff in the first place, b/c I agreed with many of those things here and there (i.e DHT is good etc.) but had not real reasoning or understanding behind it.

I would say if you are into the DHT type stuff and check out the androsterone and 11 keto DHT and/or pansterone (DHEA/preg). They provide some similar/minor results to some of the AAS I mentioned, but at a safer option, at least in my experience.

 

[Iron Man]

Well, I'm happy to tell you that you have plenty of options lol.

The biggest issue when coming off for PCT is the rise in estrogen, cortisol and prolactin, even serotonin. So anything that opposes any of those will be beneficial not only for coming off steroids but in the long run as well to help maintain gains whether you cycle or not.

So you have a bunch of options, I would search the "ideal labs" part of the forum for kuinone (K2), tocovit (vitamin E), estroban, androsterone, 11 keto DHT, pansterone (preg/dhea) etc.

The non ideal labs stuff that is also beneficial would be naltrexone and of course cynomel/T3.

You literally have so many options as all of the pro peat supplements all fall in the line about what I mentioned above about opposing cortisol, estrogen, prolactin and serotonin. That reasoning is what actually got my into Peat's stuff in the first place, b/c I agreed with many of those things here and there (i.e DHT is good etc.) but had not real reasoning or understanding behind it.

I would say if you are into the DHT type stuff and check out the androsterone and 11 keto DHT and/or pansterone (DHEA/preg). The provide some similar minor results to some of the AAS, but at a safer option.

Thanks for that! What kind of dosages are we talking and is this the kind of thing that Kibs could jump straight onto to help him come off the AAS?

 

[Constatine]

Liver for some reason does awful things to my stomach but if only eating once a week or so I could deal with it. Can you recommend a vitamin a supplement, or what to look for as it's one supp I've not paid attention too. Actualy have been looking into red light.

Liver degrades quickly due to an abundance of emzyes in it. Most liver from stores is rotten liver. Make sure a vitamin a supplement is not carotene. Anything else would be fine.

 

[Kibs]

TubZy a great deal of information there, very grateful and looking into it now :)

Can I ask when you have done pct what you have used?

 

[Kibs]

I have strayed off no Fap allot and intend to stick to it through pct as morning wood from what I've read is a good indicator of returning back to normal.